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Author Topic: A German comedian could be sent to jail for insulting the Turkish president  (Read 7390 times)
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April 19, 2016, 06:48:07 PM
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April 19, 2016, 06:52:33 PM
 #82

I have seen this in local news and the comedian deserve it, a joke has a limit and comedians should not make jokes about presidents like this comedian did, Erdogan does not tolerate even in his country so lets see what will happen with this comedian in germany.

There is something called as humor.Take it as a joke.The amount of jokes American president has to take and matter of fact he can't do anything about it shows what actual Democracy is.Freedom of SPEECH!

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.





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bryant.coleman
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April 20, 2016, 01:17:39 AM
 #83

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?

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April 20, 2016, 02:07:06 AM
 #84

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?

Limit is at ...........

Reached the limit.       Grin
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April 20, 2016, 07:36:54 AM
 #85

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.

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April 20, 2016, 12:55:40 PM
 #86

Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.

Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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April 20, 2016, 01:29:59 PM
 #87

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.
Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Nothing makes Erdogan any different, because there is no law which specifically makes him special.
It's the joke which is different, because it crossed (and deliberately so) a certain line that's been defined by jurisdiction long before.
That line is defined by the specific word "Schmähkritik", which is not so much a law but the definition of the applicability of a specific law which has been used in the German Federal Constitutional Court (being the highest court in Germany) for a while (dating at least as far back as the 1980s).

Bottom line, and I have to repeat myself here: the comedian in question deliberately crossed the line to provoke the exact reaction that we're seeing now. He will have to live with the consequences, which will not be severe, but in fact will make him a lot of money.

The humor is probably lost on everyone who is not comfortable with the specific laws in question, which most likely even includes the major part of the German population.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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April 20, 2016, 01:54:20 PM
 #88

The answer is very simple. Germany has become the vassal state of Turkey
A million Turkish live in Germany, and the Turkish dictator keeps a large part of them under his control. They have to serve the Turkish army for example.
First of all, more than a million Turkish live in Germany, somewhere on the order of 1.5 Million.
Second, not all of them have to serve the Turkish army, even though I'm unsure how many would be legally required to do so.
Third, somewhere on the order of another 1.5 Million Germans live in Germany which have Turkish ancestors.

Fourth, just to put that into perspective, somewhere on the order of 1.5 Million people with Polish ancestry live in Germany, as well as half a million Italians*, half a million Romanians*, some couple hundred thousand Russians*, Croatians*, Greek*, Bulgarians*, Serbs*, Syrians*, French*, Spanish* etc., etc.. You name it, we have it.
Even our Secretary of the Interior has obvious French ancestry.

Germany is a multi-ethnic country, just like most in Europe and there's nothing special about some of the inhabitants being legally required by their respective "home countries" to do their civil duties in exchange for e.g. voting rights there.


* always + offspring

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April 20, 2016, 02:22:03 PM
 #89

Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.

Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!




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April 21, 2016, 01:59:29 PM
 #90







[...]
Mrs Merkel’s main coalition partner, the Social Democrats (SPD), have broken with convention and made it clear they oppose her decision to allow the prosecution.

Two of the party’s most senior ministers, Mr Maas and Frank-Walter Steinmeier, the foreign minister, held their own press conference to disown the decision within hours of its announcement.

“The special crime of insulting a foreign head of state is out-of-date,” Mr Maas said at the time. “The idea of lese-majeste no longer has a place in our criminal law.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/21/merkel-faces-rebellion-over-prosecution-of-comedian-accused-of-i/


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April 22, 2016, 01:51:39 AM
 #91

Basically, the point about civil law is that a government set up that way is virtually a dictator over the people of the nation. There isn't really any democracy. Government rules by giving itself best benefit by allowing the people democratic-like freedom.
Legal systems have almost nothing to do whatsoever with whether any given country is a democracy or not.
In simple analysis, this is correct. However, in a democracy, if the elected governing officials don't make the legal system match what the majority wants, they lose their job. Sometimes before their term is up. So, the legal system depends on the democracy.


It is definitely true that without rule of law, democracy is impossible, but that's an underlying legal principle, not a legal system.
Civil law as a legal system has nothing to do whatsoever with whether or not a government "sets up" a civil code which will define whether or not the jurisdiction, executive and legislative can be considered compatible with a democracy.
The American legal system is common law, making the laws unimportant, although the ignorance of the people makes the people think the laws are important. Jury nullification can change any and all laws in America any time.

In a democracy - which we don't have in America - if the people vote in a guy who promises jury nullification regarding the laws, and then sets it up as he promised, the laws change faster than ever. Why? Because they don't mean anything with jury nullification around. The jury is the law.


Please, before stating such nonsense as you did, rtfm, i.e. go to a library, get the books in the "law 101" section and read!

Please, before you start getting all legalistic and picky about words and phrases, look at the theme.

Cool
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April 22, 2016, 09:13:58 AM
 #92

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

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April 22, 2016, 11:26:10 AM
 #93

Speaking about turkish preservative... Cough-cough, sorry, I mean the president, there are some news from Netherlands:

https://www.rt.com/news/340598-netherlands-turkey-insulting-erdogan/

I'd say that turkish preservative, cough-cough, I mean the president, has lost his limits in reference to place and time.

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April 22, 2016, 11:50:53 AM
 #94

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.
Europe should cut ties with that country instead of bowing for every demand they make.
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April 22, 2016, 01:17:25 PM
 #95

Freedom of speech should have a limit, people mix these things when hit the limit and most of the people in this case would do like erdogan. I know people make jokes and humor but not to exaggerate it.

Where will you put the limit at? Making fun of a president is definitely not crossing the limits. I have seen hundreds of Western comedians making fun of non-European heads of state, such as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping, Hassan Rouhani, and Evo Morales. None of them have been prosecuted. So my question is, what makes Recep Tayyip Erdoğan any different from them?
Answer is very simple, they're not Erdoğan.
Europe should cut ties with that country instead of bowing for every demand they make.
That's impossible because Erdoğan blackmails them. He has a quite useful blackmailing tool, few millions of domesticated migrants, who are ready to be injected into the EU.

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April 22, 2016, 02:28:22 PM
 #96

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

Look at what is happening to Trump in America. The unofficial polls suggest that Trump is loved by 60% of the people. Yet the GOP is trying to keep Trump completely out of the race... and they are doing so with some shady, underhanded, and possibly illegal tactics.

This makes the whole governing processes to look like something other than what the people have been formally told, or formally think.

Cool
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April 22, 2016, 02:42:23 PM
 #97

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

Look at what is happening to Trump in America. The unofficial polls suggest that Trump is loved by 60% of the people. Yet the GOP is trying to keep Trump completely out of the race... and they are doing so with some shady, underhanded, and possibly illegal tactics.

This makes the whole governing processes to look like something other than what the people have been formally told, or formally think.

Cool


Good people love TRUMP

 Smiley


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April 22, 2016, 02:47:39 PM
 #98

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

Look at what is happening to Trump in America. The unofficial polls suggest that Trump is loved by 60% of the people. Yet the GOP is trying to keep Trump completely out of the race... and they are doing so with some shady, underhanded, and possibly illegal tactics.

This makes the whole governing processes to look like something other than what the people have been formally told, or formally think.

Cool


Good people love TRUMP

 Smiley




Smart people don't base their hope on any of these political comedians.    Cool
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April 22, 2016, 03:48:31 PM
 #99

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

Look at what is happening to Trump in America. The unofficial polls suggest that Trump is loved by 60% of the people. Yet the GOP is trying to keep Trump completely out of the race... and they are doing so with some shady, underhanded, and possibly illegal tactics.

This makes the whole governing processes to look like something other than what the people have been formally told, or formally think.

Cool


Good people love TRUMP

 Smiley




Smart people don't base their hope on any of these political comedians.    Cool


Maybe not Smart people. But people driving American cars, instead of tiny little German egg shaped coffin cars, do.

 Smiley



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April 22, 2016, 08:38:48 PM
 #100

Just a few days ago, a rainbow ruling coalition was formed in the state of Sahcsen-Anhalt by all the mainstream parties, to keep the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) party out of power (the AfD is having 25 out of 87 seats). At least in the former Eastern Germnay, the political situation is changing. It is AfD vs Mainstream (pro-Merkel) parties.

Look at what is happening to Trump in America. The unofficial polls suggest that Trump is loved by 60% of the people. Yet the GOP is trying to keep Trump completely out of the race... and they are doing so with some shady, underhanded, and possibly illegal tactics.

This makes the whole governing processes to look like something other than what the people have been formally told, or formally think.

Cool


Good people love TRUMP

 Smiley




Smart people don't base their hope on any of these political comedians.    Cool


Maybe not Smart people. But people driving American cars, instead of tiny little German egg shaped coffin cars, do.

 Smiley





If you can keep the people thinking that they are free by letting them drive cars, why not. Whatever it takes to enslave them.

Cool
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