LEGAL COURSE of ACTION Discussion --- bASIC / BitcoinASIC

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Final Poll Results:
Locations of those that have property owed from bASIC:

USA (outside New York state)    11 (23.4%)
USA (inside New York state)    2 (4.3%)
Canada    10 (21.3%)
Europe    21 (44.7%)
Central or South America    1 (2.1%)
Oceania    1 (2.1%)
Asia    1 (2.1%)
Africa    0 (0%)
Total Voters: 47

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[kwoody]

Still awaiting a refund on orders #894 and #1638.
Originally paid approximately 250 BTC.  Have screenshots of the Bitpay page where payment was confirmed.
I live in northern Virginia. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to speed up the refund process.

[||bit]

Still awaiting a refund on orders #894 and #1638.
Originally paid approximately 250 BTC.  Have screenshots of the Bitpay page where payment was confirmed.
I live in northern Virginia. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to speed up the refund process.

It's encouraging that some appear to be getting refunds all the sudden, but I'm not convinced this means all will get a refund. There are too many questionable issues with his business fiasco, and to pretend this is the beginning of a full refunds process might set up a loss of time and create apathy among those still owed.

If/when it comes down to it, it will likely go like this: A lawyer accepts the case (that so far appears to be easy - no further comment there at this time). Then receipts and contact info are collected from people in a private invitation only forum (not this forum). However, to get invited to the private forum, it has been considered to briefly screen every claimant on phone to verify that they are who they say they are. This is simply to mitigate anyone from sabotaging the case somehow. Even though I think it would be difficult to sabotage, since it appears to be pretty cut and dry legal case. I don't want to get into any more than that. If Tom wants to act wisely, he will refund everyone on he ever took money from in the bASIC fiasco within the next week, that is probably the only way he can prevent a legal storm from falling down on his home. Also, he can do himself a service, perhaps buying some more grace time, by actually communicating truthfully with the people he owes.

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[ralree]

Final Poll Results:
Locations of those that have property owed from bASIC:

USA (outside New York state)    11 (23.4%)
USA (inside New York state)    2 (4.3%)
Canada    10 (21.3%)
Europe    21 (44.7%)
Central or South America    1 (2.1%)
Oceania    1 (2.1%)
Asia    1 (2.1%)
Africa    0 (0%)
Total Voters: 47

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So, I'm willing to bet the reason for this is because most US customers used a CC to order (why would you miss out on the points?). 

[||bit]

If something like that went to trial you need witnesses in person along with expert witnesses who can explain Bitcoin.  Then, even if you get a judgment, you still need to collect it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_evidence

Disclaimer: I'm not a legal expert or anything, and am not giving any legal advice. So, everything I say about legal stuff could be wrong.

It's an agreement between bASIC and the paying customer. So, what matters most is the value of the product (USD) offered when the contract agreement was made (i.e. when you paid him whatever), not what you gave bASIC.  For example, bASIC could have asked for tomatoes or a thimble full of salt, and promised to deliver the product (based in USD). If you gave him the tomatoes (or salt), and he failed to deliver the product, then he broke the contract and would owe you something. If you took him to court and won, you would be awarded the value of the promised exchange in USD. Bitcoin shouldn't need to be explained for a case to be effective. It seems the only explanation that might be made would be to appease a judge's side curiosity - not to make the case solid.

Maybe I missed your point though. Sorry. And you might be right, since there will need to be proof of delivering bitcoins to bASIC. That will be figured out if/when it comes to it, and shouldn't be too difficult to prove. There are a couple people in the area that might be able to do this, or maybe someone that can travel there. Thanks for the input on that.

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[iambaboon]

BitPay receipts are proof enough. They have the value in $.

[||bit]

BitPay receipts are proof enough. They have the value in $.

Good point. Though, I don't know if Tom ever setup to accepted BitPay. Did he?  I thought he only took bitcoins direct.

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[crazy_rabbit]

Still awaiting a refund on orders #894 and #1638.
Originally paid approximately 250 BTC.  Have screenshots of the Bitpay page where payment was confirmed.
I live in northern Virginia. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to speed up the refund process.

It's encouraging that some appear to be getting refunds all the sudden, but I'm not convinced this means all will get a refund. There are too many questionable issues with his business fiasco, and to pretend this is the beginning of a full refunds process might set up a loss of time and create apathy among those still owed.

If/when it comes down to it, it will likely go like this: A lawyer accepts the case (that so far appears to be easy - no further comment there at this time). Then receipts and contact info are collected from people in a private invitation only forum (not this forum). However, to get invited to the private forum, it has been considered to briefly screen every claimant on phone to verify that they are who they say they are. This is simply to mitigate anyone from sabotaging the case somehow. Even though I think it would be difficult to sabotage, since it appears to be pretty cut and dry legal case. I don't want to get into any more than that. If Tom wants to act wisely, he will refund everyone on he ever took money from in the bASIC fiasco within the next week, that is probably the only way he can prevent a legal storm from falling down on his home. Also, he can do himself a service, perhaps buying some more grace time, by actually communicating truthfully with the people he owes.

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What about setting up a payment plan with Tom? From the little I have read it sounds like it was all a terrible mistake. Had he been able to complete the herculean task, he would have been a hero. Doesn't exactly feel right that when he falls apart miserably everyone goes for the jugular. Demanding everything within a week might not be possible with him. Why not work out some sort of over time payment?

[crazy_rabbit]

It's nice to see people starting to receive BTC back.. however, looking at this whole ordeal as a whole.. he is still a scammer and a sack of shit..   

Everyone who annunced their work on ASIC projects got problems over problems, delays, and difficulties. BTCFPGA project included. Unfortunately, a business can go wrong. If people are receiving BTC back, it's great news.

You may say he could have managed better the situation, but I don't find correct insulting him this way.

It's the internet

It's my opinion

Get over it

If Tom's teeth were on fire, I wouldn't even piss on his face to help put it out..

Bottoms up Tom and Team Tommy!

+1 .

Tom is really being a dick at the moment and should be labeled a scammer for not returning or at the very least communicating with the community that put their trust with him. We should start a "wall of shame" for all the scammers starting with TOM unless he returns all the BTC to his clients

I think that's cruel. This forums is merciless and expects constant replies from people regardless of timezone or personal situation. We also have no idea what someone might be trying to do to him outside the forum- harassing emails, phone calles, brick through the window. I can imagine no one would want to sort through all the hate just to respond to the few reasonable attempts at contact.

Toms has FPGA's and seems to be processing some refunds. Perhaps if people laid off a bit and stopped threatening to ruin him he might not go off some emotional cliff and sieze up. Rather then demanding responses to nasty posts, why not construct a positive, sensible plan to see if he would agree to it? He does have some mining equipment maybe he can slowely dig himself out of this hole?

[Gabit]

Dave (and I suppose Tom as well) have already made another scam. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.60

The BTC is gone, and we should act. These people wont stop, unless stopped. This picostock scam, was in the making when Dave was still "processing" our refunds. Clad he had time and money.

[miter_myles]

It's nice to see people starting to receive BTC back.. however, looking at this whole ordeal as a whole.. he is still a scammer and a sack of shit..   

Everyone who annunced their work on ASIC projects got problems over problems, delays, and difficulties. BTCFPGA project included. Unfortunately, a business can go wrong. If people are receiving BTC back, it's great news.

You may say he could have managed better the situation, but I don't find correct insulting him this way.

It's the internet

It's my opinion

Get over it

If Tom's teeth were on fire, I wouldn't even piss on his face to help put it out..

Bottoms up Tom and Team Tommy!

+1 .

Tom is really being a dick at the moment and should be labeled a scammer for not returning or at the very least communicating with the community that put their trust with him. We should start a "wall of shame" for all the scammers starting with TOM unless he returns all the BTC to his clients

I think that's cruel. This forums is merciless and expects constant replies from people regardless of timezone or personal situation. We also have no idea what someone might be trying to do to him outside the forum- harassing emails, phone calles, brick through the window. I can imagine no one would want to sort through all the hate just to respond to the few reasonable attempts at contact.

Toms has FPGA's and seems to be processing some refunds. Perhaps if people laid off a bit and stopped threatening to ruin him he might not go off some emotional cliff and sieze up. Rather then demanding responses to nasty posts, why not construct a positive, sensible plan to see if he would agree to it? He does have some mining equipment maybe he can slowely dig himself out of this hole?

LOL - The "sensible plan train" left the station a loooooooong time ago.. I invite you to go back and look at ALL the threads and history before trying to advise people to issue warm fuzzies rather than the cold pricklies... haha..

[repentance]

If something like that went to trial you need witnesses in person along with expert witnesses who can explain Bitcoin.  Then, even if you get a judgment, you still need to collect it.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_evidence

It's not necessary to bring the nature of Bitcoin into a breach of contract action - in fact, if you read the California action filed in respect of Bitcoinica you'll notice that they've been careful to avoid making the nature of Bitcoin an issue and kept it about the USD value owed.

What might be an issue is people not having acceptable proof of their transactions.  If Tom has adequate records, this shouldn't be a problem.   If he doesn't, though, it's much more difficult to obtain independent evidence relating to the transactions than it is with bank, CC or PayPal transactions where a disinterested third-party can provide information relating to the transactions. 

[kwoody]

Does anybody have an address for Tom? I have some free time this week, maybe a road trip is in order.

[miter_myles]

Those of you wanting to revisit the old bASIC forums:

http://gfyi95.com/bASIC/bASIC%20Forum/www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.html

[puck2]

Ah the memories...

Give us a chance to get organized and then make your decision because bASIC is moving forward. Any customer that sticks around will have a bASIC unit hashing away in March GUARANTEED.

http://gfyi95.com/bASIC/bASIC%20Forum/www.btcfpga.com/forum/index3f55.html?topic=1034.msg3051#msg3051

[buzzdave]

Dave (and I suppose Tom as well) have already made another scam. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.60

The BTC is gone, and we should act. These people wont stop, unless stopped. This picostock scam, was in the making when Dave was still "processing" our refunds. Clad he had time and money.

Do your research.  The owner of PicoStocks (tytus) had put $200k into bASIC and AFAIK hasn't seen it returned.  He was already working on a larger process ASIC, but decided to get into bASIC because it looked like Tom was further along.  When bASIC died,  he partnered with BitFury (who designed the 100Gh/s FPGA rig seen at bitfury.org) to make a smaller process ASIC that could perform at an attractive power consumption within a reasonable timeframe.  Look around - BitFury's ability is well respected.  Les is moving forward with ASIC because he ran the numbers and sees it as viable.  Read the business plan here: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19.

I'm sure we'll see lots of good details from Les as the 100TH mine moves forward.  You can decide whether to buy shares of 100TH at any time - even after the units begin mining.

My role with Tom has been well documented - I don't need to detail it here again.  I am no longer involved with bASIC and therefore no longer involved with Tom.

I agree that scammers plague Bitcoin and everybody should do their homework before they invest or get involved with any project.  I also think uninformed trolls and conspiracy theorists plague forums like this one and reduce its usefulness and value to everybody who comes here to learn about Bitcoin.

[dmcurser]

dve can u post the refund list so we can see who is getting refunds and if its in any order or such. since there are a few ppl claiming they have recived. ty if you can

[100%digital]

Dave (and I suppose Tom as well) have already made another scam. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=140366.60

The BTC is gone, and we should act. These people wont stop, unless stopped. This picostock scam, was in the making when Dave was still "processing" our refunds. Clad he had time and money.

Do your research.  The owner of PicoStocks (tytus) had put $200k into bASIC and AFAIK hasn't seen it returned.  He was already working on a larger process ASIC, but decided to get into bASIC because it looked like Tom was further along.  When bASIC died,  he partnered with BitFury (who designed the 100Gh/s FPGA rig seen at bitfury.org) to make a smaller process ASIC that could perform at an attractive power consumption within a reasonable timeframe.  Look around - BitFury's ability is well respected.  Les is moving forward with ASIC because he ran the numbers and sees it as viable.  Read the business plan here: http://picostocks.com/businessplan/19.

I'm sure we'll see lots of good details from Les as the 100TH mine moves forward.  You can decide whether to buy shares of 100TH at any time - even after the units begin mining.

My role with Tom has been well documented - I don't need to detail it here again.  I am no longer involved with bASIC and therefore no longer involved with Tom.

I agree that scammers plague Bitcoin and everybody should do their homework before they invest or get involved with any project.  I also think uninformed trolls and conspiracy theorists plague forums like this one and reduce its usefulness and value to everybody who comes here to learn about Bitcoin.

ahhh Dave, come on... your attitude is totally in line with that of #btcfpga. this is very simple, we preorder a product -it never came, and I (along with many others) havent received a refund. if Tom's working on refunds, great. until i get mine, he's a complete ass hat scammer.

I know its been asked many times, but can you release YOUR complied refund list (minus any personal info... simply isnt relevant)

"do their homework before they invest or get involved with any project" ...we all invested in Tom, you too, and its wasnt even an INVESTMENT, it was a gd preorder.

[SolarSilver]

I suspect most refunds were made to those located in US. Thats because legally there's little to be done for the non-US victims. I wish Tom the ripper would realize this offers him no protection.

Wrong, I'm based in Belgium

Tom is working his way down on the list he got from Dave with all the BTC refunds. He is refunding bigger and smaller BTC amounts

What was your order number, or if you don't want to say, maybe approximate it.
e.g. If it was Order# 123, you could type 12x, or worse 1xx.

Let's see if there is a trend.

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Did you even bother to dig through my previous posts? my order was #299

[||bit]

I suspect most refunds were made to those located in US. Thats because legally there's little to be done for the non-US victims. I wish Tom the ripper would realize this offers him no protection.

Wrong, I'm based in Belgium

Tom is working his way down on the list he got from Dave with all the BTC refunds. He is refunding bigger and smaller BTC amounts

What was your order number, or if you don't want to say, maybe approximate it.
e.g. If it was Order# 123, you could type 12x, or worse 1xx.

Let's see if there is a trend.

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Did you even bother to dig through my previous posts? my order was #299

No. Simply had no reason to consider it probable that you put your order number in another post. Anyway, it's a little bit promising that your order number is somewhat low.

Thanks.

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