paypal dropped mtgox

[mtgox]

Keefe: paypal will give it back. Even if they don't things will be fine.
I'm treating LR USD just like USD. I didn't make it a 3rd currency.

twobitcoins: I'm still trying to get ACH but it doesn't look good.

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[caveden]

Now look at these numbers. Do you still think it's too expensive to deal with a real exchange company?

Code:

BitcoinMarket
  Pecunix           :      0.0901
  PayPal            :      0.1500
  Liberty Reserve   :      0.1000

Mt Gox
  PayPal            :      0.16

Link2Voip
  Phone credit      :      0.15015

Nanaimo Gold buys   :      0.0901
Nanaimo Gold sells  :      0.1037

You've raised an interesting point here. It's as if paypal insecurity was dropping its value. In the end, using a secure system (or an insurance) might cost the same.

[FreeMoney]

Ok I've given up the search and started integrating Liberty Reserve.
You can now add payments with LR.
I'm doing withdrawals manually for now.
ExchangeZone.com seems the best place to buy and sell LR since you can do it with out the crazy commission the other exchangers charge.
Please email me if you have issues.

Be careful. ExchangeZone is rife with scammers.

That's what years of experience can teach.

That and what it costs to maintain inventories and mitigate fraud.

You see, for you guys, bitcoin is a nerdish hobby. People serious about digital currency pay exchange commissions because it's worth it.

Both you and BCM were warned long ago about the risks you were taking. I even warned you both last year that your market data would become skewed from the fraud.

I can't even use Mt Gox data because it's so far out to lunch.

Now look at these numbers. Do you still think it's too expensive to deal with a real exchange company?

Code:

BitcoinMarket
  Pecunix           :      0.0901
  PayPal            :      0.1500
  Liberty Reserve   :      0.1000

Mt Gox
  PayPal            :      0.16

Link2Voip
  Phone credit      :      0.15015

Nanaimo Gold buys   :      0.0901
Nanaimo Gold sells  :      0.1037

That's a great rate.

It seems to me that when I put in the amount of LR I want to trade it should calculate the number of bitcoins I will receive and not a number of dollars. Even on the preview page it has dollars and not the number of bitcoins. 

[bitcoinex]

What happens if someone turns out to be a crook which is authenticated?

Begin prosecution? On what grounds? And if the scammer from another country?

Nothing is foolproof?

I just interesting how a system like bitcoin successfully solved this problem.

[nanaimogold]

That's a great rate.

It seems to me that when I put in the amount of LR I want to trade it should calculate the number of bitcoins I will receive and not a number of dollars. Even on the preview page it has dollars and not the number of bitcoins. 

Noted. I'll change the presentation. Bitcoin is different from the other digital currencies.

[Anonymous]

What happens if someone turns out to be a crook which is authenticated?

Begin prosecution? On what grounds? And if the scammer from another country?

Nothing is foolproof?

I just interesting how a system like bitcoin successfully solved this problem.

I think we need to follow what is the strength of bitcoin and that is its distributed nature. It follows that distributed reputation and exchange markets is the way to go. That means the damage from any one bad thing does not effect the whole.

[bitcoinex]

What happens if someone turns out to be a crook which is authenticated?

Begin prosecution? On what grounds? And if the scammer from another country?

Nothing is foolproof?

I just interesting how a system like bitcoin successfully solved this problem.

I think we need to follow what is the strength of bitcoin and that is its distributed nature. It follows that distributed reputation and exchange markets is the way to go. That means the damage from any one bad thing does not effect the whole.

But the exchanges contrary tend to consolidation and centralization.
Unfortunately,exchanges play an important role.

[sturle]

I just created a LR account.  After withdrawing USD 75, which went very quickly, I got 73.51 on my LR account.  Shouldn't it be 74.25?  Looks like the fee of 1% has been deducted twice?

[FreeMoney]

I just created a LR account.  After withdrawing USD 75, which went very quickly, I got 73.51 on my LR account.  Shouldn't it be 74.25?  Looks like the fee of 1% has been deducted twice?

Apparently mtgox takes 1% and LR takes another 1%? If so, better to have fees on withdraws than on every trade. That way market makers can still keep very tight spreads.

I wonder what the deal is with deposits. Just one 1% from LR?

[sturle]

I just created a LR account.  After withdrawing USD 75, which went very quickly, I got 73.51 on my LR account.  Shouldn't it be 74.25?  Looks like the fee of 1% has been deducted twice?

Apparently mtgox takes 1% and LR takes another 1%?

Can't be.  Mt. Gox says on every page: Mt. Gox charges no fee and is free to use.
The withdrawal page only mentions the 1% charged by Liberty Reserve.

[FreeMoney]

I just created a LR account.  After withdrawing USD 75, which went very quickly, I got 73.51 on my LR account.  Shouldn't it be 74.25?  Looks like the fee of 1% has been deducted twice?

Apparently mtgox takes 1% and LR takes another 1%?

Can't be.  Mt. Gox says on every page: Mt. Gox charges no fee and is free to use.
The withdrawal page only mentions the 1% charged by Liberty Reserve.

Yeah, I remember it does say that, but he did charge $1 before for PP withdraws and for checks, so I think the best guess is that he took 1%.

[jimbobway]

mtgox, can u offer withdraws via paypal?  withdraws won't have chargebacks.  if no, then why not?

[jgarzik]

mtgox, can u offer withdraws via paypal?  withdraws won't have chargebacks.  if no, then why not?

Withdrawal... from what account?

mtgox noted at the beginning of this thread that PayPal froze his account, possibly up to 180 days.  After reviewing mtgox's posts, I don't see anything that has changed that fundamental situation.

And creating a second PP account, just for withdrawals, would not only endanger the first (frozen) PP account, but would inflict additional LR->PP transfer fees on the withdrawer.

[jimbobway]

mtgox, can u offer withdraws via paypal?  withdraws won't have chargebacks.  if no, then why not?

Withdrawal... from what account?

mtgox noted at the beginning of this thread that PayPal froze his account, possibly up to 180 days.  After reviewing mtgox's posts, I don't see anything that has changed that fundamental situation.

And creating a second PP account, just for withdrawals, would not only endanger the first (frozen) PP account, but would inflict additional LR->PP transfer fees on the withdrawer.

I deposited usd into mt gox with paypal.  So if Mt Gox's PayPal was not frozen I should be able to withdraw my money back directly into my PayPal account.

r u hoping that mt gox not get a second paypal account just so the first paypal acct has a likely chance to bcome unfrozen? I'm ok with that too. but once unfrozen I should b able 2 make usd withdraws into my pp acct.  I do not want 2 go through liberty reserve.

[mtgox]

jimbobway: yes once paypal unfreezes my account I'm pretty sure I will be able to send you your money from it. If I can't then I'll open a 2nd account to do this.

[kiba]

jimbobway: yes once paypal unfreezes my account I'm pretty sure I will be able to send you your money from it. If I can't then I'll open a 2nd account to do this.

But it's only 18 days! 162 days before you can send money via paypal again.(From the start of this thread) That's a long time.

[S3052]

Volume is dropping on the exchanges (MtGox, etc.).

What is the reason for it?
* is it that people hold on to their coins?
* is it that people spend their coins in games, other services, etc.?
* is it because MtGox does not accept new users? WHAT IS THE STATUS
* is it because MtGox only offers Liberty Reserve to add funds which itself takes ages to buy and is complicated?

I know it is tough and not easy and MtGox is doing a great job trying to work this out, but it would be good to see what the timeline is to re-establish a proper exchange (incl. make it open to new users and easy to add / withdraw funds).
maybe some other experts here can help.

thanks for perspective

[Anonymous]

Volume is dropping on the exchanges (MtGox, etc.).

What is the reason for it?
* is it that people hold on to their coins?
* is it that people spend their coins in games, other services, etc.?
* is it because MtGox does not accept new users? WHAT IS THE STATUS
* is it because MtGox only offers Liberty Reserve to add funds which itself takes ages to buy and is complicated?

I know it is tough and not easy and MtGox is doing a great job trying to work this out, but it would be good to see what the timeline is to re-establish a proper exchange (incl. make it open to new users and easy to add / withdraw funds).
maybe some other experts here can help.

thanks for perspective

A lot of people are using the bitcoin otc exchange on irc. Things might change once mt gox gets some liberty reserve.
irc://freenode/bitcoin-otc  

[ribuck]

Volume is dropping on the exchanges (MtGox, etc.).

According to the MtGox "All Time, Show Volume Data" chart, volume has been generally higher since MtGox lost the use of PayPal than it was before then. And that's BTC volume; if you wanted to look at USD volume that would show even greater increases.

Of course, it would be even higher if MtGox could still do PayPal, but I don't think there's anything to worry about.

[mtgox]

I never stopped accepting new users.
And like ribuck said the volume has been way higher for some reason since the paypal thing.