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Author Topic: [PicoStocks] 100TH/s bitcoin mine [100th]  (Read 467566 times)
ShawnP
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September 09, 2013, 02:39:35 PM
 #901

So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.
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September 09, 2013, 02:46:21 PM
 #902

So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.

Under development Modular UPGRADEABLE Miner (MUM). Looking for investors.
Changing one PCB with screwdriver and you have brand new miner in hand... Plug&Play, scalable from one module to thousands.
Pale Phoenix
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September 09, 2013, 04:48:24 PM
 #903

AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.

It just doesn't make any sense to compare a mining bond with guaranteed, but diminishing returns, to a company like AM.

Sure, AM's dividends might be lower for a few weeks, but they are holding back funds to invest in new technologies that should increase shareholder value over the longer term. So... it does have to do with math, it's just not a back of the napkin calculation you can do for a direct comparison to a bond.

gyverlb
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September 09, 2013, 06:13:38 PM
 #904

AM is increasing now. But it stop at 1PH. I know how PMB works. Thats why I'm continusly wroting "in some period of time".
AM example is good to see that price of the share has nothing to do with math. TAT.VIRTUALMINE gives more dividends that AM (same BTC invested) and it's cheap.

It just doesn't make any sense to compare a mining bond with guaranteed, but diminishing returns, to a company like AM.

Sure, AM's dividends might be lower for a few weeks, but they are holding back funds to invest in new technologies that should increase shareholder value over the longer term. So... it does have to do with math, it's just not a back of the napkin calculation you can do for a direct comparison to a bond.

Investing in ASIC, delivered to your door or hosted by someone else is mostly speculative right now: there are chances that this will be a large bubble burst in the end. As it's difficult to account for every ASIC sold it's near impossible to make a smart move based on projections (avoiding playing might be advisable at this point).

It's even more difficult than math: models with a fixed percentage increase of hashrate every 2016 blocks are mostly useless. They don't factor market saturation, risks of low hardware MTBF / government confiscations, risk of new player with huge pockets and speculative behavior (investing in huge amounts of private 28nm chips). Risk assesment is highly tricky in this environment.
The hashrate could continue on an exponential curve, hit a ceiling or even decrease if the largest hardware providers are hit by component failures (unlikely to the point of being nearly impossible though as there are enough vendors to reduce this risk).

Everything is possible, if most of the alternative sources of ASICs that have yet to prove themselves fall on their face (like bASIC did), existing customers/investors in mines could still get a nice ROI. But with huge delivery delays for many sources, large amount of hardware could be delivered even after the point where mining with ASIC is barely profitable, eliminating any possibility of positive ROI for most.

So take your best guess and sell/buy/keep your BTC for better days...

I've reduced my position on the 200TH mine (at 0.4 and 0.5 BTC I believed it was too risky to keep all of my shares) but I could afford it: I was an early adopter and have already reached break-even.
People who came on board at 0.2 or 0.3 don't have this luxury, they are either:
- all-in hoping for a slowdown in the current curve that would earn them quite a bit,
- believe the exponential increase is here to stay for at least 6+ months and prefer to limit their loss by selling now.

P2pool tuning guide
Trade BTC for €/$ at bitcoin.de (referral), it's cheaper and faster (acts as escrow and lets the buyers do bank transfers).
Tip: 17bdPfKXXvr7zETKRkPG14dEjfgBt5k2dd
gaba
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September 09, 2013, 08:39:50 PM
 #905

August shipping is almost complete.  Due to a shortage of M-boards, we won't be shipping starter kits this week.  As a stop gap for those customers, I'm pointing the equivalent hashrate to a dedicated pool account, which we will pay out to them when we ship.

This means we will keep everything running (currently 20TH), and add about 40TH this week.

Is good to now that 100TH shareholders are on the last place. Thanks.

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
RHA
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September 09, 2013, 10:05:36 PM
 #906

Not quite the last place. No one but August customers were allowed before 100TH.
The shareholders of 100TH are rewarded for the delays with an additional 100 TH/s gear towards a total of 200 TH/s.
It's a brilliant solution. It seems Bitfury himself will have less chips for his private mine, but a good reputation is more important for him.
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September 09, 2013, 11:32:08 PM
 #907

Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.

Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

Known since before 2012 as "the problem with PMBs."

the mine is too small to deliver reliable dividends to the shareholders

Pretty epic shit.

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yuchuanzhen
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September 10, 2013, 01:44:11 AM
 #908

@Dave,can you contact tytus to fix this?

What's wrong with the Volume? https://picostocks.com/stocks

Quote
Code    Bid                     Ask            1dVol         1dChange    1dLow            1dHigh         30dChange 30dLow            30dHigh        
100th   0.26000020    0.28103000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -25.6%    0.20000000    0.40400000    
pico      0.04500000    0.05000000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -0.0%    0.04530000    0.05080000    
proph   0.03000000    0.04140000    0.00000000    0.0%    0.00000000    0.00000000    -0.7%    0.03000000    0.04140000    

And here: https://picostocks.com/profits/ Profits and Dividends paid by PicoStocks to shareholders on PicoStocks
Quote
Month    Dividend fee    Trading fee    Capital fee    Floating fee    Total profit    Profit per share    Dividend paid    Updated
2013-09    0.37795579    0.03667700    0.00000000    0.00000000    0.41463279    0.00000041            0.00000000    2013-09-02 01:00:01
Last update is 2013-09-02 01:00:01.
It used to update everyday/everyhours,or everyminutes.
And now,not any more.

There must be something wrong.

Tip:17YxKtDNYWjkhPYTKieh4xSGuyAfL4kJ5o
redmetal
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September 10, 2013, 02:17:20 AM
 #909

Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.

Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.

Known since before 2012 as "the problem with PMBs."

I still don't see why people are buying any form of PMB! or even when buying hosted hardware is cheaper.

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gaba
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September 10, 2013, 05:49:30 AM
 #910

Not quite the last place. No one but August customers were allowed before 100TH.
The shareholders of 100TH are rewarded for the delays with an additional 100 TH/s gear towards a total of 200 TH/s.
It's a brilliant solution. It seems Bitfury himself will have less chips for his private mine, but a good reputation is more important for him.

What was before August custumers or 100TH shareholders. Another scam. So after 'failed IPO* of the 72TH-min' we have failed 100TH-min, failed 200TH-min... Scammers!

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
buzzdave
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September 10, 2013, 06:22:20 AM
 #911

We managed to put up 10TH in un-optimized rigs today.  We fought networking gremlins early in the day, but still put together almost 50 rigs.  Tomorrow we'll swap out bad cards and should see another 5TH (reaching 35TH total for the mine).  More team members arrive tomorrow, so I hope to hit that 60TH mark.

Cheers,
Dave

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September 10, 2013, 06:26:20 AM
 #912

We managed to put up 10TH in un-optimized rigs today.  We fought networking gremlins early in the day, but still put together almost 50 rigs.  Tomorrow we'll swap out bad cards and should see another 5TH (reaching 35TH total for the mine).  More team members arrive tomorrow, so I hope to hit that 60TH mark.

Cheers,
Dave

I still have faith in your project. I am invested albeit all I can afford at the moment. Really hoping you guys pull through with this 100TH project!
gaba
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September 10, 2013, 07:25:32 AM
 #913

So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.


It's even much worse than that. Right now 100TH is actually 20-30TH-mine. We can expect 200TH for few weeks when difficulty rich 150.000.000. http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
MRKLYE
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September 10, 2013, 08:04:13 AM
 #914

So why people pays 10 times more for AsicMiner when they will have same amount of dividends from 200TH mine.
Because hashrate of AsicMiner is increasing and every share gets more hashing power over time.
With 100TH (now 200TH) bitcoin mine you get 400MH/s for every share and that is it.
For some period of time, investing same amount of BTC into AM and 200TH will give ~3 times more from dividens from later. Do your own math, my maybe wrong though.
Let me explain really simple.
You buy 1 share of 100TH mine for 0.2BTC.
In 1 month your 1 share have produced 0.05BTC.
But price of share has dropped to 0.1BTC.
Another months passes your earned additional 0.03 for total 0.08BTC, but
share price has dropped to 0.05BTC and is now worth 0.05BTC.
Total earned 0.08BTC with share price at 0.05.
Or 0.2BTC invested 0.13 returned.


It's even much worse than that. Right now 100TH is actually 20-30TH-mine. We can expect 200TH for few weeks when difficulty rich 150.000.000. http://bitcoindifficulty.com/

A bunch of FUD me thinks.. Once these guys get running full on I think the share price is going to go up up up!
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September 10, 2013, 08:34:29 AM
 #915

Quote
A bunch of FUD me thinks.. Once these guys get running full on I think the share price is going to go up up up!

Can I ask why you think so? Do you really think that 400MH/s for 0.2BTC or even 0.1BTC is good investment. You don't get even full 400MH/s.

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
gaba
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September 10, 2013, 08:48:33 AM
 #916

https://picostocks.com/ is down!

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
MRKLYE
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September 10, 2013, 08:57:44 AM
 #917

Quote
A bunch of FUD me thinks.. Once these guys get running full on I think the share price is going to go up up up!

Can I ask why you think so? Do you really think that 400MH/s for 0.2BTC or even 0.1BTC is good investment. You don't get even full 400MH/s.

Well If you think about it.. people were paying out the ass for Block erupters that aren't even 400 Mh/s...
These are cheaper.. you don't have to worry about hosting or running it.. Just buy and wait. Tongue
gaba
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September 10, 2013, 09:00:57 AM
 #918

Well If you think about it.. people were paying out the ass for Block erupters that aren't even 400 Mh/s...
These are cheaper.. you don't have to worry about hosting or running it.. Just buy and wait. Tongue

So basically you are waiting for bigger fool. Good luck!

LWWE6dtTUXuaq36KTCne5XqMQHfhfwpadC
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September 10, 2013, 09:41:04 AM
 #919

Quote
A bunch of FUD me thinks.. Once these guys get running full on I think the share price is going to go up up up!

Can I ask why you think so? Do you really think that 400MH/s for 0.2BTC or even 0.1BTC is good investment. You don't get even full 400MH/s.


you are not buying 400 MH/s.

let me explain: if you had a 400 MH/s miner, and mining on a PPS pool, your share would depend on difficulty and actual total hash rate your mining pool is deploying. and luck. with time, your share is smaller.  

in case of 200 TH mine, you are not buying hashes, but a a fixed share (0.00004 BTC) of every block that was found by 200 TH mine. your share will get smaller over time too, but not that quick.
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September 10, 2013, 09:52:39 AM
 #920

WTF, the site is down again.

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