European Union is robbing its citizens' bank accounts. 9.9% to be confiscated.

[caveden]

Can you think of a fairest way to deal with a bank failure than what I describe above?

Yes.  The way every civilized country does it.  Honor the value of insured accounts, and if the bank can't, the government honors the insurance policy on them.  

But that's far from "civilized", it's much worse!

Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue!

These "account deposit insurances" are an outright lie, an illusion. It's better that people wake up to reality and realize there's nothing guaranteed in life.

No, what you say is not a better solution. Bank clients will have to suffer losses if you want anything fair as outcome. Of course, it's fundamental that current shareholders lose everything, but I have a feeling that such thing just won't happen, unfortunately.

[caveden]

The issue is that the government promised to make depositors whole in the event of a bank failure by providing them with deposit insurance and then reneged on that obligation.

That promise is void since they have no actual means to ethically fulfill them, ever. To fulfill it, they would have to steal innocent people that have nothing to do with the problem.

So, in the end, "bank deposit insurances" are just another politician's lie. People must understand that.

This would be equivalent to the United States postponing its social security problem by declaring a 10% tax on social security payments and implementing the tax by reducing those payments.

And do you honestly believe that something of the kind (or worse) won't happen someday? The social security is a clock-bomb ticking. It will blow one day. You can't run away from reality.

[Vladimir]

Cyprus has sensationally rejected the terms of its bailout, with 36 MPs voting against the plan, and 19 government MPs abstaining (source).

They literally said "fu*ck off" to the proposals of nazi-chancellor-bitch.

Indeed! In the the times of universal deceit a little bit of common sense is sensational indeed.   

[ErisDiscordia]

Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)

[Vladimir]

Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)

It is not about insolvency of Cypriotic banks. It is about insolvency of Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, Italian, French, Dutch, German, Britsih, American and Japanese banks. Get it?

[rpietila]

Overextended banks need to fail and people who were stupid enough to trust them with their money need to learn from their mistake (or repeat it, whichever they like!)

It is not about insolvency of Cypriotic banks. It is about insolvency of Greek, Spanish, Portuguese, Irish, Italian, French, Dutch, German, Britsih, American and Japanese banks. Get it?

Yes. All banks should fail, because:
http://www.professorfekete.com/

The Greatest Living Monetary Scientist.

[Vladimir]

this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbBngknGk54

The most interesting stuff is closer to the end of this 10 minute speech. Nothing new, of course.

[justusranvier]

And do you honestly believe that something of the kind (or worse) won't happen someday? The social security is a clock-bomb ticking. It will blow one day. You can't run away from reality.

The political promises of the USA are worth exactly as much as the political promises of the USSR.

[mobodick]

The issue is that the government promised to make depositors whole in the event of a bank failure by providing them with deposit insurance and then reneged on that obligation.

That promise is void since they have no actual means to ethically fulfill them, ever. To fulfill it, they would have to steal innocent people that have nothing to do with the problem.

So, in the end, "bank deposit insurances" are just another politician's lie. People must understand that.

And the banks lie as well, never forget that.
The banks didn't even reneg on the deal. They just closed their doors and completely disrespect their promise to give people back the money they borrowed. They lost their play money and now they come asking society for more.
You people seem to want to give blame to governments but it is actually the incredibly sick financial world that is the root of most of these problems.
Was it governments that decided to mix sub-prime morgages into cool looking but seemingly unrelated constructs?
Was it governments that were wallowing for years in profits from these derivatives?
No it wasn't, it was the greed that is cultivated in our financial institutions.
And this greed is so deeply rooted in everything in society that even governments have no real power over these entities.

[Peter Lambert]

Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue!

Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).

[justusranvier]

The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).

This is the root of all the madness in the world.

First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead.

[niko]

The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).

This is the root of all the madness in the world.

First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead.

This is how most sane people operate. They decide what they would like things to be like, then they check if that's the case. If not, they act to try to correct the things to their liking. In the example above, Peter Lambert noted that he saw a problem with how governments operate, and proposed a cure (not specific, though).

[mobodick]

Understand one basic thing: the government doesn't produce anything. Every penny it has, it has taken from innocent people. Forcing the taxvictims to pay the burden is way much unfairer. They have nothing to do with the issue!

Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).

My government provides a lot more than just law and order.
Schooling, jobs, housing, clean water and then some.
Just saying.

[justusranvier]

This is how most sane people operate. They decide what they would like things to be like, then they check if that's the case. If not, they act to try to correct the things to their liking. In the example above, Peter Lambert noted that he saw a problem with how governments operate, and proposed a cure (not specific, though).

That's only sanity if you define "sane as "doing the same thing again and expecting a different result."

[mobodick]

The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).

This is the root of all the madness in the world.

First you propose a theory (government produces and environment of law and order), then you immediately note the empirical evidence is the exact opposite of what your theory predicts, and instead of abandoning your theory as obviously flawed, you determine that reality is flawed instead.

con·text 
/ˈkäntekst/
Noun

    The circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood and assessed.
    The parts of something written or spoken that immediately precede and follow a word or passage and clarify its meaning.

[rpietila]

I was interviewed in the leading Finnish newspaper concerning why I quit selling investment gold since the Cyprus crisis hit:

http://www.hs.fi/talous/Kullanmyyj%C3%A4+j%C3%A4%C3%A4dytti+sijoituskullan+myynnin+Kyproksen+pankkikriisin+takia/a1363789689013

[stevegee58]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  My eyes are bleeding from seeing Finnish!

Levity aside, were you basically saying that holding gold instead of Euros was safest at this point?

[rpietila]

English translation:

Hopea.fi, a vendor selling investment gold and silver, is suspending the sales of investment gold for now. The reason is Cyprus bank crisis.

"This has become too risky. In dealing with gold, the money involved is bigger than in dealing with silver, therefore I need a lot of cash to operate it. At the moment, having big accont balances in Euro is not prudent", says Risto Pietilä, Managing Director of the said company.

Hopea.fi, est. 2006, has annual sales in the tune of EUR 1 million. Due to the small volume, the financial situation of the company warrants being cautious. The banking crisis has further increased this.

The selling and buying of investment silver continues unabated, because in silver, the average trade is smaller and markup is higher. Also the selling [actually: buying] of scrap gold is unaffected.

Last time the company saw suspension of gold sales, was in autumn 2008, also then due to worldwide banking crisis.

Pietilä thinks the gold sales will be restored in maybe a few weeks.

"It is dependent on whether there is a bank run in Euro area. I consider it possible. The foreign depositors may withdraw their money from Cypriot banks as soon as it is possible.", Pietilä says.

"At any rate, having large EUR balances in this situation is stupid. If the Russian depositors are bailed out using ECB funds, the markets get the signal that the easing will continue, leading to erosion of the value of currency. On the other hand, letting the Cyprus banks fail will induce fears that also our deposits will be cut in the future", he continues.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!  My eyes are bleeding from seeing Finnish!

Levity aside, were you basically saying that holding gold instead of Euros was safest at this point?

[coinuser4000]

Just to nitpick a bit (fair notice, I am a minarchish libertarian) The government is there to produce something: an environment of law and order, which in turn fosters greater economic activity. People can spend more time doing useful things because we do not have to be constantly looking over our shoulders and fighting off robbers. Or, at least, that is how it should work (but governments are bloated and irresposibly trying to do more than they should and we need to cut back their powers to a great degree).
[/quote]

What happens when it's your government that is the robber?

I don't see why anyone would leave money in a bank after this. Let the mattress stuffing begin...

[Vladimir]