Bitcoin IS basically DESTROYED

[LiberOptions]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

[X badapple X]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

Only if they're all paying the same price for electricity. Actual range is from 0 (stolen/dorm/mom's basement) to below $.02 (China, hearsay) to probably as high as $.07?

[keyscore44]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

Once the halving takes place we will see a lot of old miners getting of the boat. It wioll be uprofitable to mine for most of the oldest mining hardware. Since a lot of people will stop mining with their old hardware the most efficient miners will still be profitable!

Only if they're all paying the same price for electricity. Actual range is from 0 (stolen/dorm/mom's basement) to below $.02 (China, hearsay) to probably as high as $.07?

Yes, it is, but it is not only about electricity price. With so high difficulty maybe even more important is equipment performance. Everyone know that S5 now is in troubles.
On the market will stay the one who will win the technological race.
(In my opinion because of that Bitmain still not disclose S9)

[Mike8]

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth.  What is there to add ?

~CfA~


UPDATE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14789764#msg14789764

Bitcoin is destroyed.
Dash is a scam coin.
Ethereum is basically a bunch of bad code that should not even work.

I keep reading these things and still, all there coins seem to have huge success.
Meanwhile some coins that seem to be interesting, innovating, legit, are almost unknown and their price is less than pennies.

[DimensionZ]

I wonder how many coins the Chinese miners are left with after they have paid their electricity bills at the end of the month and any expenses that go into maintaining and replacing bad hardware. I highly doubt it that the Chinese would like losing their business and their profits by initiating a 51% attack on the Bitcoin network.

[Akupuniard]

It's seems like a nonsense, even if China controll 70%, is it problem to keep mining for yourself or even move to china? I think people just trying to hype on nonsense news

[kik1977]

Bitcoin initially was probably mostly US controlled (=mined), doesn't look like it was the end of it.

[Amph]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

they are currently making 4 x($180 revenue vs $45 consumption) their consumption, in revenue....

[27QVUTZj8rgZP1]

It's seems like a nonsense, even if China controll 70%, is it problem to keep mining for yourself or even move to china? I think people just trying to hype on nonsense news

I think they are treating China as a single person, company, or whatever.

If Bitcoin becomes "centralized" or a thing you do not like, you can always move to an "altcoin" or FORK IT!.

That would not be so easy if it becomes "mainstream" because the "mainstream" fraction of the population are ignorant and will not care about that at all, as a result they will allow centralization and dictatorship to take place. Especially if the effects are negligible to their experience and daily usage.

Just my opinion.

[Chrismeister]

Bitcoin is basically destroyed now with 70% of the mining controlled by China, soon to be 98+%, and with Blockstream implementing their SegWit soft fork Trojan Horse so as Matonis admits can end up increasing the 21 million coins limit.

The entire ecosystem is headed for a clusterfuck.

I honestly believe this is the truth.  What is there to add ?

~CfA~


UPDATE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1465136.msg14789764#msg14789764

bitcoins are not basically destroyed but there is just one thing they need to get a come back and that is more publicity not only on the tv but also on the internet and commercials. I don't see anything about coins in the internet in commercials that has to be for a new fresh start,

[pariahbit]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

Miners with .1 cent electricity? $0.001? Why would they keep mining? They aught to be out riding their unicorns.

[LoyceV]

the ones who control most bitcoins has more to lose.

Miners aren't necessarily the ones who control most bitcoins! The early adopters control a large amount, the future miners have less than one-third of bitcoins left to mine the rest of this century.

"Controlling most of bitcoins" and "controlling Bitcoin" are two totally different things. Satoshi, for instance, controls around a million BTC, but he doesn't control Bitcoin's day-to-day functioning any more than the guy with .01 BTC, the miners do tho. They stop -- no more Bitcoin. That's why the halvening is going to be so interesting: either the price of BTC has to spontaneously double, or roughly half of the miners have to close up shop.

I think the halving is already calculated in by the miners in their estimate for their profit. So shortly the hash rate may not go up much, or even down a bit, but after that it will just continue up again. I see no reason to instantly double the value, just like that didn't happen at the previous halving.

[InternationalBankAlliance]

the ones who control most bitcoins has more to lose.

Miners aren't necessarily the ones who control most bitcoins! The early adopters control a large amount, the future miners have less than one-third of bitcoins left to mine the rest of this century.

"Controlling most of bitcoins" and "controlling Bitcoin" are two totally different things. Satoshi, for instance, controls around a million BTC, but he doesn't control Bitcoin's day-to-day functioning any more than the guy with .01 BTC, the miners do tho. They stop -- no more Bitcoin. That's why the halvening is going to be so interesting: either the price of BTC has to spontaneously double, or roughly half of the miners have to close up shop.

I think the halving is already calculated in by the miners in their estimate for their profit. So shortly the hash rate may not go up much, or even down a bit, but after that it will just continue up again. I see no reason to instantly double the value, just like that didn't happen at the previous halving.

It doesn't matter what the miners estimated, one of two things has to [eventually] happen:
1. Bitcoin price must double (so the miners will continue being as profitable at 12.5 coins as they were at 25)
2. Hash rate must halve (so that the remaining miners will be just as likely to solve two 12.5BTC blocks as they were to solve one 25BTC block).

This doesn't need to be spontaneous, some large miners may continue mining at a loss, in hopes that their competitors will go broke and fold first, but eventually nothing other than some combination of (1) and (2) is possible.

[Amph]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

Miners with .1 cent electricity? $0.001? Why would they keep mining? They aught to be out riding their unicorns.

you didn't grasp at all what i was saying, i was saying that even mienr with 0.1 electricity would profit after the halving, let alone chinese farm with 0.05 or lower

0.1 cent is = $0.1 btw not 0.001...

[Cryddit]

I wonder how many coins the Chinese miners are left with after they have paid their electricity bills at the end of the month and any expenses that go into maintaining and replacing bad hardware. I highly doubt it that the Chinese would like losing their business and their profits by initiating a 51% attack on the Bitcoin network.

The 51% attack works only if nobody notices you're doing it.  That's why people keep looking at the pool percentages to make sure no single pool goes over 51%. 

But it's easy to arrange things so none of those numbers go over 51%.  All you need do is put some fraction of the 51% attack under the name of a different pool.

If 70% of the hashing is being done at the same immense data center, in a business owned by the same set of people, I really don't give a crap if they pretend to be two or three different pools.  The 51% is a reality. They allow other people to get blocks only as often as they have to in order to avoid arousing suspicion.

[LoyceV]

0.1 cent is = $0.1 btw not 0.001...

It's a common (and confusing) mistake, but that doesn't make it right. Unless you think 0.1 cm = 0.1 m = 10 cm, or 0.1 dollarcent = 0.1 dollar = 10 dollarcent.

[pariahbit]

Even if China controlls 80% of the mining power that doesn't mean that we should fear a 51% attack. Do you actually think that the guys who control mining, being Chinese or not want a 51% attack??? of course not, otherwise their investment would be worth 0....

Come the halvening, their investment will be worth 0 (unless other miners stop mining/BTC price doubles), so not that improbable :-

no, you don't know what you're talking about, after the halving miners with 0.1 cent in electricity can still mine for good profit

Miners with .1 cent electricity? $0.001? Why would they keep mining? They aught to be out riding their unicorns.

you didn't grasp at all what i was saying, i was saying that even mienr with 0.1 electricity would profit after the halving, let alone chinese farm with 0.05 or lower

0.1 cent is = $0.1 btw not 0.001...

1 dollar is 100 cents, the word cent , according to MW, means:
"a unit of money that is equal to 1/100 of the basic unit of money in many countries : one percent of a dollar, euro, rupee, etc."

The word cent has a Latin root, centum, 100. That's where the Roman numeral "C" comes from. See how things start to make more sense (no pun) as you learn things?

The prefix "centi" comes from the same word, but here it means 1/100. Like a cent is " 1/100 of the basic unit of money," centimeter is 1/100 of a meter, centigram is 1/100 of a gram, etc., etc.

So next time you get the urge to teach me about my own money, mining, or anything else for that matter, show some restraint, K?

[katrimans]

The globalist elite are moving us towards a one world reserve currency new world order of control (and Bitcoin won't be the world's reserve currency, but rather is a digital totalitarian currency of global exchange not a reserve currency). China and Singapore will take over power from the West. We are entering a more totalitarian Technocracy world. There will be a smart meter on every home, etc..

Do you expect a basket of currencies as MA has suggested, or something else?

1. I agree doing nothing is not a solution. I am trying to do something, but my design requires that there be very significant transactions since the unprofitable proof-of-work share (not a block solution!) is sent with each transaction. So if I launch the thing with nearly no adoption and just HODLers, then it can be easily attacked by botnets. Thus before I can make the CC, I need to first create something that could drive a lot of demand for the use of the CC.

I came to the same conclusion. In addition, I would argue that anonymity must be incorporated or the system will suffer the same protocol attacks Bitcoin is currently experiencing. Even with anonymity it is possible that protocol erosion could occur.

A technical attack without anonymity could simply filter known addresses (and optionally, linked ones) at the centralised verification level, causing enough delay in transactions that participants will opt for a "new, improved version" that delegates power more directly to centralisation. With anonymity that isn't as easy, but there will probably be enough information gleaned through other methods to target the intended subject.

I'm left wondering whether a ZK routing method wouldn't be more effective. Of course, that might entail rebuilding the Internet as we know it.

That said, unprofitable PoW is currently be the best option enforcing skin-in-the-game.

I have a doubt in chinese exchanges

[jak1]

China didn't design the ASIC, the mining to say the least, software is provided by western. Just utilize their production capacity.
Even 98% hash from China, they are not from the same group. Last tie I read, the money/technology backing up the operation is from western.

I don't know where we will end up with all this. China definitely owns mining. If bitcoin controlled by china,why dont we go to china?or at least we can consolidate with china,and ask them have a good control. i dont think china is  trying to control bitcoin because i'm sure china know that bitcoin cannot controlled. We all want bitcoins to be mined no matter  where they are mined.

[Superbitzz]

China didn't design the ASIC, the mining to say the least, software is provided by western. Just utilize their production capacity.
Even 98% hash from China, they are not from the same group. Last tie I read, the money/technology backing up the operation is from western.

I don't know where we will end up with all this. China definitely owns mining. If bitcoin controlled by china,why dont we go to china?or at least we can consolidate with china,and ask them have a good control. i dont think china is  trying to control bitcoin because i'm sure china know that bitcoin cannot controlled. We all want bitcoins to be mined no matter  where they are mined.

yes it is so. but why should we believe this. when there is nothing wrong about bitcoin still everthing is ok and their no such worries or sign which show us that bitcoin is dropping or destroying. so we shout not give any value to these thing but we should concentrate to your mining an bitcoin grading.