POLL - which coins are scams as defined in the OP?

[TPTB_need_war]

Instead make solid arguments as to why the altcoins in this list are not scams per the definition provided. You can't, loser.

Name calling don't improve your reputation, you should reconsider your tactics, unless you post for the sake of posting.

I speak factually to trolls, else I don't speak at all (which would be wiser yet I do a service for the community here as a sacrifice from my time to code and do professional endeavors).

And you are trolling me in this thread.

[TPTB_need_war]

Decentralized file storage block chains are entirely flawed and only a completely clueless fool wouldn't realize it:

Whoops. This is why technological idiots shouldn't be investing in technology they don't understand.

You are investing in something which has an insoluble technical flaw and can't work:

7.   the largest file swapping service company is Florincoin (The Alexandria Project)

Inoramus, don't you know that all these decentralized file storage systems (including Sia, Storj, Florincoin, etc) can't work because I explained that proof-of-storage (a.k.a. proof-of-retrievability) is nonsense because anyone can pretend to be running many nodes and keep it all stored on one node. Thus Sybil attacking the system and cheating its economics and data retention resiliency.

MaidSafe is a scam. Even the claimed anonymity is technical bullshit.

I am so tired of this forum and endless stream of new ignoramuses who join this forum. I am not paid to reteach all of you fools! I would never fix the problems by coding if I spent all my time teaching all of you.

5 Proof of Storage

Storage proof transactions are periodically submitted
in order to fulll le contracts. Each storage proof
targets a specic le contract.

So a single entity can pretend to be many nodes, and Sybil sign and fulfill many such contracts on the same data, yet the client pays for more backup copies but only gets the resiliency of one backup copy.

As well, that entity might just short the Sia coin and then disconnect all his nodes and destroy the coin.

This is a fucking mess. And I can't believe that idiots are investing in these decentralized storage shit coins. How stupid are these guys on these forums.  

7.4 Basic Reputation System

Clients need a reliable method for picking quality
hosts. Analyzing their history is insucient, because
the history could be spoofed. A host could repeat-
edly form contracts with itself, agreeing to store large
\fake" les, such as a le containing only zeros. It
would be trivial to perform storage proofs on such
data without actually storing anything.

To mitigate this Sybil attack, clients can require
that hosts that announce themselves in the arbitrary
data section also include a large volume of time locked
coins. If 10 coins are time locked 14 days into the
future, then the host can be said to have created a
lock valued at 140 coin-days. By favoring hosts that
have created high-value locks, clients can mitigate the
risk of Sybil attacks, as valuable locks are not trivial
to create.

Same as for proof-of-stake deposits, this only has to be deposited once yet can be used to Sybil attack unbounded number of clients ongoing.

And shorting the coin can be more profitable than the deposit staked.

Reputation systems devolve to centralization winner-take-all paradigms due to the power vacuum created by the security hole (the potential to attack the coin and/or clients).

...later financially connected to Bitcoin via a two-way peg...

Also Side-chains are a flawed mess.

I do ask that you don't smear insults throughout your posts because it makes it difficult to see your technical arguments and distracts from your core points.

It adds no difficulty. Don't be disingenuous.

It is because after 10,000+ posts, an endless stream of idiots causes me to have to repeat the same technical points over and over and over and over and over and over...

The insults are intended to shame them into doing some reading before posting or investing. After 10,000+ posts, I think I deserve to express such frustration. If you don't, you are free to ignore me.

The second problem is that you are citing some pretty old information about how Sia works, and you are missing some important details that help bring the system together and secure it.

It doesn't matter. The issue I cited is insoluble. You will never find a technical solution. Ever.

The first technical argument you make is that "anyone can pretend to be running many nodes and keep it all stored on one node". I'm not sure if you are talking about a deduplication attack here, or just a standard Sybil attack.

Sybil attack as I had stated. I never mentioned deduplication.

The Sybil attack is, in my qualified opinion, the weakest part of the Sia protocol. But we do have sufficient defense against it, and that comes in the form of proof-of-burn.

Nope. I already explained why staking (analogously burning) doesn't provide sufficient security.

Also you talk about shorting a coin and then using the money raised from shorting it to attack it. You would need to buy the short from somewhere, and you'd need enough money to both buy the shorts and then have enough to do the proof-of-burn. I'm doubting that someone would let you short a massive volume of some asset, if you are shorting that much they would probably get suspicious.

An illiquid coin is rather useless. If that is your goal, then you are stating it won't be widely adopted.

Edit: note that shorting isn't required to break the economic model for the security. The staked (deposited and risked) or burned coins can be offset by earnings and in fact must be, otherwise no one will be a storage provider.

Also I was the one who invented proof-of-storage in 2013. I abandoned it because the Sybil attack is insoluble. I am the inventor of the shit.

[Come-from-Beyond]

And you are trolling me in this thread.

If pointing to your incorrect behavior is trolling - yes, I'm trolling you in this thread.

[TPTB_need_war]

And you are trolling me in this thread.

If pointing to your incorrect behavior is trolling

Define incorrect behavior.

I see my behavior was correct. I see your behavior is incorrect.

You are posting noise. (Noise is defined as not relevant to the topic of this thread. You could start a Meta thread about politically correct double-speak if you wish).

[cryptohunter]

And you are trolling me in this thread.

If pointing to your incorrect behavior is trolling - yes, I'm trolling you in this thread.

Hmmm 15 votes for IOTA and it's not even released? this does not look good.


After NXT you should have learned that people will not forget poor initial distribution. Like the devs and a relative handful of people owning all the coins.
When I see 30x price being demanded and set in stone as the new price for something that is still not out then I know the ICO was not made available to all. If you don't know about it then it is not really available to you!

30X ico price?? that's = ethereum and IOTA is not released and on exchange. HYPE?? Let's all start using it before we recognise it as deserving that kind of market cap.
This supply and demand issue on the board suggests either everyone had a sudden change of opinion or they didn't know about the ICO.


Look at LISK (i'm not commenting on the tech or advising people invest that is up to them) this is how you make an effort to advertise and run an ICO.

You can't go one page on this forum without 5 huge lisk banners.
Facebook and twitter rewards for social advertising.


If not a scam then a poor effort considering your background and knowledge in this field and on this board. All I can see so far is a small group of people hyping and pumping.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Define incorrect behavior.

Not going to explain obvious things. Also we are derailing this thread.

[TPTB_need_war]

Also we areI am derailing this thread.

[slapper]

Look at LISK (i'm not commenting on the tech or advising people invest that is up to them) this is how you make an effort to advertise and run an ICO.

You can't go one page on this forum without 5 huge lisk banners.
Facebook and twitter rewards for social advertising.


If not a scam then a poor effort considering your background and knowledge in this field and on this board. All I can see so far is a small group of people hyping and pumping.

LISK is just like all other ICOs, a crap and a cancer. It was, is and will always be a shitcoin. Yes I know you shills are going to make some profit.

[altcoinUK]

Hmmm 15 votes for IOTA and it's not even released? this does not look good.

IOTA is a blatant scam, a pure P&D operation, just like LISK. This thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1354220.300 explains all. You can also see the IOTA sockpuppets, shills and developers in full force in that thread.

[qwizzie]

i think we are still missing one cryptocurrency to vote over, which is of course your own cryptocurrency TPTB.
so lets just reset the poll and include your concept coin as well, i'm sure we all have opinions about it.

i'm also thinking about creating my own poll : "Do we have enough polls in this altcoin discussion section that define possible scam coins?"
a simple yes and no option should be sufficient here i think 

[r0ach]

Well, if you want to use a logical benchmark for determining exactly what the hell a "decentralized currency" is, it would likely be one where the block reward or coin issuance is independent from it's creator.  Ones that don't fit those conditions would probably fall under centralized businesses or just flat out scams.

[TPTB_need_war]

qwizzie the known #1 Dash pumper (and thus scammer),

i think we are still missing one cryptocurrency to vote over, which is of course your own cryptocurrency TPTB.
so lets just reset the poll and include your concept coin as well, i'm sure we have opinions about it.

The definition in the OP requires tokens to be for sale. I have no tokens for sale.

I know you Dash thieves don't like clear logic.

[Come-from-Beyond]

IOTA is a blatant scam, a pure P&D operation, just like LISK. This thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1354220.300 explains all. You can also see the IOTA sockpuppets, shills and developers in full force in that thread.

You have returned to your standard tactics. Looks like you have accepted that noone believed in your "I contacted law enforcements of all jurisdictions" bullshit. I hope it wasn't very harmful to your ego.

[qwizzie]

qwizzie the known #1 Dash pumper (and thus scammer),

i think we are still missing one cryptocurrency to vote over, which is of course your own cryptocurrency TPTB.
so lets just reset the poll and include your concept coin as well, i'm sure we have opinions about it.

The definition in the OP requires tokens to be for sale. I have no tokens for sale.

I know you Dash thieves don't like clear logic.

i wish i could pump Dash the way you think i can, i would lead a much more comfortable life that way  

Sorry TPTB, i'm no pumper and most certainly no scammer. I'm a bit disappointed in your reply to be honest,
i guess honesty is going down the drain when competition and posting on the internet is involved...

[TPTB_need_war]

IOTA is a blatant scam, a pure P&D operation, just like LISK. This thread at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1354220.300 explains all. You can also see the IOTA sockpuppets, shills and developers in full force in that thread.

You have returned to your standard tactics.

Note I asked CfB if we could be contacts on LinkedIn, and he doesn't maintain a LinkedIn profile. What professional programmer these days doesn't maintain a LinkedIn profile. For public figure and to have a solid reputation, I think this is a must. Who is this David that is the principle behind Iota? What is his history and background?

This altcoin arena is dominated by scams because we don't demand that the lead developers are public figures and responsible for opening themselves up to scrutiny. We have no idea what these developers have accomplished in the real world over their careers.

I became more amenable to Monero, when fluffypony was shown on video recently at the Satoshi Roundtable. But I still lack information about the Monero devs backgrounds and history.

I think we should all demand our developers come out from the shadows and put themselves at-risk of public scruntiny.


Edit: the major pumpers of a coin, e.g. qwizzie, should also make their LinkedIn profiles available. Does Evan @ Dash have a LinkedIn profile?

[cryptohunter]

Look at LISK (i'm not commenting on the tech or advising people invest that is up to them) this is how you make an effort to advertise and run an ICO.

You can't go one page on this forum without 5 huge lisk banners.
Facebook and twitter rewards for social advertising.


If not a scam then a poor effort considering your background and knowledge in this field and on this board. All I can see so far is a small group of people hyping and pumping.

LISK is just like all other ICOs, a crap and a cancer. It was, is and will always be a shitcoin. Yes I know you shills are going to make some profit.

LISK could well turn out to be a scam based on the concept being junk. I don't know. Did i invest yes a tiny amount not worth talking about.

My point for mentioning LISK is that they are pumping the hell out of it during ICO. This is reverse scam mentality because if everyone buys in at the ICO who are you going to pump it to at inflated prices at exchange if you all have some? the tech would have to talk for itself and become desirable.

The only people that usually pump during ICO are the ones that know their product is totally shit and intend to run with the cash.
Maybe they'll do that but they are being very open about their identities if they are going that route.

I am not advocating LISK I am comparing LISKS approach to IOTA which i find like NXT's  approach.

I do not like and ICO at all. Because everyone I have ever seen except maybe nem is rigged in one of the two ways i mentioned.


1. good tech ico - poor initial distribution and strangled supply whilst pumping the tech to everyone and extracting max btc

2. no tech - pump during ico - run with funds.

Ethereum - ran a reasonable ICO by the boards standards and gave POW. I have still doubts about the tech and didn't choose to do the ICO or even buy at  $5 . However their ICO was okay but greedy for themselves.... open greed I can choose to to take or leave. Can they and their whale pals manipulate the market...of course they still can.

Well organised POW with advertised release and stringent diff adjustments , pools and all the rest can not be gamed half as bad as ICO.

I was on over 100 coins released... mining from the very start. If there were pools and loads of people ready from the outset with rapid dif adjust I don't think anyone even a botnet would be able to take more than the share of electricity they put in.

[Equilibriums]

Bitcoin   - First real p2p currency without the middelman. Works fine, but have a governance issue combined with centralised mining etc.
Ethereum   - Promises to be the first p2p smart contracts provider without the middleman. Not quite there yet, but the team and support are strong.
Ripple   - p2p payments for the banks. Works fine.
Litecoin   - Safe haven coin for the bitcoin speculators. Works fine but due to no real innovation i dont see the difference from hundreds of others, only network effect.
MaidSafeCoin - Decentralized internet. I dont think thy are quite there yet, but the idea is interesting.
Dash            - Trying to be the best bitcoin. Allready has solved 0-conf problem with its instant-x tech, robust optional anonymity, rewarded full nodes, core integrated governance and budgeting system etc. All those previously mentioned things allready in working condition, not final but still working. Many great ideas and promises for the future release.
Factom   - First decentralised p2p fully transparent accounting system for businesses etc. i dont think they are quite there yet but again strong team and support.
Dogecoin   - First successful meme currency. Works fine, but lack of innovation and depends on litecoin network.
BitShares   - Decentralized Exchange. Many good ideas and a lot allready working.
Monero   - Trying to be the best anon currency based on CN. Due to heavy trolling from monero guys i am little bit biased but i think that their tech works fine. I am not completely sure about what they added to bytecoin code. They promise to be a lot, just that trolling part combined with opaque blockchain makes me ask many questions.
NEM           - They aim to creata a new economy based on the principles of decentralization, financial freedom, and equality of opportunity. I dont think they are quite there yet. Lots of promises.

I will continue afterwards if you want put the point is that many of those so called coins are really innovating and just that they are not quite there yet doesnt make them a scam.
Take these tokens as a shares of a future product, a decentralised p2p product.
Some will deliver, some will not, thats the way of life.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Note I asked CfB if we could be contacts on LinkedIn, and he doesn't maintain a LinkedIn profile. What professional programmer these days doesn't maintain a LinkedIn profile.

Hm, first you quoted me out of the context to push your agenda that Iota is centralized. Now you implied that I'm not a professional programmer because I don't have LinkedIn profile, but you forgot to mention that I speak 7 programming languages heavily used in the industry (and this is from the same letter). I bet real AnonyMint sold his account.

[TPTB_need_war]

Ethereum   - Promises to be the first p2p smart contracts provider without the middleman. Not quite there yet, but the team and support are strong.
Ripple   - p2p payments for the banks. Works fine.
MaidSafeCoin - Decentralized internet. I dont think thy are quite there yet, but the idea is interesting.
Dash            - Trying to be the best bitcoin. Allready has solved 0-conf problem with its instant-x tech, robust optional anonymity, rewarded full nodes, core integrated governance and budgeting system etc. All those previously mentioned things allready in working condition, not final but still working. Many great ideas and promises for the future release.
Factom   - First decentralised p2p fully transparent accounting system for businesses etc. i dont think they are quite there yet but again strong team and support.
Dogecoin   - First successful meme currency. Works fine, but lack of innovation and depends on litecoin network.
BitShares   - Decentralized Exchange. Many good ideas and a lot allready working.

Lies and hype. Thus proving why they are scams.

No evidence of strong teams. Where is the career history and accomplishments.

[TPTB_need_war]

but you forgot to mention that I speak 7 programming languages heavily used in the industry

I want to see your entire career and education history so I know who you are and what you have accomplished. Anyone can claim to know several programming languages. I do too. But accomplishments are what demonstrate that someone would want to hire you.

Also to see that the people you've worked for/with in the past, do maintain a link with you on LinkedIn and thus that your career wasn't a script kiddie hacker stealing codes. And to see what sort of accomplishments the people you have worked with, have made. To get some feel for if you have been important in software.