paypal dropped mtgox

[mtgox]

Sorry this is taking longer than I thought. All these payment processors have issues. It is actually very hard to find a good one. (All the more reason bitcoin needs to get widely adopted).
There are still a few more to investigate...

[1713863054]

1713863054

[1713863054]

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[S3052]

Sorry this is taking longer than I thought. All these payment processors have issues. It is actually very hard to find a good one. (All the more reason bitcoin needs to get widely adopted).
There are still a few more to investigate...

Is it an option to regain paypal? did you talk to them what would be required (only certified users, etc.) from their side to work with MtGox again?

[Drifter]

If anything, I feel like Liberty Reserve should strongly be considered, even as a second option.
You can get Liberty Reserve pretty easily right now, and it's not that expensive. Places like goldexpay.com only charge $5 for any amount, or 3% + $6 if you're funding with Western Union. To cash out into your bank account or western union is only 4-5%. Not peanuts, obviously, but for those who keep a chunk of their money online, the fees are miniscule. What is it, 1% to exchange between liberty reserve members? That's even savings compared to Paypal, and no risk of chargeback.
Now for the person who has never funded any e-currency before, it might be a tad confusing on how to initially get started, but it's a system that should work without many hiccups.

[mcjohn]

It seems like good damage control (in order to avoid damage to the Bitcoin and MtGox public image) in present circumstances, might be to reverse all transactions (at original exchange rates, check MtGox low for today? - refund members funded Bitcoins and allow Paypal funders to reverse funding to MtGox - and then start afresh (with a reliable payment processing procedure allowing instant transactions, maybe 3 work days at worst, and not 30 days, for example Western Union, Moneygram, or Liberty Reserve,

[S3052]

Why should any legitimate transaction be reversed. I would strongly object to that as it is totally unfair and even illegal.

[mcjohn]

Why should any legitimate transaction be reversed. I would strongly object to that as it is totally unfair and even illegal.

With funds otherwise frozen for 180 days (six months!), it might be the only way for everybody to recover legitimately what they contributed legitimately.

Original Bitcoin funders could get all their Bitcoins back,

and

original Paypal funders could get all their USD back almost immediately - not maybe in 180 days (six months!).

[ribuck]

original Paypal funders could get all their USD back almost immediately

People didn't send USD to MtGox so that they could get it back. They sent it so that they could trade. Therefore, no legitimate trade should be reversed.

Everyone knew that MtGox's USD conduit was PayPal, therefore anyone who feels aggreived because of PayPal's actions should seek recourse from PayPal.

[mcjohn]

original Paypal funders could get all their USD back almost immediately

Everyone knew that MtGox's USD conduit was PayPal, therefore anyone who feels aggreived because of PayPal's actions should seek recourse from PayPal.

Would that be through the Resolution Centre - suppose for non-delivery of product?

[ribuck]

Would that be through the Resolution Centre - suppose for non-delivery of product?

What's your non-delivered product? I think Bitcoins are being delivered as usual.

[mcjohn]

Would that be through the Resolution Centre - suppose for non-delivery of product?

What's your non-delivered product? I think Bitcoins are being delivered as usual.

I tried to withdraw the paid for Bitcoins - but MtGox (suspecting this to be a fraudulent transaction), put a 30-day waiting period on my purchased Bitcoin - before withdrawal can be effected. 

Are my paid-for purchased items considered delivered, if I cannot withdraw them immediately, and they are not in my full control?  Is it some 30-day fixed deposit without interest?

Before the MtGox Paypal account freeze (due to chargebacks of fraudulent stolen credit card transactions on the MtGox Paypal account), I had a positive outlook of MtGox's future, and 30 days would be ok to wait. Currently however, I am hesitant and do not know what will happen with MtGox in the next few weeks?

[mpkomara]

What you agreed to with Paypal is to deposit your money into your account at mtgox.  if i'm not mistaken, mtgox has the right to do whatever he wants with your dollars.  caveat emptor, no?

[FreeMoney]

Would that be through the Resolution Centre - suppose for non-delivery of product?

What's your non-delivered product? I think Bitcoins are being delivered as usual.

I tried to withdraw the paid for Bitcoins - but MtGox (suspecting this to be a fraudulent transaction), put a 30-day waiting period on my purchased Bitcoin - before withdrawal can be effected. 

Are my paid-for purchased items considered delivered, if I cannot withdraw them immediately, and they are not in my full control?  Is it some 30-day fixed deposit without interest?

Before the MtGox Paypal account freeze (due to chargebacks of fraudulent stolen credit card transactions on the MtGox Paypal account), I had a positive outlook of MtGox's future, and 30 days would be ok to wait. Currently however, I am hesitant and do not know what will happen with MtGox in the next few weeks?

Are you saying you deposited and bought bitcoins before he instated that rule and he retroactively applied it to you?

[ribuck]

I tried to withdraw the paid for Bitcoins - but MtGox (suspecting this to be a fraudulent transaction), put a 30-day waiting period on my purchased Bitcoin - before withdrawal can be effected.

PayPal does actually have a policy on this somewhere, which I have seen recently but can't remember where. There is some specific number of days between payment and delivery that is acceptable to PayPal, but I think it's quite a lot. Also, PayPal themselves sometimes hold a payment for 21 days.

And by the way, MtGox imposed the 30-day waiting period for everyone, not just on transactions that it suspects may be fraudulent.

I'm leaving this thread now, because I don't speak for PayPal or for MtGox, but I hope you won't try to pressure MtGox into reversing trades that other people carried out with you in good faith. That would be tres uncool.

[mtgox]

I'm definitely not reversing any trades.

mcjohn why don't you email me your username and I'll see what I can do for you.

[kiba]

Though we know that you are working in your spare time to add payment processors, the patience of traders are, nonetheless, wearing thin.

[jorgen]

What do you think about https://ikobo.com/ service?
I have used it for one year to send money to my girlfriend and I find it quite reliable.
Now they allows you to send up to 1000$ for 8$ fee using your wire transfer to upload
funds to prepayed  visa CC which they send to any address.

[mtgox]

Kiba: It isn't an issue of time. It is that I haven't found a good alternative. Here are the only choices I have so far:
ACH (only works in the US)
LibertyReserve: (ok except expensive to transfer in and out)
Okpay: (Even more expensive than LR but possibly more funding and withdrawing options)

Ones that wont work:
AlertPay, Amazon: (still has chargebacks and mtgox isn't in their Acceptable Use Policy AUP)
liqpay: (I can't get the SMS from the 4 phones I tried)
Moneybookers: (violates their AUP)
click2pay: (No US sign-ups)
ikobo: No API
and more ...

[nelisky]

Kiba: It isn't an issue of time. It is that I haven't found a good alternative. Here are the only choices I have so far:
ACH (only works in the US)
LibertyReserve: (ok except expensive to transfer in and out)
Okpay: (Even more expensive than LR but possibly more funding and withdrawing options)

Ones that wont work:
AlertPay, Amazon: (still has chargebacks and mtgox isn't in their Acceptable Use Policy AUP)
liqpay: (I can't get the SMS from the 4 phones I tried)
Moneybookers: (violates their AUP)
click2pay: (No US sign-ups)
ikobo: No API
and more ...

How about you open a side PP account to allow withdrawal, but not funding? I mean, I'm not going to be buying any bitcoins anytime soon on mtgox, as obviously the no withdrawal situation is getting the price sky high, and I have a couple dollars there I could use somewhere else. So you don't get the money locked out you could accept PMs from people wanting to withdraw and you'd fund the account just enough for that?

I mean, not having a way to move US$ in and out of mtgox is a pain, but having the $ help hostage is, well, a bigger pain (I'm not in the mood for cursing right now ). And if people want to trade in mtgox while you search hi and lo for the ultimate payment processor (tm) they can buy a few coins personally on the forum or on biddingpond (funny how noone did that yet, "I have $100 to sell, bidding starts and 500 BTC" sorta thing), move that to mtgox and trade away.

[Drifter]

No luck with liqpay SMS? Strange. Be sure to use your country code and area code when punching in your number. You might need to attempt the SMS twice, as for some reason, it doesn't always work the first time.

I once had problems signing in, and contacted their chat support, in which they were able to guide me through the problem. Maybe you should try out their support. Their native language is Russian but support speaks English as well.

I feel that IF you somehow get liqpay to work, it is a pretty good solution. Liqpay can also be easily traded for Liberty Reserve on some exchange sites for 4-5%. Perhaps allowing both Liberty Reserve and Liqpay is a good choice, for one offers credit card payment, and the other is much safer. In fact when you consider the idea of funding Liberty Reserve with liqpay for small amounts, the fees don't really seem that high for Liberty Reserve.



I also agree with the post above. Having a paypal withdrawal account should be a good option to consider as well.

[S3052]

I think we should not allow withrawal of $ at MtGox until after Adding Funds is also possible again. Only one-sided allowance will bring this small and still vulnerable system out of balance.

We should allow withdrawal and adding of funds in parallel.