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Question: Why should only a tiny tiny % get reasonable entry? would you like some coins at ICO price??
Yes everyone should have fair opportunity - 7 (13.2%)
I own iota and think people should pay 3000% more than i did. - 36 (67.9%)
I think it's the nxt people trying to scam us again I want nothing to do with it. - 10 (18.9%)
Total Voters: 53

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Author Topic: POLL [IOTA ]- ICO 2 -Do YOU want to buy IOTA at a reasonable price? OR BIG SCAM?  (Read 6677 times)
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Snail2
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March 22, 2016, 10:40:47 AM
 #21

1.The POW model as I described it can not realistically be easily dominated by any person or without them expending = energy per coin as anyone else. If it can then not in a great way. Your example still does not counter the version of POW I put forward. Not anywhere near the extent of an ico with no regulation or transparency. One person especially with a small ico say 50 people or 100 people could easily find numerous ways to get HUGE percentages of the total minting. Especially if it has no POW. Even a large ICO with no transparency at all the dev could take a lot of the minting there are many ways. Sending BTC to his own dev pot, making false accounts etc etc.

As far as I know there are several PoW coins are out in the wild what used the same four principles what you described above (none of those were p&d proof) but indeed the miners were able to get it for the electricity price and had the choice to dump or hold. Also, more transparency around the ICOs would be really good. But actually with an ICO everybody have the choice to invest or not, dump or hold, however some forward thinking is needed.

Anyway I still think CfB is a very good programmer with unique ideas and great expertise, but very little sense for marketing and achieving big publicity for his coins. You see, he shared all necessary info in an ANN thread, he also made an ICO thread with all the needed information, and then nothing else just coding Smiley. Personally I like more this approach than the "American style" all singing, dancing and shilling ICO/launch campaigns what we can see here, but as I have to think about my pocket too this attitude doesn't make his coins attractive for me. So, while  my "engineer myself" keep praising his work, my "greedy pig myself" will go for something else with better marketing Smiley.
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March 22, 2016, 11:22:03 AM
 #22

distributed only to 0.001% of the board

Well what can they do if 99.999% of the board doesn't care about the project. Like yourself for example, you knew about the crowdsale yet didn't participate. What they should've done more to distribute to you too? Would a sig spam campaign have done it?

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March 22, 2016, 12:06:22 PM
 #23

distributed only to 0.001% of the board

Well what can they do if 99.999% of the board doesn't care about the project. Like yourself for example, you knew about the crowdsale yet didn't participate. What they should've done more to distribute to you too? Would a sig spam campaign have done it?


Let's get it straight that I didn't know about the crowd sale. When I commented in the thread everyone who asked about the sale of tokens was told not to even ask or talk about the sale. It was like the project was going to be in the very distant future. By the time I'd checked back on it it was done and over.
Also we should be discussing it with regard the bigger picture - like everyone on the board. I'm not sure why you'd fixate on one persons experience rather than discussing the protocols that could ensure fairer and better opportunity for everyone on the board both devs and investors.

The fact is  that the smaller the ico the easier it is to game it. All icos should be advertised to the max using all possible advertising methods on here for as long as possible. There is no good reason not to do it for both the devs to get more development funds and for the board to give greater chance to research and invest.

If you can think of any good reason not to advertise the ico through sigs and social media then sure present your case.

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March 22, 2016, 12:15:41 PM
 #24

When I commented in the thread everyone who asked about the sale of tokens was told not to even ask or talk about the sale.

Looks like you missed the big fat Sale thread Link in the OP of  the main IOTA thread, it can happen.
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March 22, 2016, 12:16:59 PM
 #25

1.The POW model as I described it can not realistically be easily dominated by any person or without them expending = energy per coin as anyone else. If it can then not in a great way. Your example still does not counter the version of POW I put forward. Not anywhere near the extent of an ico with no regulation or transparency. One person especially with a small ico say 50 people or 100 people could easily find numerous ways to get HUGE percentages of the total minting. Especially if it has no POW. Even a large ICO with no transparency at all the dev could take a lot of the minting there are many ways. Sending BTC to his own dev pot, making false accounts etc etc.

As far as I know there are several PoW coins are out in the wild what used the same four principles what you described above (none of those were p&d proof) but indeed the miners were able to get it for the electricity price and had the choice to dump or hold. Also, more transparency around the ICOs would be really good. But actually with an ICO everybody have the choice to invest or not, dump or hold, however some forward thinking is needed.

Anyway I still think CfB is a very good programmer with unique ideas and great expertise, but very little sense for marketing and achieving big publicity for his coins. You see, he shared all necessary info in an ANN thread, he also made an ICO thread with all the needed information, and then nothing else just coding Smiley. Personally I like more this approach than the "American style" all singing, dancing and shilling ICO/launch campaigns what we can see here, but as I have to think about my pocket too this attitude doesn't make his coins attractive for me. So, while  my "engineer myself" keep praising his work, my "greedy pig myself" will go for something else with better marketing Smiley.

With an ICO people only have the choice to invest or not if they know about the ico. Hence why max effort to advertise is required. Also that does not stop the devs being able to buy their own to keep more of it or just to make it look like there are many investors or even just run with the funds.

It's fine if you don't like the all singing dancing shilling ICO. That's not the point though. It is surely harder for the devs to manipulate or retain a greater % of the minting the larger the ICO gets. Especially if done like NEM where you see the username and how much they have bought. Because the dev would need to create thousands of sock puppets to get 50% and inject thousands of BTC himself to get 50% but if there were only 10 people 5 sock puppets and a few btc would do it. So advertise it well let it run for as long as possible make it transparent as possible and add POW. There you have a far better ICO. Still not as good as POW though.


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March 22, 2016, 12:18:18 PM
Last edit: March 22, 2016, 12:29:25 PM by cryptohunter
 #26

When I commented in the thread everyone who asked about the sale of tokens was told not to even ask or talk about the sale.

Looks like you missed the big fat Sale thread Link in the OP of  the main IOTA thread, it can happen.

It was not there when I commented on the thread. Please re read what I said. At that point even asking about the sale was not permitted.

The strangest thing about those that invest in tokens of  questionable repute is that they lose all perspective. They will blindly argue for things that are obviously wrong like more advertising of an ICO and wider distribution and more development fund is a bad thing.

They will bump threads that are negative for their token over and over fighting over a point that is a just common sense.

I locked the other thread down so that Iota can get back to stealth mode on their ann in peace but still they chose to bump a thread that had gone to the second page. It is very strange. It is like they want more and more people to have opportunity to mull over the fact that Iota was not advertised through the main board, sigs, avatars, social media at all before or during ....but now see that the main board, sig and avatars are being used to pump and advertise it greatly now the ico is over.

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March 22, 2016, 12:29:14 PM
 #27

When I commented in the thread everyone who asked about the sale of tokens was told not to even ask or talk about the sale.

Looks like you missed the big fat Sale thread Link in the OP of  the main IOTA thread, it can happen.

It was not there when I commented on the thread. Please re read what I said. At that point even asking about the sale was not permitted.

I can't seem to find what you are talking about, can you point me to this discussion? I only see this:

quantum computer proof does sound handy Smiley and I very much like the name.

the next posts of you are from AFTER the sale, so where again were you asking about it?
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March 22, 2016, 12:42:25 PM
 #28

When I commented in the thread everyone who asked about the sale of tokens was told not to even ask or talk about the sale.

Looks like you missed the big fat Sale thread Link in the OP of  the main IOTA thread, it can happen.

It was not there when I commented on the thread. Please re read what I said. At that point even asking about the sale was not permitted.

I can't seem to find what you are talking about, can you point me to this discussion? I only see this:

quantum computer proof does sound handy Smiley and I very much like the name.

the next posts of you are from AFTER the sale, so where again were you asking about it?

That's what I'm saying it was after the sale when I came back.

The problem here is that you are trying somehow to focus on me and divert from the point in question did the ico advertise enough or last long enough?

You can't seem to understand that we are discussing the ICO advertising methods in general can you?

This is why it is obvious that you know that theICO was too stealth and too quick.

Go back and re- read the thread.

The smaller the ICO the easier it is to manipulate for the devs. The larger and more advertised it is through sig campaigns, social media, the main board etc....the harder it is to game. If you don't see why then think about it.

So therefore ICO's should not hide in their ann thread then as soon as the ico is over come to the main board and use it to pump the coin whist a few people from the ann thread hold it captive and ransom it off for 3000%

It does not matter at all if 1 person was told 100000x a day about the crowd sale and didn't buy the token. It does not change the fact that a small ICO is easier to game does it. Besides your point that I may have missed a link on the OP when I came back to the thread means nothing. I never check again the OP if i have already read the thread to a certain point.

It is pointless to try to divert the conversation to one about my personal experience with this Ico since it is about the protocol of ICO in general. Was enough done to advertise it and was it long enough considering the lack of advertising compared to other ICO like Nem, Eth, maid or lIsk. no is the answer.

The only people voting no its okay i would buy at 3000% are iota holders and the only people arguing that a stealth ico or one that does not use advertsing methods freely and easily available to them on this board and it;s then okay to pump after ico using those same methods are Iota holders. As they are the only people that will argue that black is white to protect their investment when really they know they are saying anything to get out with 3000% scam profits. There is no logic nor reason to their argument.

If there is reason to why you are saying don't advertise your ICO outside of the ann until after the ICO is over then please feel free to post your argument so we can assess it.




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March 22, 2016, 12:51:56 PM
 #29

The problem here is that you are trying somehow to focus on me

But that's what this is all about. You're saying that you weren't allowed to talk about the sale, which is not true. There was a big fat sale thread sign in the OP. Everyone talked about the sale.

AFTER the sale you appear and start talking about why the hell there is no second ICO. How could you miss it? I mean you were apparently interested before and posted before in the main thread, why did you not follow the project?
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March 22, 2016, 01:01:02 PM
 #30

The problem here is that you are trying somehow to focus on me

But that's what this is all about. You're saying that you weren't allowed to talk about the sale, which is not true. There was a big fat sale thread sign in the OP. Everyone talked about the sale.

AFTER the sale you appear and start talking about why the hell there is no second ICO. How could you miss it? I mean you were apparently interested before and posted before in the thread, why did you not follow the project?

No this is not about that. But obviously i did miss it like probably 99% of the board. Do you see the title saying should cryptohunter have free IOTA because he missed it? NO it says should IOTA have a second crowdsale for ALL people that missed the first crowdsale due to it not being mentioned on the main board with no sig campaigns and no social media. Should ALL persons who are just finding out about it now due to pumping on the main board, sigs and avatars have a chance at a second Ico.



This is about not letting NXT2 iota get away with it again. Else there will be NXT 3 and NXT4.

It is about what i wrote above

1. was the ico advertised on the main board, sig avatars etc (pumped through those mediums) only after the ICO  = yes. So should EVERYONE just finding out about it now have a chance. I would put should that have a second chance but since they probably never knew about it before it is their first chance.

Make if more fair like eth, maid, nem , lisk.

See ? starting to get it. It's not about opportunity for me personally. It is about everyone. You're only thinking about yourself hence why you dont want there to be a second ico and hence why you are arguing that the ico was fine as it was and no need to make it fairer like all the other big ico I mention above.


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March 22, 2016, 01:10:46 PM
 #31

If you can think of any good reason not to advertise the ico through sigs and social media then sure present your case.

Sig campaigns
- are annoying
- make a lot of people hate whatever you're selling

Social media advertisement
- marketing to people who don't understand that there is a possibility these systems won't even work at all and who don't even understand what they would be buying would be very irresponsible


At that point even asking about the sale was not permitted.

Because there was a separate thread dedicated for the sale and they wanted to stay on topic for that thread?
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March 22, 2016, 01:16:56 PM
 #32

If you can think of any good reason not to advertise the ico through sigs and social media then sure present your case.

Sig campaigns
- are annoying
- make a lot of people hate whatever you're selling

Social media advertisement
- marketing to people who don't understand that there is a possibility these systems won't even work at all and who don't even understand what they would be buying would be very irresponsible


At that point even asking about the sale was not permitted.

Because there was a separate thread dedicated for the sale and they wanted to stay on topic for that thread?


1 - the sig campaigns worked out great for lisk which raised nearly 20x times what iota did. Or maybe it was the main board which iota forgot about who knows?

2. social media -Hard to say how much that contributed to lisks ico... no advertising can really be classed as negative though.

3. main board??? you left that out? is that only for pumping after the ICO?


No there was no serparate thread dedicated at that time i posted. That must have come after. Again I don't wish to focus only on my experience. Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.



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March 22, 2016, 01:23:35 PM
 #33

Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.

Aye. majority of your poll thinks that the ICO is ok as it is.
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March 22, 2016, 01:29:42 PM
 #34

3. main board??? you left that out? is that only for pumping after the ICO?

IOTA threads on the main board before/during the sale (search for more if you're interested):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233568.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216553.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1273040.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1271872.0
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March 22, 2016, 02:06:57 PM
 #35

Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.

Aye. majority of your poll thinks that the ICO is ok as it is.


also nobody has voted for 2 yet that will put their name to the vote - obviously all iota holders.

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March 22, 2016, 02:21:03 PM
 #36

Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.

Aye. majority of your poll thinks that the ICO is ok as it is.


also nobody has voted for 2 yet that will put their name to the vote - obviously all iota holders.

You make no sense at all...
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March 22, 2016, 03:14:34 PM
 #37

Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.

Aye. majority of your poll thinks that the ICO is ok as it is.


also nobody has voted for 2 yet that will put their name to the vote - obviously all iota holders.

You make no sense at all...

I'm sorry you don't understand

option 2 - if you vote option 2 your are meant to comment on the thread that you voted option 2. That is because the poll is not there for iota holders to vote that they think it's good for people to buy their iota for 3000% mark up.It is only iota holders voting for option 2 because they don't want to leave their name on the thread.

Does that help?

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March 22, 2016, 03:16:58 PM
 #38

3. main board??? you left that out? is that only for pumping after the ICO?

IOTA threads on the main board before/during the sale (search for more if you're interested):

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233568.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1216553.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1273040.0
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1271872.0


was it not over before dec? what dates did it run for ? 26 days? from when?

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March 22, 2016, 03:52:02 PM
 #39

I even placed this in the German Mass-Media (eigentümlich frei) at the 29th of November please check also the picture... :
http://ef-magazin.de/2015/11/29/7999-iota-vorverkauf-bereits-gestartet

I also wrote several articles about the ICO including an Interview with David, everything before or during the ICO:
https://altcoinspekulant.wordpress.com/category/iota/

So I really tried to get people involved and was successful. There have been several investors that are invested because of my coverage.
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March 22, 2016, 03:54:40 PM
 #40

Let's examine the bigger picture for everyone on the board.

Aye. majority of your poll thinks that the ICO is ok as it is.


also nobody has voted for 2 yet that will put their name to the vote - obviously all iota holders.

You make no sense at all...

I'm sorry you don't understand

option 2 - if you vote option 2 your are meant to comment on the thread that you voted option 2. That is because the poll is not there for iota holders to vote that they think it's good for people to buy their iota for 3000% mark up.It is only iota holders voting for option 2 because they don't want to leave their name on the thread.

Does that help?

You are all over the place. Your logic is flawed, unless you have clairvoyant capabilities to know who is voting what.
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