Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms

[marlboroza]

Why did bitstarz casino accept bet higher than 0.025 if they are against bitstarz casino TOS?
If bitstarz accept any bet higher than 0.025 that means TOS is not valid. Second, if you accept bet that means you(Bitstarz casino) agrees that player can put bet higher in TOS(Because you took players bet as valid in that moment he put that bet on table).

You don't have any warnings for maximum bets, and you don't have any restrictions in your games, so ALL BETS ARE VALID!

In other hand, you can change your TOS in next 5 min, and write there: bets higher than 0.00000001BTC are against our rules, and in that point you can clear all users accounts!


Imagine, you walk into a real(not online) casino, put your bets, win some money, and than bouncer come and kick you out of casino saying you bet more money than its in their TOS!

[olubams]

In all this all I can add is, bitstarz exploited the terms to the disadvantage of Op which is not good from the point I'm looking at it BITSTARZ owe him to install a notification that he is going above the limit not to hide inside a tiny term that even 99% of the players there does not even bother to read. And good for you to have exploited it but you made more damage than what you withheld from him and I am sure it has cost you a lot...

[gagolina]

they cheating players i gettin every time some promotion mail for deposite bonus and after i deposite i got nothing just live support say they not send that mail and my country is restricted for eny bonus i got more times bonus but they stop my country for deposite bonus but they continue to send mails and many time i deposite but this is end for my deposite

GET €50 OR 250 mBTC!
TRY OUR GAMES RISK-FREE!
GET UP TO 250 mBTC EXTRA!
GET €50 OR 250 mBTC!
Happy 4th of July!
MASSIVE VALUE!
...
if they read this i can print screen my inbox.STOP SENDING PROMOTIONS MILS IF U DONT GIVE IT


 

[warningsigns]

I knew it for a long time Bitstarz are scammers just yesterday they stole me 0.08 btc, i will not put more details but "mike" the hero supporter know about it.

Hi there,

I'd like to throw some light on this situation as I think that when someone uses the word "scammer" I always appreciate
it's being presented with some kind of evidence too. We all want a fair gaming situation here and it's important that if
there are any experienced issues, this should be presented in the open with a fair argument so we can work it out as
civilized people.

In your case (if I recall correctly) you were playing rounds to a total of 0.08 BTC and the your got disconnected for some
reason, and the came to talk to us on the live chat claiming you got disconnected and now the slot "forgot your 0.08 BTC
you put in" and you had to start all over. So, let's kill a myth right here, it has absolutely nothing to do with the progress
of your continued playing unless there's a progress feature in the game such as in Immortal Romance where you collect
achievements and whatnot. I do apologize for the disconnection however as I know it's quite frustrating when you're
in the middle of something.

Also, the argument that we sat there and waited for you and disconnected you on purpose, I'm sorry mate but that's not
the case either.

I'm happy to answer any questions any of you have, but I think it's fair for both of us, player and operator that we play with
open cards (pun intended for sure) before we throw out words as liars and scammers. Let's keep this friendly and to the point.

Regards,

Mike

You are "happy" to answer questions. FYI, your victims need ACTION and not happily-answered questions, you fraudster!

Pay your customers and stop stealing from them! Aren't you ashamed of putting food in your stomach (and those of your family, if you have any) using money you defrauded your customers of?

[warningsigns]

I knew it for a long time Bitstarz are scammers just yesterday they stole me 0.08 btc, i will not put more details but "mike" the hero supporter know about it.

Hi there,

I'd like to throw some light on this situation as I think that when someone uses the word "scammer" I always appreciate
it's being presented with some kind of evidence too. We all want a fair gaming situation here and it's important that if
there are any experienced issues, this should be presented in the open with a fair argument so we can work it out as
civilized people.

In your case (if I recall correctly) you were playing rounds to a total of 0.08 BTC and the your got disconnected for some
reason, and the came to talk to us on the live chat claiming you got disconnected and now the slot "forgot your 0.08 BTC
you put in" and you had to start all over. So, let's kill a myth right here, it has absolutely nothing to do with the progress
of your continued playing unless there's a progress feature in the game such as in Immortal Romance where you collect
achievements and whatnot. I do apologize for the disconnection however as I know it's quite frustrating when you're
in the middle of something.

Also, the argument that we sat there and waited for you and disconnected you on purpose, I'm sorry mate but that's not
the case either.

I'm happy to answer any questions any of you have, but I think it's fair for both of us, player and operator that we play with
open cards (pun intended for sure) before we throw out words as liars and scammers. Let's keep this friendly and to the point.

Regards,

Mike

If you want to keep this friendly, compensate your victims, you fraudster!

[warningsigns]

Hi all,

I think our reputation on AskGamblers speak for itself. As someone stated earlier we've got a
9.13 out of 10 (based on 64 unique reviews) and are ranked #4 out of 1085 casinos.

Also, as mentioned earlier unfortunately this player broke the terms that he agreed to, and
unfortunately had to suffer the consequences for it. This has also been mentioned in Casinomeister
and AskGamblers where their admins and senior members are taking our side in this, which
is a clear no-brainer considering the rules were clearly stated and were breached.

I know it sucks to lose the money, but you've essentially broken terms that you agreed to, and
which is one of the most common terms out there. Again, it's not like we felt like removing some
money from your account and just did it, you broke the rules you agreed to. Therefore I'm not
entirely sure what the rant here is all about.

As also mentioned earlier, we confiscated the money, informed about the breaching of rules
and gave you another shot. The first bet you did was again over the limit, so I'm not sure what
to think about your playing. This time you were clearly aware about the term and you broke it again.

In conclusion, I'll let the reviews of the casino on AskGamblers speak for itself, as long as you stick
to the rules while playing at BitStarz, you're welcome to play without any issues. If you are unclear
about the rules, ask us and if you do not agree with the terms, we wish you the best of luck in another
casino.

Regards,

Mike


EDIT:

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73235&page=4
http://www.askgamblers.com/forum/topic/5958-bitstarz-removes-345-btc-balance-according-to-breaking-bonus-terms/

Those are deceptive reviews. You are a fraudster of the worst caliber.

I urge everyone to cease and desist from playing or injecting bets on this fraudster's so-called casino. It's not a casino. It's a website designed to scam and cheat.

[maku]

Another case when ToS of gambling service means nothing and can be changed at will by site's owner. I wonder if bad publicity and negative reviews are worth that 3.45 BTC.
Because money can be earned back, but trust is a lot harder to earn and potentially could be lost forever.

[bet365guru]

Bitstarz again, this casino scammed so many loyal customers and winners. Screw itself. 

[JITENDERPAR3]

this is a big scam because they violates own rule . i don't think it os a rule of maximum betting amount . if maximum betting amount is 0.025btc then why thier program of site allow you to bet . i think it is totally a scam of bitstrad .

[bitstars.net]

Hi there,

I'm not sure what your definition of a "scam" is, but if you break
the rules that you've agreed to, that's a very interesting choice of words,
and an outright slanderous claim.

This is one of the most common bonus rules in any casino and we remind players
on the chat when they come ask, and the terms and conditions of the bonus are
displayed in multiple places of the website.

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

Mike

[quit_gambling_for_good]

So if the players loses his money breaking the bonus terms? Will the casino freeze the player account and offered to refund back his balance and tell him about the terms and conditions?

This is scam, when players wins, they uses terms and conditions to prevent payout to customer.

[worthyou]

Lol they are still trying to defend themselves while %90 of bitcointalk players claim them as "scam".

So left this scam casino alone with its negative feedback and play any other "reliable" casino.

[RHavar]

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

I find this really hard to believe. You already have the means to check if someone exceeded the max bet (which you use for taking all their money). As a coder, who's worked on a handful of gambling sites -- I don't believe it's going to take more than a handful of lines of code to enforce the condition on the server in real-time, and spit out an ugly error. This is something that should've been from day 1 anyway.

And if it *really* was so hard to enforce a max-bet limit, if you guys had an iota of ethics you would choose between:

a) Giving players a free pass, until you finished the enforcement implementation
b) Revert all bets that exceeded the max-bet be them win or loses, and tell the player about the rule


But instead you've used selective-enforcement to fleece your customers, even for unrelated funds. The scariest part is, I worry that you guys are so damaged as to genuinely believe that it's ok to take all of someones money because they didn't read your terms of service and unknowingly bet too much.

[TwitchySeal]

Hi there,

I'm not sure what your definition of a "scam" is, but if you break
the rules that you've agreed to, that's a very interesting choice of words,
and an outright slanderous claim.

This is one of the most common bonus rules in any casino and we remind players
on the chat when they come ask, and the terms and conditions of the bonus are
displayed in multiple places of the website.

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

Mike

The rule is bullshit, but you didn't make it and I doubt you (you, as in Bitstarz) could change it even if you wanted.  Right?
Am I wrong  or would a decision like that be made by the same people that are running many other casinos ( Direx N.V. or Softswiss maybe?, or are they the same people?  )

It may seem like a normal rule every casino has to you, but I can assure you that you will only find it at unregulated casinos, or casinos that might as well be unregulated from a players perspective.

Let's just assume that "Bitstarz" really wants to be an honest Casino and for some reason they aren't allowed to change this max bet rule.

If they were to take the following three steps, I think they would have a valid argument that what their doing isn't wrong or require any (omg) technical implementation.

1.) Tell every single player that violates the rule.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, if a player deposits $500, receives a bonus, and loses it playing $10 hands of blackjack, you don't bother to let him know his $500 was torched the minute the first card was dealt, do you?

What if he does it 20 more times over the next year before finally getting lucky and clearing the bonus with a balance of $5k?
See where I'm going with this?  See how fucked up it is to do this to your players?


2.) Put the same amount of effort into making sure players are aware your deposit bonuses as they are this max bet rule.   

Right now a lawyer could easily spend hours studying your terms and conditions and not even be aware this rule exists.

Don't believe me?

Scroll down to the bottom of your site (where the t&c are traditionally found)
Click on terms and conditions and read the whole thing.
https://www.bitstarz.com/terms

Wow, you're fast!, that was 4,506 words.
The word "bonus" was used 17 times.  
No mention of max bet rule though. Not even a link to somewhere else that mentions it.

Maybe in the FAQ that has a separate "Bonus Section"?
Nope, not even under FAQ: Bonuses ("Why are you keeping my money?" might be a good one to add)

To find this max bet rule, one must click on "Terms and Condition" that's found in the promo advertisements.  (Not the bottom of the page)
These seperate T&C are 2,059 words long, the rule can be found around word #1,578.

Until the play through requirements have been met, the maximum bet that can be placed is 5 EUR/GBP/USD/CAD/AUD, 50 SEK/NOK. When it comes to Bitcoin players the maximum bet is 25 mBTC (0.025 BTC).  

(25 mbtc is like 14 euro btw)

Also you're banners need to looks something like this:




PS: There's a bunch of other little scummy  non-transparent tactics I found if you're interested.  Other casinos start ignoring me about now so, thought I'd ask.

[casinobonusgiveaway]

Hi there,

I'm not sure what your definition of a "scam" is, but if you break
the rules that you've agreed to, that's a very interesting choice of words,
and an outright slanderous claim.

This is one of the most common bonus rules in any casino and we remind players
on the chat when they come ask, and the terms and conditions of the bonus are
displayed in multiple places of the website.

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

Mike

The rule is bullshit, but you didn't make it and I doubt you (you, as in Bitstarz) could change it even if you wanted.  Right?
Am I wrong  or would a decision like that be made by the same people that are running many other casinos ( Direx N.V. or Softswiss maybe?, or are they the same people?  )

It may seem like a normal rule every casino has to you, but I can assure you that you will only find it at unregulated casinos, or casinos that might as well be unregulated from a players perspective.

Let's just assume that "Bitstarz" really wants to be an honest Casino and for some reason they aren't allowed to change this max bet rule.

If they were to take the following three steps, I think they would have a valid argument that what their doing isn't wrong or require any (omg) technical implementation.

1.) Tell every single player that violates the rule.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, if a player deposits $500, receives a bonus, and loses it playing $10 hands of blackjack, you don't bother to let him know his $500 was torched the minute the first card was dealt, do you?

What if he does it 20 more times over the next year before finally getting lucky and clearing the bonus with a balance of $5k?
See where I'm going with this?  See how fucked up it is to do this to your players?


2.) Put the same amount of effort into making sure players are aware your deposit bonuses as they are this max bet rule.   

Right now a lawyer could easily spend hours studying your terms and conditions and not even be aware this rule exists.

Don't believe me?

Scroll down to the bottom of your site (where the t&c are traditionally found)
Click on terms and conditions and read the whole thing.
https://www.bitstarz.com/terms

Wow, you're fast!, that was 4,506 words.
The word "bonus" was used 17 times.  
No mention of max bet rule though. Not even a link to somewhere else that mentions it.

Maybe in the FAQ that has a separate "Bonus Section"?
Nope, not even under FAQ: Bonuses ("Why are you keeping my money?" might be a good one to add)

To find this max bet rule, one must click on "Terms and Condition" that's found in the promo advertisements.  (Not the bottom of the page)
These seperate T&C are 2,059 words long, the rule can be found around word #1,578.

Until the play through requirements have been met, the maximum bet that can be placed is 5 EUR/GBP/USD/CAD/AUD, 50 SEK/NOK. When it comes to Bitcoin players the maximum bet is 25 mBTC (0.025 BTC).  

(25 mbtc is like 14 euro btw)

Also you're banners need to looks something like this:




PS: There's a bunch of other little scummy  non-transparent tactics I found if you're interested.  Other casinos start ignoring me about now so, thought I'd ask.

Well findings, they claimed max wager of X; X is not told to everyone, so next time they can change to 20mbtc or 10mbtc, if people have won 50 btc. Bitstarz, it is serious fraud issue, you fraud us, fraud =scam, so answer of your question is here.

[TwitchySeal]

Hi there,

I'm not sure what your definition of a "scam" is, but if you break
the rules that you've agreed to, that's a very interesting choice of words,
and an outright slanderous claim.

This is one of the most common bonus rules in any casino and we remind players
on the chat when they come ask, and the terms and conditions of the bonus are
displayed in multiple places of the website.

To make a technical implementation about a limit takes a lot of time and resources
but it's in the making. The pop-up functionality won't be able to get sorted in the mobile
in the near function as it's not supported, but the desktop pop-up warning for going over
the limit will be faster for us to develop.

Mike

The rule is bullshit, but you didn't make it and I doubt you (you, as in Bitstarz) could change it even if you wanted.  Right?
Am I wrong  or would a decision like that be made by the same people that are running many other casinos ( Direx N.V. or Softswiss maybe?, or are they the same people?  )

It may seem like a normal rule every casino has to you, but I can assure you that you will only find it at unregulated casinos, or casinos that might as well be unregulated from a players perspective.

Let's just assume that "Bitstarz" really wants to be an honest Casino and for some reason they aren't allowed to change this max bet rule.

If they were to take the following three steps, I think they would have a valid argument that what their doing isn't wrong or require any (omg) technical implementation.

1.) Tell every single player that violates the rule.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but, if a player deposits $500, receives a bonus, and loses it playing $10 hands of blackjack, you don't bother to let him know his $500 was torched the minute the first card was dealt, do you?

What if he does it 20 more times over the next year before finally getting lucky and clearing the bonus with a balance of $5k?
See where I'm going with this?  See how fucked up it is to do this to your players?


2.) Put the same amount of effort into making sure players are aware your deposit bonuses as they are this max bet rule.  

Right now a lawyer could easily spend hours studying your terms and conditions and not even be aware this rule exists.

Don't believe me?

Scroll down to the bottom of your site (where the t&c are traditionally found)
Click on terms and conditions and read the whole thing.
https://www.bitstarz.com/terms

Wow, you're fast!, that was 4,506 words.
The word "bonus" was used 17 times.  
No mention of max bet rule though. Not even a link to somewhere else that mentions it.

Maybe in the FAQ that has a separate "Bonus Section"?
Nope, not even under FAQ: Bonuses ("Why are you keeping my money?" might be a good one to add)

To find this max bet rule, one must click on "Terms and Condition" that's found in the promo advertisements.  (Not the bottom of the page)
These seperate T&C are 2,059 words long, the rule can be found around word #1,578.

Until the play through requirements have been met, the maximum bet that can be placed is 5 EUR/GBP/USD/CAD/AUD, 50 SEK/NOK. When it comes to Bitcoin players the maximum bet is 25 mBTC (0.025 BTC).  

(25 mbtc is like 14 euro btw)

Also you're banners need to looks something like this:




PS: There's a bunch of other little scummy  non-transparent tactics I found if you're interested.  Other casinos start ignoring me about now so, thought I'd ask.

Well findings, they claimed max wager of X; X is not told to everyone, so next time they can change to 20mbtc or 10mbtc, if people have won 50 btc. Bitstarz, it is serious fraud issue, you fraud us, fraud =scam, so answer of your question is here.

Dude no.

No.

Read the post, not just the pictures please.  I just put X because I was lazy at the moment.  I don't think they've ever changed the actual maximums.

I edited that Banner, this is what the original looks like at https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions

[bitstars.net]

Hi there,

Again, this is one of the most common rules at online casinos. I would recommend
checking the terms and conditions at other online casinos and I'm sure you'll see the same one.

We do our best to inform players about this rule, but you'd be surprised to hear that ways
that we and many are obvious when it comes to displaying this, there's always going to
be players not noticing it.

Again, we always write out that terms and conditions apply, remind people on the chat when
we're discussing bonuses, etc.

Mike

[bitstars.net]

Hi again,

Here's the rule:

http://screencast.com/t/R30vMvXXl

It can be found here:

http://screencast.com/t/u8LITm1F

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/QPxaGmm8Zai

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/BYqArtEf

And here:

http://screencast.com/t/ugdsbxsOZos

There are many more spots, but you get the point.

You also have to realize that we cannot type out all the terms and conditions on the
promotions page as it will look like a big mess, hence having a terms and conditions
link in a lot of places on the page.

And even though you can always argue that this particular point should be visible,
everyone with a rule that relates specifically to their case would wish the same thing.

Mike

[TwitchySeal]

Mike,

How many casinos can you name that have this rule and aren't using softswiss software?  I'll give you a list 10x as long of casinos that don't and would lose their license if they did.

The rule exists only to be violated.  It doesn't protect the casino from anything, it does create a potential vulnerability in players for you to exploit.  It's predatory.

In the short run Im sure it seems like a brilliant idea.  But it's not only damaging your rep, it's turning people off from gambling for bitcoin and even just bitcoin.

I know you didn't write the rules or decide where they are displayed, but please, pay attention to this:

Unless a player has already landed on https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions, any hyperlink within the site titled "Terms & Conditions" will bring them to: https://www.bitstarz.com/terms
(this is the 4,000+ word version that does not mention the max bet rule)

If a player navigates to https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions, then clicks on "Terms & Conditions" next to a specific promotion (not on the bottom of the page) they will remain on https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions and a popup with BONUS TERMS AND CONDITIONS will appear.  (it's 2,000+ words, with this rule located on the bottom third)

Your promotional emails link directly to https://www.bitstarz.com/bonus-terms-and-conditions, which is the same as the pop-up one would get from https://www.bitstarz.com/promotions

So...Some of your examples below, like the Terms link when signing up, will never bring you to the max bet rule.  And some of them will bring only those who have already navigated to /promotions page.

Example, before signing up, a user checks out terms and conditions:
(lands on https://www.bitstarz.com/terms reads 4,000 words, is not informed of max bet)



PS: Some of Your Betsoft Progressive Jackpots are fraudulent (For example, 1% is getting taken by Betsoft while GlamLife, Some of the Larger Greedy Goblins and Bad Girl Jackpots are unwinnable, also Pocketdice just scammed a player for BTC102, you should drop them both as providers.  I'll be back to explain soon, or you could research it yourself.

[bitstars.net]

Hi there,

Fair enough, we're willing to do what we can to make this rule more visible, so
we'll be adding it to the deposit page, so you can see it when you deposit, and
also the general terms area.

We're also working on a technical solution for this of course.

Any other place?

Mike