Bitstarz Removes 3.45 Btc Balance According to Breaking Bonus Terms

[ndnh]

I just didn’t know about it myself, but that was my stupid mistake, not theirs. Why should they get blamed if I don’t read the rules? Anyways, like I said, that was nice of them.

Ok. So you unknowingly broke a rule that they've punished other people for doing so, but you fortunately got a free pass (probably because they calculated the life time value of having you as a customer is greater than the amount of your withdrawal). But I'm just going to project here a little, and I suspect if had been like one of the other guys who lost 3.45 (like the OP) and 20 (?) bitcoin due to the very same mistake you wouldn't be so happy.


Anyway, obviously they don't screw over /all/ their players, that just wouldn't make business sense. It's probably pretty safe to assume for every 1 customer they royally screw, there's another 10,000 they don't. But that doesn't make it ok. You don't get brownie points for doing the right thing.


--

(And for everyone, I apologize for keep beating this horse, as they've already said they're finally going to fix the problem, which is fantastic. I just find it mind blowing that anyone could defend what is obviously highly predatory behavior and selective enforcement)

LOL @ highly predatory behavior. The casino is giving the player bonus funds. They can set whatever terms they want on it. Its the player that chose to take the bonus and thereby responsible for knowing the rules of the bonus. If a player chooses he can simply NOT take a bonus and alleviate any problems when it comes time to cashout. Is that to hard to understand?

No, but at the same time, the player has some rights on his money. The behavior was obviously predatory, although there are other casinos with similar predatory terms, none actually enforce them like they did. Some terms are expected to be enforced only when necessary to prevent abuse or fraud.

[bitstars.net]

I just didn’t know about it myself, but that was my stupid mistake, not theirs. Why should they get blamed if I don’t read the rules? Anyways, like I said, that was nice of them.

Ok. So you unknowingly broke a rule that they've punished other people for doing so, but you fortunately got a free pass (probably because they calculated the life time value of having you as a customer is greater than the amount of your withdrawal). But I'm just going to project here a little, and I suspect if had been like one of the other guys who lost 3.45 (like the OP) and 20 (?) bitcoin due to the very same mistake you wouldn't be so happy.


Anyway, obviously they don't screw over /all/ their players, that just wouldn't make business sense. It's probably pretty safe to assume for every 1 customer they royally screw, there's another 10,000 they don't. But that doesn't make it ok. You don't get brownie points for doing the right thing.


--

(And for everyone, I apologize for keep beating this horse, as they've already said they're finally going to fix the problem, which is fantastic. I just find it mind blowing that anyone could defend what is obviously highly predatory behavior and selective enforcement)

LOL @ highly predatory behavior. The casino is giving the player bonus funds. They can set whatever terms they want on it. Its the player that chose to take the bonus and thereby responsible for knowing the rules of the bonus. If a player chooses he can simply NOT take a bonus and alleviate any problems when it comes time to cashout. Is that to hard to understand?

No, but at the same time, the player has some rights on his money. The behavior was obviously predatory, although there are other casinos with similar predatory terms, none actually enforce them like they did. Some terms are expected to be enforced only when necessary to prevent abuse or fraud.

Hi there,

We've been over this so many times now. But I'll say it again. Max bet with bonus is a common thing, and the major casinos
out there are doing it. Technical implementations to get it restricted technically takes time, but it's on the way. Ultimately
it's the player's responsibility to follow the terms of the site they're using, and it doesn't go for just casinos, it goes for Netflix,
iTunes, or whatever you may use.

If you do not agree with the terms, then perhaps another site will suit you better.

Mike

[bitstars.net]

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

[TwitchySeal]

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

[ndnh]

Hi there,

We've been over this so many times now. But I'll say it again. Max bet with bonus is a common thing, and the major casinos
out there are doing it. Technical implementations to get it restricted technically takes time, but it's on the way. Ultimately
it's the player's responsibility to follow the terms of the site they're using, and it doesn't go for just casinos, it goes for Netflix,
iTunes, or whatever you may use.

If you do not agree with the terms, then perhaps another site will suit you better.

Mike

I was replying to Trayber and I was using the past tense.

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

+1

[worthyou]

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

This topic will remain open and i'll keep posting until bitstarz pays my stolen funds and rebuild their system for prevention on max bet thing.

You are not legit while you seize customers' funds.

[bitstars.net]

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

Hi there,

You only get bonuses if you set your account to receive bonuses and tick the tick-box
on the deposit page that states that you wish to receive bonuses. On top of that, if you
made a deposit of 50 mBTC and without making any bet, you have 100 mBTC in your balance, I'd personally
would start to ask question as to how I doubled my money without placing a bet. Especially
since the bonuses are also displayed on the deposit page with the terms and conditions.

Furthermore, the player has the opportunity to forfeit the bonus without consequence prior
to starting to place any game rounds and also have the opportunity to forfeit their bonus and
winnings from bonus and withdraw their cash at a later stage.

Mike

[bitstars.net]

Hi there,

We've been over this so many times now. But I'll say it again. Max bet with bonus is a common thing, and the major casinos
out there are doing it. Technical implementations to get it restricted technically takes time, but it's on the way. Ultimately
it's the player's responsibility to follow the terms of the site they're using, and it doesn't go for just casinos, it goes for Netflix,
iTunes, or whatever you may use.

If you do not agree with the terms, then perhaps another site will suit you better.

Mike

I was replying to Trayber and I was using the past tense.

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

+1

I apologize!

[TwitchySeal]

Hi all,

Very valid point earlier that I'd like to mention again. The max bonus only applied
to BONUSES. If you play with cash money, you can play however you like and withdraw
anytime you like. Accepting bonuses is not mandatory, it's voluntarily.

Mike

And automatic.

Hi there,

You only get bonuses if you set your account to receive bonuses and tick the tick-box
on the deposit page that states that you wish to receive bonuses. On top of that, if you
made a deposit of 50 mBTC and without making any bet, you have 100 mBTC in your balance, I'd personally
would start to ask question as to how I doubled my money without placing a bet. Especially
since the bonuses are also displayed on the deposit page with the terms and conditions.

Furthermore, the player has the opportunity to forfeit the bonus without consequence prior
to starting to place any game rounds and also have the opportunity to forfeit their bonus and
winnings from bonus and withdraw their cash at a later stage.

Mike

Mike,

A player that goes to bitstarz.com, clicks on terms and conditions, reads all 5,290 words before checking the box to agree.


They will not be aware of your max bet rule and they will automatically be given a bonus with their deposit.

unless

They decline the bonus by checking this box:



or

they find their way to part 3, section 12 of the separate bonus terms (over 2,000 words total)

Worst case scenario for them, imo, is they actually win a little bit and you decide to let them slide.

They make several more deposits, violating the rule each time before finally having a big win.

Then they find out.

[RHavar]

This topic will remain open and i'll keep posting until bitstarz pays my stolen funds and rebuild their system for prevention on max bet thing.

I think your behavior is rather inappropriate. Yes, you were undoubtedly ripped off, and I'm sorry that it happened to you. However, you were paid out in full with a generous gesture by betking. At this point, you're no longer out of pocket and continually campaigning to have them pay you doesn't sit right with me.

If you want to campaign that they reimburse betking, or pay out all the other people who were in your exact position (which they damn well should!) but were not so lucky as to have someone donate them the money; then I'd fully support you. But demanding they pay you to close the thread, is just being opportunistic.

[win win win]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

[TwitchySeal]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yeah.  Disappointed and slightly surprised.  Would expect that kind of behavior from any other softswiss site I guess.  So only slightly.

This topic will remain open and i'll keep posting until bitstarz pays my stolen funds and rebuild their system for prevention on max bet thing.

I think your behavior is rather inappropriate. Yes, you were undoubtedly ripped off, and I'm sorry that it happened to you. However, you were paid out in full with a generous gesture by betking. At this point, you're no longer out of pocket and continually campaigning to have them pay you doesn't sit right with me.

If you want to campaign that they reimburse betking, or pay out all the other people who were in your exact position (which they damn well should!) but were not so lucky as to have someone donate them the money; then I'd fully support you. But demanding they pay you to close the thread, is just being opportunistic.

+1

[BetKing.io]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yet they are in all the top 5 lists you see on so called Bitcoin gambling news and review sites

Just goes to show how shady the whole industry is.
Just pay enough money to the top ranked google sites and you can keep running your scams.

[joksim299]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yet they are in all the top 5 lists you see on so called Bitcoin gambling news and review sites

Just goes to show how shady the whole industry is.
Just pay enough money to the top ranked google sites and you can keep running your scams.

Its easy for them to get on top of the lists when they pay with unfairly seized players money.
Try commenting anything against them at AskGamblers and they will not approve your comment.
Sites are ranked how much they pay or how great is their affiliate deal. Legitimate review sites are rare.

[BetKing.io]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yet they are in all the top 5 lists you see on so called Bitcoin gambling news and review sites

Just goes to show how shady the whole industry is.
Just pay enough money to the top ranked google sites and you can keep running your scams.

Its easy for them to get on top of the lists when they pay with unfairly seized players money.
Try commenting anything against them at AskGamblers and they will not approve your comment.
Sites are ranked how much they pay or how great is their affiliate deal. Legitimate review sites are rare.

Yeah exactly. It's why you don't really see BetKing (and other legit sites) on these kind of sites.
Not sure what can be done really. Would be good to setup something legit with no affiliate links and no paid to advertise.
But the cost of SEO to rank higher than these sites would probably be huge.

Also probably not worth bothering about

[win win win]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yet they are in all the top 5 lists you see on so called Bitcoin gambling news and review sites

Just goes to show how shady the whole industry is.
Just pay enough money to the top ranked google sites and you can keep running your scams.

Its easy for them to get on top of the lists when they pay with unfairly seized players money.
Try commenting anything against them at AskGamblers and they will not approve your comment.
Sites are ranked how much they pay or how great is their affiliate deal. Legitimate review sites are rare.

Yeah you are right askgamblers are going the same way casinomeister went, Just scum bags trying to get affiliate profits acting like they are some sort of regulation, But delete and ban players that have legitimate issues from sites that pay them to advertise.

I have been thinking about making such a site Dean, A review and complaint site for gambling sites without affiliate links or paid ads.
Just dealing with real player issues day in and day out would bring too much negativity to my life.

[bitstars.net]

Did bitstarz close their main thread? That is a horrible decision to take, A casino should never cut off communication.
I thought they were starting to get their act together by requesting Net entertainment to change their software so they could enforce max bet rules during bonus wagering, But with this sort of action shows they aren't committed to the player at all.

Yet they are in all the top 5 lists you see on so called Bitcoin gambling news and review sites

Just goes to show how shady the whole industry is.
Just pay enough money to the top ranked google sites and you can keep running your scams.

Its easy for them to get on top of the lists when they pay with unfairly seized players money.
Try commenting anything against them at AskGamblers and they will not approve your comment.
Sites are ranked how much they pay or how great is their affiliate deal. Legitimate review sites are rare.

Yeah you are right askgamblers are going the same way casinomeister went, Just scum bags trying to get affiliate profits acting like they are some sort of regulation, But delete and ban players that have legitimate issues from sites that pay them to advertise.

I have been thinking about making such a site Dean, A review and complaint site for gambling sites without affiliate links or paid ads.
Just dealing with real player issues day in and day out would bring too much negativity to my life.

Hi there,

I mean, you're free to believe whatever you want. But looking objectively at some of the largest advocates for fair play (thinking
especially of CM who's been there since the 90s) and claiming that they're just a bunch of scum bags, then I'd might ask myself
who should revise their arguments here.

On top of that, we at BitStarz is a fairly small player looking at the casinos that AG and CM are dealing with, and there's no way
that they'd take our side in this if they weren't sure we're right. They would never jeopardize their reputation to defend such a
minor casino like us.

Then again, you've got you own opinion, which you of course are entitled to. But looking at their experience dealing with cases
like this over the years, I'd at least listen to their arguments and ask myself why sites that have been around for decades aren't
seeing things from the same perspective.

BitStarz

[win win win]

Why don't you hire someone to manage your PR, You seem to be failing pretty hard at listening to players that aren't restricted to complain about things they want changed so it's not a industry wide acceptance that you can steal a large sum of money from a player!

I won't be playing at your casino in the future after your last comment. Gambling budget of 5-10k USD per month and any other player that has half a brain that reads that will be inclined to do the same.

 

[camosoul]

Why don't you hire someone to manage your PR, You seem to be failing pretty hard at listening to players that aren't restricted to complain about things they want changed so it's not a industry wide acceptance that you can steal a large sum of money from a player!

I won't be playing at your casino in the future after your last comment. Gambling budget of 5-10k USD per month and any other player that has half a brain that reads that will be inclined to do the same.

 

Didn't they already say they were implementing a fix for the issue and working on it as we speak so this won't happen in the future and bets made using bonus funds will be restricted to the amounts the ToS require? Pretty sure they did.

It's also pretty disingenuous to say they "stole" a large sum of money from a player when it was that player who failed to follow the rules. Read the rules and ask questions if you don't understand them. That would save a lot of hassle. Regardless, if they implement a technical fix that keeps this from happening in the future, then that's pretty good on them.

[RHavar]

Didn't they already say they were implementing a fix for the issue and working on it as we speak so this won't happen in the future and bets made using bonus funds will be restricted to the amounts the ToS require? Pretty sure they did.

Sure, but the fact remains that they still haven't fixed it or compensated people for the money they unfairly took.

I like how your last 6 posts have all been defending a quasi scam, I hope you're at least getting paid for it