Seccour (OP)
Legendary
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Activity: 1619
Merit: 1004
Bitcoiner, Crypto-anarchist and Cypherpunk.
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June 17, 2016, 06:08:54 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
Don't freeze it, thanks. That's what happen when people deal with others without escrow or with untrusted sellers. |
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illodin
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June 17, 2016, 06:39:17 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
Difference is that IOTA is not released yet whereas Ethereum is. People won't learn no matter what lessons are given. Just look at the human history from the past 5000+ years. Or the crypto history from the past 3 years. TL;DR: Freeze |
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Seccour (OP)
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1619
Merit: 1004
Bitcoiner, Crypto-anarchist and Cypherpunk.
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June 17, 2016, 06:51:50 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
Difference is that IOTA is not released yet whereas Ethereum is. People won't learn no matter what lessons are given. Just look at the human history from the past 5000+ years. Or the crypto history from the past 3 years. TL;DR: Freeze Iota Testing on the IOTA chat. They've get rekt because they have deal with the wrong guy, freezing isn't a good solution, Come-from-Beyond don't have to play the IOTA dictator that have the power to freeze any account. |
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yassin54
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1540
Merit: 1000
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June 17, 2016, 07:50:56 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
Sorry for all buyer, but CfB are true for this situation!! |
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Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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June 17, 2016, 08:08:19 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
Sorry for all buyer, but CfB are true for this situation!! Well, actually it doesn't matter if I'm right or not. The ultimate decision will be made by David (aka iotatoken), I'll just provide technical assistance in case if the freezing is possible. |
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rdanneskjoldr
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June 17, 2016, 11:12:32 PM |
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I didnt want to be rude before, but people who bought without escrow, just shouldnt ask later for help.
If you decided to do so, such an irresponsible decision, which affects not only yourself, but others, face your mistake.
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banqueiro
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
cryptoPag.com
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June 17, 2016, 11:24:59 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
I agree. I'd feel sorry to see people losing money with frustrated iota deals, but such risk has always been very clear (the risk that the seller could eventually not deliver, disappear... the seller could even die - ! - and the the buyer would never receive his iotas). Obviously, this risk has even been priced, first of all... ...Still, it would be sad to see those deals going wrong. But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO... If there is any good thing in it all, let's look forward to learning from the sad experiences we witness daily: as we did today with Ethereum and the DAO :/ |
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Buratino
Legendary
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Activity: 1151
Merit: 1003
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June 18, 2016, 03:16:39 AM |
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I didn't like how Child_Harold did trades in too tempting manner. I smelt scam and unfortunately it happens.
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Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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June 18, 2016, 06:15:49 AM |
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But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO...
Iota wasn't launched yet, so the case has a little related to (de)centralization. |
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LitcoinCollector
Legendary
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Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
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June 18, 2016, 08:46:14 AM |
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ALWAYS USE ESCROW!
It has been said over and over again in the beginning of the Iota trading, but people tend to only learn the hard way.
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iotatoken
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June 18, 2016, 11:47:26 AM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
I agree. ...Still, it would be sad to see those deals going wrong. But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO... Like CfB said, this tiny issue of helping out some people who made a dumb decision is entirely unrelated to decentralization and the other aspects of 'TheDAO'. This is so primarily because Ethereum has launched and is decentralized, IOTA hasn't, so IOTA is not meant to be 100% decentralized yet, it's still being developed by the company that sold the software, so until the official launch it is not 100% decentralized. What CfB was referring to is the fact that by helping out a few people who made a mistake that they should never have made, we might actually hurt other people in the long term by not letting people learn the hardway, which is usually the only way people learn. And to be sure: IOTA is not some political ideology movement for decentralization. It's tech that need to be decentralized in order to serve it's function as a trustless transactional settlement system in the emergent 'Economy of Things', but the decentralization aspect is nowhere near as important in IOTA as it is in Ethereum, where it is the chief feature. |
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Buratino
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1151
Merit: 1003
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June 18, 2016, 12:18:49 PM |
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ALWAYS USE ESCROW!
It has been said over and over again in the beginning of the Iota trading, but people tend to only learn the hard way.
Agreed strongly. No escrow - no deal. |
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illodin
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June 18, 2016, 12:33:06 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
I agree. ...Still, it would be sad to see those deals going wrong. But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO... Like CfB said, this tiny issue of helping out some people who made a dumb decision is entirely unrelated to decentralization and the other aspects of 'TheDAO'. This is so primarily because Ethereum has launched and is decentralized, IOTA hasn't, so IOTA is not meant to be 100% decentralized yet, it's still being developed by the company that sold the software, so until the official launch it is not 100% decentralized. What CfB was referring to is the fact that by helping out a few people who made a mistake that they should never have made, we might actually hurt other people in the long term by not letting people learn the hardway, which is usually the only way people learn. And to be sure: IOTA is not some political ideology movement for decentralization. It's tech that need to be decentralized in order to serve it's function as a trustless transactional settlement system in the emergent 'Economy of Things', but the decentralization aspect is nowhere near as important in IOTA as it is in Ethereum, where it is the chief feature. You know a theft has happened, you have the stolen goods in your possession and decide not to give them back? It's your decision of course but if CH has disappeared and is nowhere to be found and the victims want justice they don't have many options left on who to sue. |
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iotatoken
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June 18, 2016, 12:38:11 PM |
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You know a theft has happened, you have the stolen goods in your possession and decide not to give them back? It's your decision of course but if CH has disappeared and is nowhere to be found and the victims want justice they don't have many options left on who to sue.
No, we don't know that yet. If he has claimed the tokens there is nothing we can do. |
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rdanneskjoldr
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June 18, 2016, 12:40:41 PM |
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You know a theft has happened, you have the stolen goods in your possession and decide not to give them back? It's your decision of course but if CH has disappeared and is nowhere to be found and the victims want justice they don't have many options left on who to sue.
Its a matter of mentality. When i make a mistake, that instantly costs me money , i never try to get that money back. I enjoy the fact i paid for it, because it makes me learn the hard way and act smarter in the future. When someone decided to trade without escrow, they are being irresponsible and doing something stupid. I cant respect anyone who does that and then asks for help, after lots of us warned here 20 times not to buy without escrow. I also have the gut cryptoknightt has oversold. Because he is not posting anymore, and ive known of many users who have treated with him personally in private these last days, and he has been trying to sell at unusual low rates (11-14x) with no escrow. Sorry if im mistaken. For the 3289742389734298 time, DONT TRADE WITHOUT ESCROW |
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banqueiro
Full Member
Offline
Activity: 150
Merit: 100
cryptoPag.com
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June 18, 2016, 12:45:48 PM |
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But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO...
Iota wasn't launched yet, so the case has a little related to (de)centralization. Well, if that is the case, it would be immoral not to help the buyers. |
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iotatoken
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June 18, 2016, 12:46:22 PM |
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You know a theft has happened, you have the stolen goods in your possession and decide not to give them back? It's your decision of course but if CH has disappeared and is nowhere to be found and the victims want justice they don't have many options left on who to sue.
Its a matter of mentality. When i make a mistake, that instantly costs me money , i never try to get that money back. I enjoy the fact i paid for it, because it makes me learn the hard way and act smarter in the future. When someone decided to trade without escrow, they are being irresponsible and doing something stupid. I cant respect anyone who does that and then asks for help, after lots of us warned here 20 times not to buy without escrow. I also have the gut cryptoknightt has oversold. Because he is not posting anymore, and ive known of many users who have treated with him personally in private these last days, and he has been trying to sell at unusual low rates (11-14x) with no escrow. Sorry if im mistaken. For the 3289742389734298 time, DONT TRADE WITHOUT ESCROWYea not to mention how much Child_Harold was harassing me and CfB almost daily in his drunken stupours. When someone is harassing the creators of the tech and then offer to trade without escrow you should be very skeptical. |
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klee
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1000
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June 18, 2016, 12:54:21 PM |
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What if by freezing CH's account I'm doing the same disservice as VB to Ethereum community with that fork? The lesson won't be learned if I babysit those who decided not to use an escrow service...
I agree. ...Still, it would be sad to see those deals going wrong. But messing with the solution of a "centralised intervention on the network", as proposed (e.g. CfB freezing accounts on the ledger, etc) would greatly hurt the "decentralised nature" of everything that we are doing here, IMHO... Like CfB said, this tiny issue of helping out some people who made a dumb decision is entirely unrelated to decentralization and the other aspects of 'TheDAO'. This is so primarily because Ethereum has launched and is decentralized, IOTA hasn't, so IOTA is not meant to be 100% decentralized yet, it's still being developed by the company that sold the software, so until the official launch it is not 100% decentralized. What CfB was referring to is the fact that by helping out a few people who made a mistake that they should never have made, we might actually hurt other people in the long term by not letting people learn the hardway, which is usually the only way people learn. And to be sure: IOTA is not some political ideology movement for decentralization. It's tech that need to be decentralized in order to serve it's function as a trustless transactional settlement system in the emergent 'Economy of Things', but the decentralization aspect is nowhere near as important in IOTA as it is in Ethereum, where it is the chief feature. You know a theft has happened, you have the stolen goods in your possession and decide not to give them back? It's your decision of course but if CH has disappeared and is nowhere to be found and the victims want justice they don't have many options left on who to sue. |
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Come-from-Beyond
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1009
Newbie
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June 18, 2016, 12:54:52 PM |
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and CfB
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youyou_
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June 18, 2016, 01:00:42 PM |
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What CfB was referring to is the fact that by helping out a few people who made a mistake that they should never have made, we might actually hurt other people in the long term by not letting people learn the hardway, which is usually the only way people learn.
maybe a middle solution would be to freeze CH account, and pay scammed people with a "tax" of x% going to the fundation? This way: 1 people are not enterly scammed, 2 learn the lesson and 3 fundation goes up We can see this like the "escrow" service provided at the begining by Cfb, but now with a x% charge. CH was an obvious scammer from the beggining. I cant' understand how people made trades with this guy... |
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