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Author Topic: A German comedian could be sent to jail for insulting the Turkish president  (Read 7363 times)
Wilikon
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April 07, 2016, 05:30:58 PM
 #1




A German comedian could face prosecution in his own country for "insulting" Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

Jan Böhmermann, a satirical comedian, is being investigated by German authorities under defamation laws for a poem in which he calls the Turkish premier a "goat f*****" and other insults.

He could face up to five years in prison if Turkey's foreign ministers, who were reportedly angered by the programme, decide to press charges and he is convicted, according to Der Tagesspiegel.

"Erdogan is definitely a president with a small tail," says the comedian, in a line where "tail" is understood in German to refer to another part of the male anatomy.
Recep Tayyip Erdogan's craziest quotes

The popular young comedian was reportedly trying to outdo the offensiveness of an earlier song insulting Erdogan, which Ankara officially complained about in March.

"What I'm about to read is not allowed. If it were to be read in public - that would be forbidden in Germany," said Mr Böhmermann before going on to read his "smear poem" on public broadcaster ZDF, according to The Local.

He also said Mr Erdogan "watches child porn while kicking Kurds", in reference to accusations against the Turkish president that he is persecuting the Kurdish minority in the country.

To avert diplomatic tensions, Angela Merkel personally called Turkish prime minister Ahmet Davutoglu and agreed the poem was a "deliberate insult".

She has recently helped broker a deal with Mr Erdogan that for every refugee returned from Greece back to Turkey, one will be admitted into the EU from Turkey's refugee camps.

ZDF removed the programme from its website.

Under paragraph 103 of the German Criminal Code, insulting a foreign head of state can result in a three-year jail term, while an intended slander can stretch to five years.

Such "insult laws" still exist in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Spain and Sweden, according to a report from Pen International, which campaigns on behalf of imprisoned writers.

Mr Erdogan said at the start of April that he welcomed criticism but would "file a lawsuit" against anyone who insulted him.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/german-comedian-jan-b-hmermann-could-face-prison-for-insulting-smear-poem-against-turkish-president-a6972356.html



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I wonder if W Bush or TRUMP was ever insulted in this anti free speech country...


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April 07, 2016, 05:59:01 PM
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Some countries have really unbeliveable laws. What about a freedom of speech? At the end he's an artist

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April 07, 2016, 07:09:24 PM
 #3

I am confused. For long, I was having a perception that Germany was a vassal state of the United States. However, for the past few years, it looks like Germany is becoming the vassal state of Turkey. Germany is about to grant € 20 billion in tax payer funds to Turkey, and Turkish citizens will be allowed to enter Germany without a Visa.

BTW.. what is wrong in calling Erdogan a goat-fucker? His love for goats (and camels) is well-known throughout the middle-east.

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April 07, 2016, 10:22:42 PM
 #4

What a load of shit, this shouldn't even be an issue for fucks sake, especially in a supposedly democratic country, Germany should grow some balls and tell Turkey to fuck off, but I guess Europe likes the middle eastern oil too much that it will consider sacrificing one of it's own citizens to the madman that leads that country.
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April 08, 2016, 12:46:01 AM
 #5

Only someone of an immature mental capacity cant take or accept the existence of criticism. Edrogan is a new Stalin and Hitler all rolled into one.
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April 08, 2016, 12:47:15 AM
 #6

Only someone of an immature mental capacity cant take or accept the existence of criticism. Edrogan is a new Stalin and Hitler all rolled into one.

There's not being able to take criticism, which can be understandable sometimes and then there's deliberately going out of your way to get somebody thrown into jail over it.
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April 08, 2016, 06:40:16 AM
 #7

Yes, it's easier to insult Hitler than Erdogan in today's Germany, but don't worry, nothing will happen, and no one will be sent to jail. Erdogan's critic on press' freedom has brought major news coverage in Germany, with several members of the parliament defending free speech in Turkey, so it cannot get worse in Germany.

http://www.businessinsider.com/r-germany-says-press-freedom-non-negotiable-in-talks-with-turkey-2016-3?IR=T
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April 08, 2016, 08:01:35 AM
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Only someone of an immature mental capacity cant take or accept the existence of criticism. Edrogan is a new Stalin and Hitler all rolled into one.

There's not being able to take criticism, which can be understandable sometimes and then there's deliberately going out of your way to get somebody thrown into jail over it.

I suppose it's better than what Putin would do... he simply murders his opposition... sometimes using radioactive isotopes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

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April 08, 2016, 09:17:04 AM
 #9

Only someone of an immature mental capacity cant take or accept the existence of criticism. Edrogan is a new Stalin and Hitler all rolled into one.

There's not being able to take criticism, which can be understandable sometimes and then there's deliberately going out of your way to get somebody thrown into jail over it.

I suppose it's better than what Putin would do... he simply murders his opposition... sometimes using radioactive isotopes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

The poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko with polonium has recently been exposed as a US intelligence plot to attack Putin's credibility given that Russia is the largest supplier of polonium. That being said, I am sure he has put his fair share of journalists under the dirt, as has Obama and many other past presidents. In the US they just take more time being sneaky about it.

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April 08, 2016, 09:58:53 AM
 #10

Only someone of an immature mental capacity cant take or accept the existence of criticism. Edrogan is a new Stalin and Hitler all rolled into one.

There's not being able to take criticism, which can be understandable sometimes and then there's deliberately going out of your way to get somebody thrown into jail over it.

I suppose it's better than what Putin would do... he simply murders his opposition... sometimes using radioactive isotopes
What a surprise, I see this bullshit once again. He also eats children btw.

Seriously, guys, you need to invent something new. Cheesy

The poisoning of Alexander Litvinenko with polonium has recently been exposed as a US intelligence plot to attack Putin's credibility given that Russia is the largest supplier of polonium. That being said, I am sure he has put his fair share of journalists under the dirt, as has Obama and many other past presidents. In the US they just take more time being sneaky about it.
An average price of Litvinenko-poisoning dose on the US market is somewhat about $50. And still, these idiots are claiming that it was Putin. So logical, oh yeah.


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April 08, 2016, 10:18:32 AM
 #11

Under paragraph 103 of the German Criminal Code, insulting a foreign head of state can result in a three-year jail term, while an intended slander can stretch to five years.

Such "insult laws" still exist in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Portugal, Romania, Spain and Sweden, according to a report from Pen International, which campaigns on behalf of imprisoned writers.
I knew freedom of speech is very limited in Europe, but this is new for me. Jailing people for their opinion on foreign dictators, who came up with that?
Meanwhile everybody called Bush a monkey for years, nobody went to jail.
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April 08, 2016, 11:10:15 AM
 #12

This is simply stupid. They're claiming that USSR was a dictatorship, but even in the USSR everybody was able to say that Fidel Castro is an idiot, without getting imprisoned after that.

P.S. By the way, I'm agree that Erdogan is a goatfucker and braindead lunatic. He's also a corrupt, selfish and unbelievably stupid clown. He's not even a real man, but rather a transvestite.

P.P.S. Actually, I'd say that same applies to majority of european politicians. Just for example, there is no doubts that Merkel is also a braindead transvestite. Allowing the countless hordes of unwashed rapists to enter the country is even more than stupid.

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April 08, 2016, 11:29:18 AM
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Turkish president? lol He is not a president. He is a dictator. But dont worry, i think KGB will take care of him very soon.
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April 08, 2016, 11:34:23 AM
 #14

Some countries have really unbeliveable laws. What about a freedom of speech? At the end he's an artist

agree, but you know, some people will confused between the sense of humor and the disrespect and this is not the first time that this happen.

A good and intelligent man told me one time, the IA will come when machines are able to build a joke... we are going to the opposite...

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April 08, 2016, 12:57:36 PM
 #15

Some countries have really unbeliveable laws. What about a freedom of speech? At the end he's an artist

agree, but you know, some people will confused between the sense of humor and the disrespect and this is not the first time that this happen.

A good and intelligent man told me one time, the IA will come when machines are able to build a joke... we are going to the opposite...


So we are becoming humorless machines while we try to make machines more like humans?

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April 08, 2016, 01:11:30 PM
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Turkish president? lol He is not a president. He is a dictator. But dont worry, i think KGB will take care of him very soon.

He will be around for a while. He is in good terms with the NATO heads of state (especially with Merkel and Obama), and he is also supported by the Israelis and the Saudis. And despite butchering thousands of Kurds recently, the mainstream media has refused to condemn him. The opposition is disunited and fragmented.

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April 08, 2016, 01:32:23 PM
 #17

Hello, I'm a German Wink

Just to set a few things right and into perspective:
freedom of speech is not really limited in Germany.
As long as you voice your opinions, there are just a few minor things you may not say, and even if you do, you usually face a minor fine like a couple hundred bucks.

It is for example illegal to:
- deny the Holocaust + some other "Nazi" stuff
- propagate violence against minorities, e.g. "Kill all muslims!"
- insult people directly and in a demeaning way, e.g. "Peter is an asshole"
- publicly claim as a fact which is not, e.g. "Barack Obama is a convicted child molester"

All of these (and some other exceptions I might have forgotten) may result in prosecution, usually not by a state attorney (only in cases one and two), but by the person you insulted.
If this person is a public figure, it is even asserted that they have to bear a higher level of insult and false statements against them. While I personally could sue someone for calling me an asshole, our chancellor probably could not.

Now, in the case of Erdogan and the comedian, the comedian specifically tailored the words of his poem in a way that is definitely, and without any doubt whatsoever, illegal. Which is precisely what he wanted. He even called his own poem a "Schmähkritik" which is the precise legal definition of where you cross the border of legal to illegal.

If you now believe that the prosecution of this comedian is something against the comedian, you simply don't understand the comedian himself, and his humor is lost on you, sorry, guys. Wink

TLDR; crossing the border to illegality was precisely what the comedian wanted, and what's so funny about it. In no way is freedom of speech in any danger by it.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
Lethn
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April 08, 2016, 01:55:54 PM
 #18

If you believe in freedom of speech and expression, you shouldn't have a problem with people insulting other people, as for holocaust denial, making that illegal is idiotic because it can be easily disproven with fact.

Quote
- publicly claim as a fact which is not, e.g. "Barack Obama is a convicted child molester"

This falls under slander and libel, it doesn't require special laws, holy shit Germany is a stupid country when it comes to free speech Sad which is a shame, because they have very sensible laws on Bitcoin.
Wilikon
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April 08, 2016, 02:10:20 PM
 #19

Hello, I'm a German Wink

Just to set a few things right and into perspective:
freedom of speech is not really limited in Germany.
As long as you voice your opinions, there are just a few minor things you may not say, and even if you do, you usually face a minor fine like a couple hundred bucks.

It is for example illegal to:
- deny the Holocaust + some other "Nazi" stuff
- propagate violence against minorities, e.g. "Kill all muslims!"
- insult people directly and in a demeaning way, e.g. "Peter is an asshole"
- publicly claim as a fact which is not, e.g. "Barack Obama is a convicted child molester"

All of these (and some other exceptions I might have forgotten) may result in prosecution, usually not by a state attorney (only in cases one and two), but by the person you insulted.
If this person is a public figure, it is even asserted that they have to bear a higher level of insult and false statements against them. While I personally could sue someone for calling me an asshole, our chancellor probably could not.

Now, in the case of Erdogan and the comedian, the comedian specifically tailored the words of his poem in a way that is definitely, and without any doubt whatsoever, illegal. Which is precisely what he wanted. He even called his own poem a "Schmähkritik" which is the precise legal definition of where you cross the border of legal to illegal.

If you now believe that the prosecution of this comedian is something against the comedian, you simply don't understand the comedian himself, and his humor is lost on you, sorry, guys. Wink

TLDR; crossing the border to illegality was precisely what the comedian wanted, and what's so funny about it. In no way is freedom of speech in any danger by it.



Just to set a few things right and into perspective:
freedom of speech is not really limited in Germany.
As long as


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It is for example illegal to:

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All of these (and some other exceptions I might have forgotten) may result in prosecution


Have a nice day and welcome to Germany


qwk
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April 08, 2016, 02:26:00 PM
 #20

If you believe in freedom of speech and expression, you shouldn't have a problem with people insulting other people, as for holocaust denial, making that illegal is idiotic because it can be easily disproven with fact.

Quote
- publicly claim as a fact which is not, e.g. "Barack Obama is a convicted child molester"

This falls under slander and libel, it doesn't require special laws, holy shit Germany is a stupid country when it comes to free speech Sad which is a shame, because they have very sensible laws on Bitcoin.
And it's precisely the same in Germany.
It's slander and libel. I just looked it up in the dictionary.
What do you think slander and libel are if not laws setting limits to freedom of speech?

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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