caveden
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March 20, 2013, 08:25:04 AM |
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Can you think of a fairest way to deal with a bank failure than what I describe above? Yes. The way every civilized country does it. Honor the value of insured accounts, and if the bank can't, the government honors the insurance policy on them. But that's far from "civilized", it's much worse! Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue! These "account deposit insurances" are an outright lie, an illusion. It's better that people wake up to reality and realize there's nothing guaranteed in life. No, what you say is not a better solution. Bank clients will have to suffer losses if you want anything fair as outcome. Of course, it's fundamental that current shareholders lose everything, but I have a feeling that such thing just won't happen, unfortunately.
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caveden
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March 20, 2013, 08:29:32 AM |
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The issue is that the government promised to make depositors whole in the event of a bank failure by providing them with deposit insurance and then reneged on that obligation.
That promise is void since they have no actual means to ethically fulfill them, ever. To fulfill it, they would have to steal innocent people that have nothing to do with the problem. So, in the end, "bank deposit insurances" are just another politician's lie. People must understand that. This would be equivalent to the United States postponing its social security problem by declaring a 10% tax on social security payments and implementing the tax by reducing those payments.
And do you honestly believe that something of the kind (or worse) won't happen someday? The social security is a clock-bomb ticking. It will blow one day. You can't run away from reality.
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Vladimir
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March 20, 2013, 08:53:02 AM |
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Cyprus has sensationally rejected the terms of its bailout, with 36 MPs voting against the plan, and 19 government MPs abstaining ( source). They literally said "fu*ck off" to the proposals of nazi-chancellor-bitch. Indeed! In the the times of universal deceit a little bit of common sense is sensational indeed.
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ErisDiscordia
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Imposition of ORder = Escalation of Chaos
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March 20, 2013, 09:27:11 AM |
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Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)
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It's all bullshit. But bullshit makes the flowers grow and that's beautiful.
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Vladimir
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March 20, 2013, 09:36:30 AM |
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Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)
It is not about insolvency of Cypriotic banks. It is about insolvency of Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, Italian, French, Dutch, German, Britsih, American and Japanese banks. Get it?
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rpietila
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March 20, 2013, 10:02:43 AM |
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Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)
It is not about insolvency of Cypriotic banks. It is about insolvency of Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, Italian, French, Dutch, German, Britsih, American and Japanese banks. Get it? Yes. All banks should fail, because: http://www.professorfekete.com/The Greatest Living Monetary Scientist.
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HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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justusranvier
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March 20, 2013, 01:01:24 PM |
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And do you honestly believe that something of the kind (or worse) won't happen someday? The social security is a clock-bomb ticking. It will blow one day. You can't run away from reality. The political promises of the USA are worth exactly as much as the political promises of the USSR.
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mobodick
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March 20, 2013, 01:39:23 PM |
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The issue is that the government promised to make depositors whole in the event of a bank failure by providing them with deposit insurance and then reneged on that obligation.
That promise is void since they have no actual means to ethically fulfill them, ever. To fulfill it, they would have to steal innocent people that have nothing to do with the problem. So, in the end, "bank deposit insurances" are just another politician's lie. People must understand that. And the banks lie as well, never forget that. The banks didn't even reneg on the deal. They just closed their doors and completely disrespect their promise to give people back the money they borrowed. They lost their play money and now they come asking society for more. You people seem to want to give blame to governments but it is actually the incredibly sick financial world that is the root of most of these problems. Was it governments that decided to mix sub-prime morgages into cool looking but seemingly unrelated constructs? Was it governments that were wallowing for years in profits from these derivatives? No it wasn't, it was the greed that is cultivated in our financial institutions. And this greed is so deeply rooted in everything in society that even governments have no real power over these entities.
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Peter Lambert
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March 20, 2013, 06:03:27 PM |
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Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue!
Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).
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Use CoinBR to trade bitcoin stocks: CoinBR.comThe best place for betting with bitcoin: BitBet.us
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justusranvier
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March 20, 2013, 06:13:55 PM |
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The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree). This is the root of all the madness in the world. First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead.
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niko
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March 20, 2013, 06:22:51 PM |
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The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree). This is the root of all the madness in the world. First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead. This is how most sane people operate. They decide what they would like things to be like, then they check if that's the case. If not, they act to try to correct the things to their liking. In the example above, Peter Lambert noted that he saw a problem with how governments operate, and proposed a cure (not specific, though).
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They're there, in their room. Your mining rig is on fire, yet you're very calm.
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mobodick
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March 20, 2013, 06:24:25 PM |
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Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue!
Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree). My government provides a lot more than just law and order. Schooling, jobs, housing, clean water and then some. Just saying.
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justusranvier
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March 20, 2013, 06:27:38 PM |
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This is how most sane people operate. They decide what they would like things to be like, then they check if that's the case. If not, they act to try to correct the things to their liking. In the example above, Peter Lambert noted that he saw a problem with how governments operate, and proposed a cure (not specific, though). That's only sanity if you define "sane as "doing the same thing again and expecting a different result."
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mobodick
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March 20, 2013, 06:29:41 PM |
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The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree). This is the root of all the madness in the world. First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead. con·text /ˈkäntekst/ Noun The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed. The parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.
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rpietila
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March 20, 2013, 08:36:19 PM |
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HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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stevegee58
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March 20, 2013, 08:40:31 PM |
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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! My eyes are bleeding from seeing Finnish!
Levity aside, were you basically saying that holding gold instead of Euros was safest at this point?
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You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
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rpietila
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March 20, 2013, 08:58:39 PM |
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English translation: Hopea.fi, a vendor selling investment gold and silver, is suspending the sales of investment gold for now. The reason is Cyprus bank crisis. "This has become too risky. In dealing with gold, the money involved is bigger than in dealing with silver, therefore I need a lot of cash to operate it. At the moment, having big accont balances in Euro is not prudent", says Risto Pietilä, Managing Director of the said company. Hopea.fi, est. 2006, has annual sales in the tune of EUR 1 million. Due to the small volume, the financial situation of the company warrants being cautious. The banking crisis has further increased this. The selling and buying of investment silver continues unabated, because in silver, the average trade is smaller and markup is higher. Also the selling [actually: buying] of scrap gold is unaffected. Last time the company saw suspension of gold sales, was in autumn 2008, also then due to worldwide banking crisis. Pietilä thinks the gold sales will be restored in maybe a few weeks. "It is dependent on whether there is a bank run in Euro area. I consider it possible. The foreign depositors may withdraw their money from Cypriot banks as soon as it is possible.", Pietilä says. "At any rate, having large EUR balances in this situation is stupid. If the Russian depositors are bailed out using ECB funds, the markets get the signal that the easing will continue, leading to erosion of the value of currency. On the other hand, letting the Cyprus banks fail will induce fears that also our deposits will be cut in the future", he continues. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! My eyes are bleeding from seeing Finnish!
Levity aside, were you basically saying that holding gold instead of Euros was safest at this point?
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HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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coinuser4000
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March 21, 2013, 06:47:09 AM |
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Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree). [/quote]
What happens when it's your government that is the robber?
I don't see why anyone would leave money in a bank after this. Let the mattress stuffing begin...
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