Why the monero/bitmonero/MRO/BMR/XMR Cripplemined Fastmine matters

[DaveyJones]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

Last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange.  
From a safety point of view developing an officially supported GUI so people can store their own coins in an easy and safe way offline is pretty much mandatory from the start and most certainly should
not linger for more then two years .. and then still not have an ETA.

thats is bullshit logic.... i think this i all about cash.... be it FIAT or the next E-Cash/Digital Cash whatever.... so is it asked to much that people maybe try to learn sth if they want to buy something like monero?....  the CLI is as safe as it can be at the moment... how can you people handle to sign contracts IRL without a GUI?

You are fucking adults with responsibilities ... why do you need hand keeping when its about YOUR OWN MONEY..... the help in the CLI is good enough

[spatula]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

Last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange.  
From a safety point of view developing an officially supported GUI so people can store their own coins in an easy and safe way offline is pretty much mandatory from the start and most certainly should
not linger for more then two years .. and then still not have an ETA.

Exactly. I suspect now that the XMR emission has slowed significantly that the official GUI will soon become a priority for the monero crew.

[generalizethis]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange. 

And they're right--they also advise using one of the many GUIs and wallet generators too--doesn't mean that people are likely to follow that advice. I'd advice learning line command, boning up on cryptosystems and how they should be built and becoming an early adopter not a reactive speculator, but do you think people will listen to me?

So this is your narrative: that Monero has eschewed the pressure to build an official GUI over many, many months only to keep out those people who are demanding an official GUI before they can validate Monero as an investment--sorry to say I don't believe this is the case, but if it were, I'd tell those people they are pricing-in their demand. It's kind of like blaming Oculus Rift for their beta kits being cheaper than the for-consumer model--though for all anyone knows Monero won't budge when the official GUI hits and those people can see the consumer model in all its glory for the same price it is today (or even less, who knows?).

[qwizzie]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange.  

And they're right--they also advise using one of the many GUIs and wallet generators too--doesn't mean that people are likely to follow that advice. I'd advice learning line command, boning up on cryptosystems and how they should be built and becoming an early adopter not a reactive speculator, but do you think people will listen to me?

So this is your narrative: that Monero has eschewed the pressure to build an official GUI over many, many months only to keep out those people who are demanding an official GUI before they can validate Monero as an investment--sorry to say I don't believe this is the case, but if it were, I'd tell those people they are pricing-in their demand. It's kind of like blaming Oculus Rift for their beta kits being cheaper than the for-consumer model--though for all anyone knows Monero won't budge when the official GUI hits and those people can see the consumer model in all its glory for the same price it is today (or even less, who knows?).

My narrative is very simple, developing an officially supported GUI wallet seems to have been a low priority for Monero for a long time. From a safety point of view thats questionable as people who are not familiar with cli wallets start to look for and use less safe alternatives. Thats pretty much all my narrative at the moment.    

[generalizethis]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange.  

And they're right--they also advise using one of the many GUIs and wallet generators too--doesn't mean that people are likely to follow that advice. I'd advice learning line command, boning up on cryptosystems and how they should be built and becoming an early adopter not a reactive speculator, but do you think people will listen to me?

So this is your narrative: that Monero has eschewed the pressure to build an official GUI over many, many months only to keep out those people who are demanding an official GUI before they can validate Monero as an investment--sorry to say I don't believe this is the case, but if it were, I'd tell those people they are pricing-in their demand. It's kind of like blaming Oculus Rift for their beta kits being cheaper than the for-consumer model--though for all anyone knows Monero won't budge when the official GUI hits and those people can see the consumer model in all its glory for the same price it is today (or even less, who knows?).

My narrative is very simple, developing an officially supported GUI wallet seems to have been a low priority for Monero for a long time. From a safety point of view thats questionable as people who are not familiar with cli wallets start to look for and use less safe alternatives. Thats pretty much all my narrative at the moment.    

So your like the cryptocurrency safety police? Maybe, like experimental planes and other technologies, only those with a willingness to learn or who have the ability to understand the ins and outs of the technology should be using the new technology. Maybe instead of pushing out some wallet borrowed from another coin and slapping your name on it, the developers should make sure the coin works as advertised and there aren't hidden things like faulty algos or weird emissions or privacy concerns or OSPEC concerns, BEFORE they say they are going to change the world and go full infomercial with their untested and unreviewed crapcoin-- I mean for the sake of safety.

[DaveyJones]

....   

like i said that is not an argument ... you don´t leave your wallet at the window in front of the street either and wonder when you get robbed... if you invest in monero its your money... and like i said ONLY your responsibility how to do that secure... ur adult... some of you got kids ... they dont come with some fancy GUI or manual...

so act in the cryptoscene like you would everywhere else... with the bidden caution....

[smooth]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH?

The Dash instamine scam itself is off topic and there are better places to discuss it. However, since this thread was created by Dash supporter in retaliation for legitimate criticism of Dash by Monero supporters among many others, it is important to remind people about the context, lest they not understand that the entire thread is dishonest trolling:

i would not trust one word mastermined710 says.

I was on the xcoin(dash) captive instamine launch. I was there in real time and watched it unfold.

He now tries to deny things that happened  actually happened  on that launch. He is not to be trusted.

Although, this is not a dash/xcoin/dark thread I will not go into it here. I will only say if you want examples of his lies then please contact me for details.

This person is either a total scammer or likes to try and destroy the truth with nuances that are laughable. His tactic is to say he is telling the truth so that the real truth that is a correct and proper picture is distorted and cast in doubt.

He is making this thread only to divert from the dash scam thread.

He is a scam protector and pumper.

[smooth]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

There is an online wallet and there have also been multiple GUI wallets since the first weeks and months for those who choose to use those, including the two that were developed for a bounty organized by the core team: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=589561.0

Since that time other GUI wallets have been developed and released, including lightWallet which is now on its second version and is prominently featutred on the project web site, again making it easily available for those who want to use it: http://getmonero.org/getting-started/choose

The focus of resources by the core team on other areas has not meant that GUIs were not available; they have been available almost since the original coin launch.

Of course none of this should be surprising because the entire thread is dishonest trolling by Dash supporters in retaliation for the honest criticism of their instamine scam and ongoing deception of investors about it:

i would not trust one word mastermined710 says.

I was on the xcoin(dash) captive instamine launch. I was there in real time and watched it unfold.

He now tries to deny things that happened  actually happened  on that launch. He is not to be trusted.

Although, this is not a dash/xcoin/dark thread I will not go into it here. I will only say if you want examples of his lies then please contact me for details.

This person is either a total scammer or likes to try and destroy the truth with nuances that are laughable. His tactic is to say he is telling the truth so that the real truth that is a correct and proper picture is distorted and cast in doubt.

He is making this thread only to divert from the dash scam thread.

He is a scam protector and pumper.

[smooth]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch

It is well known what happened.

1. Bytecoin was coin with promising new technology that was announced with 80%+ of the coins already mined.

2. Aside from the fact that it was 80%+ mined, none of the other aspects of the Bytecoin scam were known at the time.

3. Some community members discussed, originally on the Bytecoin thread, and then later on its own thread, the idea of relaunching Bytecoin with some minor tweaks (mostly slowing down the emission curve and adding a tail emission)

4. Some anonymous guy went and relaunched it

5. The anonymous guy wanted to introduce merged mining with Bytecoin which the rest of the community didn't want. There was a vote, and despite obvious sock puppetry (especially in hindsight) in favor of the merged mining, by some miracle the vote was rejected.

6. The anonymous guy started adding merged mining code anyway, at one point breaking the coin in the process (mining got completely stuck on the whole network).

7. The community met up on IRC and via PMs and decided to fork the repo to a community-controlled repo to prevent this from happening again.

8. At no time during this process was the issue of undertaking an independent effort to independently review and develop Bytecoin's code on the table. None of us had the time for it, nor did we set out to develop a new coin. It was all done strictly to remove the ninjamine/premine, slow down the emissions, and have community control over the repo to prevent any further rogue changes. The expectation was that any further changes would just be merged from Bytecoin, the way many coins merge changes from Bitcoin. Everyone involved including the people mining it, and later buying it, knew that it was (at that time) a minor fork of Bytecoin, and anything good or bad about Bytecoin would be inherited.

8. Later, this new coin started to became popular, and a formal effort was organized to develop and improve the code, led by the Monero core team. This included, among its first steps, discovering and removing the apparently-deliberately crippled mining-code stating 19 days after the original launch or 12 days after the repo fork and concluding either 10 or 14 days following that, depending on which commit you believe removed the last of any apparently-deliberate crippling.

The later of the two dates of the end of any apparently-deliberate crippling 33 days after launch, meaning approximately 825K coins had been mined, not 1.5 million as is incorrectly and dishonestly claimed by the OP: http://moneroblocks.info/search/50000

There is no evidence that anyone exploited the apparently-deliberately crippled minor prior to the first fix 19 days after launch, although it could have happened (most likely by the original developer who was "fired" by the community) on a relatively small scale. There was some documented exploitation of it (though not by the original developer) during the following 14 days. In any case the number of coins mined in this manner would be much less than even 825K.

The issue of the alleged "fast" mine has already been addressed on this thread here:

Monero merely catches up with bitcoin emission, and will eventually have more coins than BTC, due to the minimum block reward starting in 2022:

and here:

These figures are all wrong because they ignore the fact that Monero has a minimum tail emission equal 0.6 XMR per 2min block. This has been part of the social covenant in Monero since the start indicated first as a tail emission of less than 1% and then finalized at 0.6 XMR per 2min block. The comparison with Bitcoin and Litecoin fails simply because both Bitcoin and Litecoin have a fixed maximum number of coins while Monero does not. The comparison with Dash is even worse because not only does Dash have a fixed money supply but the Dash maximum money supply was drastically reduced after launch.

In fact, because of the tail emission (and coupled with the lack of any instamine whatsoever; blocks were precisely on schedule to the minute starting with block #5), Monero has one of the slowest overall emissions schedules of any of the major coins today (possible exception being DOGE, which also has a tail reward). Monero slow emissions will continue to distribute new coins long after Bitcoin, Dash, etc. have seen their emissions dwindle to insignificance (and eventually stop, but that takes much longer). Arguably this has already happened with Dash, since so many coins were created right up front (instamine) and the mining rewards have been cut so drastically thereafter to what is merely a trickle now.

Of course none of this should be surprising since the entire thread is dishonest trolling by a Dash supporter, in retaliation for calling out their instamine scam:

i would not trust one word mastermined710 says.

I was on the xcoin(dash) captive instamine launch. I was there in real time and watched it unfold.

He now tries to deny things that happened  actually happened  on that launch. He is not to be trusted.

Although, this is not a dash/xcoin/dark thread I will not go into it here. I will only say if you want examples of his lies then please contact me for details.

This person is either a total scammer or likes to try and destroy the truth with nuances that are laughable. His tactic is to say he is telling the truth so that the real truth that is a correct and proper picture is distorted and cast in doubt.

He is making this thread only to divert from the dash scam thread.

He is a scam protector and pumper.

And with that

/thread

[DaveyJones]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

. There was some documented exploitation of it (though not by the original developer) during the following 14 days. In any case the number of coins mined in this manner would be much less than even 825K.

The issue of the alleged "fast" mine has already been addressed on this thread here:

Monero merely catches up with bitcoin emission, and will eventually have more coins than BTC, due to the minimum block reward starting in 2022:

and here:

These figures are all wrong because they ignore the fact that Monero has a minimum tail emission equal 0.6 XMR per 2min block. This has been part of the social covenant in Monero since the start indicated first as a tail emission of less than 1% and then finalized at 0.6 XMR per 2min block. The comparison with Bitcoin and Litecoin fails simply because both Bitcoin and Litecoin have a fixed maximum number of coins while Monero does not. The comparison with Dash is even worse because not only does Dash have a fixed money supply but the Dash maximum money supply was drastically reduced after launch.

In fact, because of the tail emission (and coupled with the lack of any instamine whatsoever; blocks were precisely on schedule to the minute starting with block #5), Monero has one of the slowest overall emissions schedules of any of the major coins today (possible exception being DOGE, which also has a tail reward). Monero slow emissions will continue to distribute new coins long after Bitcoin, Dash, etc. have seen their emissions dwindle to insignificance (and eventually stop, but that takes much longer). Arguably this has already happened with Dash, since so many coins were created right up front (instamine) and the mining rewards have been cut so drastically thereafter.

Of course none of this should be surprising since the entire thread is dishonest trolling by a Dash supporter, in retaliation for calling out their instamine scam:

i would not trust one word mastermined710 says.

I was on the xcoin(dash) captive instamine launch. I was there in real time and watched it unfold.

He now tries to deny things that happened  actually happened  on that launch. He is not to be trusted.

Although, this is not a dash/xcoin/dark thread I will not go into it here. I will only say if you want examples of his lies then please contact me for details.

This person is either a total scammer or likes to try and destroy the truth with nuances that are laughable. His tactic is to say he is telling the truth so that the real truth that is a correct and proper picture is distorted and cast in doubt.

He is making this thread only to divert from the dash scam thread.

He is a scam protector and pumper.

And with that

/thread

I would not even call it exploitation, as the only thing that happened is that someone made his own very improved miner ( happens with every coin with a new algo btw When there is money to be made people are on it )... lessening the effort of this thread to make this a big thing even more .... would not make that difference with the improved miner if the "solo" code was crippled or not difference is only a tiny share of the profits of dga and his group back than

[smooth]

I would not even call it exploitation, as the only thing that happened is that someone made his own very improved miner ( happens with every coin with a new algo btw When there is money to be made people are on it )... lessening the effort of this thread to make this a big thing even more .... would not make that difference with the improved miner if the "solo" code was crippled or not difference is only a tiny share of the profits of dga and his group back than

Optimizing is not the same thing as exploiting an apparently-deliberately crippled miner. When dga started working on it, only the first of NoodleDoodle's fixes were done (though even that reduced any advantage significantly), which meant his early work on improving it did involve getting an advantage from that the remaining apparent crippling. What he did later with highly optimizing it, creating a GPU miner, etc. had nothing to do with any crippling.

[MasterMined710]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever.
The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

Once upon a time, years ago, the monero core devs understood the importance of a official GUI.....

GUI wallet or pool would be the first priority I would say,

[MasterMined710]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever- The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Bingo. smooth was an early miner. how many monero did you cripplemine smooth?

[MasterMined710]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

oh great, a centralized web wallet, what could go wrong. lol

[MasterMined710]

You'll all be pleased to hear that i have updated the Thread with citations and quotes to back up all my claims. 
Special thanks to smooth for providing the quotes. There will be more to come!

[smfuser]

Does everyone in the dash community just throw shit against the wall and hope it sticks?

No there are a few rational and honest ones, but MasterMined710, specifically, is a dishonest and often incoherent scam protector and pumper.

Can you provide some examples of rational and honest people in the Dash community?

[generalizethis]

Mastermine has reading difficulties, so he missed why I though his narrative was so f'ing stupid.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

last time i checked people from your own community are advising against keeping large amounts on that webwallet and in general it is considered unsafe to keep your coins longterm on an exchange. 

And they're right--they also advise using one of the many GUIs and wallet generators too--doesn't mean that people are likely to follow that advice. I'd advice learning line command, boning up on cryptosystems and how they should be built and becoming an early adopter not a reactive speculator, but do you think people will listen to me?

So this is your narrative: that Monero has eschewed the pressure to build an official GUI over many, many months only to keep out those people who are demanding an official GUI before they can validate Monero as an investment--sorry to say I don't believe this is the case, but if it were, I'd tell those people they are pricing-in their demand. It's kind of like blaming Oculus Rift for their beta kits being cheaper than the for-consumer model--though for all anyone knows Monero won't budge when the official GUI hits and those people can see the consumer model in all its glory for the same price it is today (or even less, who knows?).

[qwizzie]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever.
The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

Once upon a time, years ago, the monero core devs understood the importance of a official GUI.....

GUI wallet or pool would be the first priority I would say,

When we jump from that date to present date, there is one simple fact that remains : there is still no official GUI wallet
Information from Monero itself indicates and support that :

http://monero.org/faq-items/where-is-the-monero-xmr-gui-wallet/



Sure there are several unofficial versions but those are not supported, maintained or even further developed by Monero itself and therefore Monero can not
and will not be held responsible if anything happens to these wallets. Something that smooth "forgot" to mention when he mentioned the onofficial GUI wallets.

So whats left for the Monero community to safely use is a cli wallet, coupled with no official Monero policy to warn people not to use the webwallet to stall large amounts on
and not use exchanges to stall coins longterm on (exception being daytraders that need their coins on exchanges to trade with them of course).  

[generalizethis]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever--who builds a scam an makes it only appeal to those who understand opensource or are comfortable with line command? That would immediately put your coin under the scrutiny to those most knowledgeable about coding, as they are the people most comfortable with line command--so not exactly a wise move if you're trying to scam people--kind of like making a wine and only selling it at wine competitions (if it's lousy, it's going to be apparent all the more quickly, and vocally so). The first thing every scam ever does is put out some bitcoin wallet, slap their name on it and say "Look how cool our wallet is? We must be legitimate, right?" The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

The reason to make it harder to use (by not having an official GUI) is to keep the coins for insiders, and wait to release the official GUI until after coin emission has drastically slowed, which is exactly what is happening.

Is it? Because last time I checked there was a online wallet and most of the people who aren't comfortable with command line just keep there's on Polo.

oh great, a centralized web wallet, what could go wrong. lol

I already answered this also:

So your like the cryptocurrency safety police? Maybe, like experimental planes and other technologies, only those with a willingness to learn or who have the ability to understand the ins and outs of the technology should be using the new technology. Maybe instead of pushing out some wallet borrowed from another coin and slapping your name on it, the developers should make sure the coin works as advertised and there aren't hidden things like faulty algos or weird emissions or privacy concerns or OSPEC concerns, BEFORE they say they are going to change the world and go full infomercial with their untested and unreviewed crapcoin-- I mean for the sake of safety.

[smooth]

Why are all the Monero guys in here talking about DASH? This thread is about the questionable XMR launch. Let's stay on topic.

So the fastmine/high initial emission of XMR, combined with the refusal to create an official GUI wallet for easy public use does seem very scammy.

Also, the Monero devs claim they didn't know about the scam miner they were pushing off on the public. If that is true, what other parts of their copy/paste coin do they not understand?

It's one thing for novices to copy (well known) bitcoin, but copying something like bytecoin that is brand new, a scam, and includes fraudulent code is pretty irresponsible.

Smooth or one of the other Devs can talk about what happened at the launch, but the lack of GUI is one of the least scammy things ever.
The Monero Devs are wise to build the coin, then the wallet, and then market it.

Once upon a time, years ago, the monero core devs understood the importance of a official GUI.....

GUI wallet or pool would be the first priority I would say,

Yup, that's why both GUI wallets and pool code were developed using bounties. Both efforts successfully concluded in mid 2014