[ANN] HEAT: 3.0 crypto*multisig fiat*a2a hft*1000tps*DSA*PoS+PoP*e2ee chat*

[signingoff]

Is the price fixed,
When will be the end of Stage 1???

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[jl777]

Is the price fixed,
When will be the end of Stage 1???

when the inventory of each stage runs out, it advances to the next stage.

BTC is still at stage one, and I assume so is ETH, the rest are stage 2 or 3

[tempus]

Is the price fixed,
When will be the end of Stage 1???

when the inventory of each stage runs out, it advances to the next stage.

BTC is still at stage one, and I assume so is ETH, the rest are stage 2 or 3

You are connected to this project?

[weisonghypsp291]

Please pay close attention to twitter and Facebook grant rewards? Bitcointalk account signature have rewards?

[jl777]

Is the price fixed,
When will be the end of Stage 1???

when the inventory of each stage runs out, it advances to the next stage.

BTC is still at stage one, and I assume so is ETH, the rest are stage 2 or 3

You are connected to this project?

just as investor

[verymuchso]

Are you Finnish?  

What is your company(HEAT Ledger Ltd) address in Finland?  

You should list more personal info like FB, LinkedIn, so people can trust you more, investing on ICO means investing devs, honest and competent devs.  

Hi,

Svante Lehtinen is from Finland.
Dennis de Klerk is from Holland.

Company details and our mug-shots are on the website http://heatledger.com.

I don't do facebook, linked-in, twitter (like my privacy) but will likely have to at least give in to that now for business purposes.
Can't speak for Svante on that, I'm sure he'll explain himself.

Thanks

[verymuchso]

sure looks like an interesting concept

Can't agree more 

It seems interesting, I will keep watching 

Thanks.

Why do you guys keep ICO? Why not enhance the existing platform? They nearly function the same but the difference is just the technical side. You could try to incorporate into them, like what NXT dev team is doing. It is wasting of the resource, money and homan power etc.

What existing platform?

Great. I'll be watching this thread. Interesting project people

Thank you.

Almost two dozen in #heat in supernet slack
http://slackinvite.supernet.org

I am also in slack. My user name on supernet slack is Dirk

[Inkvor]

There are no signature bounties ? also site says you guys are hiring but what skills set in particular ?

[verymuchso]

There are no signature bounties ? also site says you guys are hiring but what skills set in particular ?

We seek developers with the following skills

- Java
- Scala
- Play! Framework
- MySQL
- DEVops Chef (but switching to Docker is an option)
- Gradle
- JUnit
- TypeScript
- Angular (2)
- Angular Material
- Gulp
- DEB/RPM packages (creation of)
- Building massively scalable server backends consisting of an auto-resizing cluster of app servers driven by a load balancer
- IPhone app devs
- Android app devs

The other categories (non-dev) I'm sure Svante will add  

[tempus]

It's kind of hard to get an overview here, at least for me. I have a few questions, including a little "sorry" if they are already answered but I didn't recognize.

1. The token

What exactly is the purpose of the Heat token? For example: In Factom the token (Factoids) is the incentive (payment) to run the federated servers. On the other side: To use Factom as a system (let's say to record and timestamp transaction-data), Factoids are converted into Entry Credits and "burned" through that process.  

That design gives the token a real value, and the market cap will reflect the value of the system, because the more the system is used the more Factoids are burned.

Is there something similar in Heat? At the moment it seems to me as if it will be possible to use Heat as Crypto-exchange for let's say a "BTC - ETH - pair" without a need for the token?


2. Fiat, Crypto and EU laws

In the Ann it's said "HEAT Ledger Ltd has joint venture agreements in place with EU wide money transmitter license pending, making the prospect of transferring real fiat money in a cryptographic ledger a reality. One of the first, if not THE first - but certainly the first multi-sig fiat!"

To include Fiat is indeed a very interesting point. But how safe is it that it will happen? Some days ago I've read a german article about new regulatory pressure in the EU, mainly to prevent money laundering (also terror-financing). It's said that those new Cryptocurrency rules are harder than in New York, and the author of that article even expresses his concern that the EU will nearly become  a No-go-area for Crypto-startups.

For those who understand german:
"Virtuelle Währungen sollen EU-weit reguliert werden. Weil es alle Arten von Wallets treffen kann, droht die EU zur No-Go-Area für Bitcoin-Startups zu werden"
https://bitcoinblog.de/2016/07/06/virtuelle-waehrungen-sollen-eu-weit-reguliert-werden-weil-es-alle-arten-von-wallets-treffen-kann-droht-die-eu-zur-no-go-area-fuer-bitcoin-startups-zu-werden/


English article about the issue:

"The Plan contains many initiatives to tighten anti-money laundering (AML) and know-your-customer (KYC) laws, by the end of this year, and includes two separate sections that would affect cryptocurrencies, which they refer to as “virtual currencies.” The larger section targets terrorism funding directly, while the smaller is specifically about pre-paid debit cards, which several bitcoin companies now offer.

“The Commission proposes to bring virtual currency exchange platforms and custodian wallet providers under the scope of the Anti-Money Laundering Directive,” the Plan states. “These entities will have to apply customer due diligence controls when exchanging virtual for real currencies, ending the anonymity associated with such exchanges.”
http://bravenewcoin.com/news/the-european-commissions-divide-over-cryptocurrency-regulation-grows-wider/


My question is: How sure the Heat team can be to find a way through this obviously hard regulations, not just as a decentralized Crypto exchange but even for Fiat? For me it looks as if this project needs to implement a "know-your-customer-system" to have chances in the EU?


3. The blockchain:

It's said: "2-tier reward structure: Proof-Of-Stake and Proof-Of-Presence (Online storage of blockchain slice files)"

a) What exactly is "Proof-of-Presence" and what's it's practical purpose?
b) What will the inflation rate be?

[verymuchso]

3. The blockchain:

It's said: "2-tier reward structure: Proof-Of-Stake and Proof-Of-Presence (Online storage of blockchain slice files)"

a) What exactly is "Proof-of-Presence" and what's it's practical purpose?
b) What will be the inflation rate?

There was a post some time back that describes this.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15522831#msg15522831

As for the purpose.
It's an incentive to store otherwise not required archived transactions.

If you scroll to the bottom there is a mention on inflation rate.
http://heatledger.com/ico.htm

[Foex]

I was thinking of investing but looking at the current ICO status, will buy when it hit exchanges

[tomkat]

RUNDOWN OF HEAT HIGHLIGHTS (some items repeated for clarity)

1.  Technology to be used has been 5 man-years in the making
     a. Written in enterprise friendly Java
     b. Cryptography and p2p consensus code based on MIT licensed NXT
     c. Networking layers and many features based on FIMK development
     d. Architected with re-use for private chains
     e. Optimized for speed and instant high frequency trading
     f. Massively scalable through the use of not one single blockchain, but a chain of blockchains
     g. Completely remade HTML5 client / downloadable / app

2.  New memory mapped OS binary file sliced blockchain structure without db overhead
3.  Splitting balance storage from transactions and blocks
4.  Transaction throughput rate initially in the 1000 tps scale on legacy hardware
5.  Unlimited scalability depending on node hardware: Boost rates of 10k+ tps on standard 4-core Linux server
6.  25-second blocks, instant tx confirmations through websockets and replication layer
7.  Regular client startups are near instant since all that has to be loaded are the balance files (~1/10,000 the size of full blockchain)
8.  High frequency trading enabling instant matching of 1k+ trades per second stable
9.  2-tier reward structure: Proof-Of-Stake and Proof-Of-Presence (Online storage of blockchain slice files)
10.  Distributed Services Architecture (blockchain software robots, Javascript and Java)
11.  Thin client: Home users don't need to carry blockchain files but get rewarded to do so
12.  Replication layer: Vendor independent replicated database integration for corporate full node operators
13.  Remade, smarter networking protocol uses binary messages - on request basis only - between peers
14.  Non-blocking asynchronous websocket connections over Netty (Facebook, Twitter) enables high number of peer connections
15.  Offline smart vouchers (fully signed transactions that can be sent to the blockchain by anyone.)
16.  PIN protected account access to local wallet.dat, with secret phrase brain wallet backup
17.  Native A2A (asset to asset) custom tokens exchange with option for native non-gateway BTC price base
18.  Multicurrency crypto client enabling non-gateway direct crypto transfer
19.  Built-in non-gateway (direct real crypto) p2p exchange for client supported crypto
20.  Custom tokens, private tokens, colored accounts and white label software cloning readiness
21.  Multisig for FIAT currency tokens and several main target use cases:
       a. Simply value adding feature for the crypto client user security
       b. Facilitating implementation of p2p live crypto trading (asset exchange tokens auto match multisig real crypto)
       c. Enabling crowdfunding security and direct intake of funds (also “real” gated EUR, USD that have multisig security)
       d. Unique sales point: Multisig Fiat currency

22.  Crowdfunding / IPO capabilities heavily emphasized:
       a. Readily on-blockchain for DIY agile companies / geeks
       b. Licensed fintech corporate partner for turnkey crowdfunding service
       c. Cloned source / white label installation

23.  Unique, private human defined identifiers (email account format)
24.  Off-blockchain instant E2EE (end-to-end encrypted) P2P messaging
25.  Decentralized web shops with instant EUR payments (/pricing in any token)
26.  Major licensed corporate partners in crowdfunding, fiat currency token transfer and BTC exchange areas
27.  ICO tokens reward stock options for startup company IPO shares at lower price later in 2016
28.  ICO runs from July 11th 2016 through August 8th 2016. Currencies accepted: BTC, ETH, FIMK, NXT.

Can we have all of the above placed on a timescale, OR a road map, or anything that we can then use to verify your progress devs?
There's WAVES with equally impressive list of features that were supposed to be available at launch - guess what happend...

[Eliphaz Fimk]

Can we have all of the above placed on a timescale, OR a road map, or anything that we can then use to verify your progress devs?

Yes, roadmap will be available after white paper is released.

There's WAVES with equally impressive list of features that were supposed to be available at launch - guess what happend...

I don't think WAVES was nearly as far in development as HEAT is when they had their ICO. Probably still aren't, not sure about that. However for HEAT we already have most of the server core mechanism and supported features implemented. Then there'll be the middleware required for co-op gateways etc. The visible parts will be client side (the stuff you see on browser), for which we'll hire specialists after the ICO to help with..

We're now working on getting a HEAT pre-alpha ICOCHAIN online. It was planned for initial launch but a production hd crashing in the last few hours forced the ICO to be launched in the old school way.

1. The token
2. Fiat, Crypto and EU laws

These are excellent subjects we're paying high attention to, I will comment a bit later.

[Eliphaz Fimk]

I was thinking of investing but looking at the current ICO status, will buy when it hit exchanges

Can you elaborate your reasoning? Too successful?

[tempus]

3. The blockchain:

It's said: "2-tier reward structure: Proof-Of-Stake and Proof-Of-Presence (Online storage of blockchain slice files)"

a) What exactly is "Proof-of-Presence" and what's it's practical purpose?
b) What will be the inflation rate?

There was a post some time back that describes this.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15522831#msg15522831

As for the purpose.
It's an incentive to store otherwise not required archived transactions.

If you scroll to the bottom there is a mention on inflation rate.
http://heatledger.com/ico.htm

Thanks for the reply!

It's really not easy to understand. Maybe it's my fault but I have questions everywhere I look.

I'll try to explain my problem with a screenshot:




Clear is: "25 Million HEAT tokens (+ extra 5 Million, if fully reserved)" will be the initial total supply.

Blocktime will be 25 (seconds), but I have no clue what "stage changes" are.

What I can figure out: After 4 years there will be 25 Mio new Heat tokens which means 25% inflation per year - which is kind of high in my opinion. But I really don't understand this way of explaining the economical basics of a project.



**************
And to be honest: I'm kind of concerned if I ask 3 questions and the two most important ones are not answered. Maybe I sound a little bit over-critical but on first sight I really thought: Wow, this could be an interesting project - which is why I try to understand. But if I can't figure out the purpose of a token I also don't know why it should have value in future. And if I don't know if a project maybe will be illegal very soon or already is, it's even more concerning.

If you say that there are pending agreements with the EU about Fiat-implementation you already have a deep understanding of EU laws and you know what they plan. It's more than just possible that a project like this one will be illegal if there will be no technical implementations to take away all anonymity of the users. That's already hard for centralized exchanges but just for example: I know for bitcoin.de (german Bitcoin-exchange) that it's that way since years. All users need to go through a verification-process. I don't like it but the state potentially can know how much Fiat I use to buy Bitcoins (when, how many etc.) and if I withdraw it etc. I believe they will close all possible ways to go into or out of Crypto without them knowing pretty much about it - because but not just because they want their taxes.

And I really would like to see a decentralized exchange without that but I wouldn't know why to buy into an ICO if the token is not even needed to use it, and I still don't know. And I can't invest into a project if I need to think about the possibility that it will run into a lot of problems because of hard EU laws and will be illegal very soon - or already is illegal. I'm not very educated regarding laws but you absolutely need to be. And if it's true that there are pending agreements - you already are - and the other way around.

And, tbh: If I believe that you guys maybe not really know how and if you can make this legal but already saying you will even implement Fiat and that there are pending agreements about that - how can that be possible? What kind of lawyers do you have to believe the EU will say: "Sure, it absolutely needs a decentralized exchange to make it easier for the ppl to get their Fiat into Crypto and that even anon!"?

 




 

[tempus]

1. The token
2. Fiat, Crypto and EU laws

These are excellent subjects we're paying high attention to, I will comment a bit later.

Okay, thanks! Pretty eager to learn more about that.

[OrsonJ]

3. The blockchain:

It's said: "2-tier reward structure: Proof-Of-Stake and Proof-Of-Presence (Online storage of blockchain slice files)"

a) What exactly is "Proof-of-Presence" and what's it's practical purpose?
b) What will be the inflation rate?

There was a post some time back that describes this.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1543991.msg15522831#msg15522831

As for the purpose.
It's an incentive to store otherwise not required archived transactions.

If you scroll to the bottom there is a mention on inflation rate.
http://heatledger.com/ico.htm

Thanks for the reply!

It's really not easy to understand. Maybe it's my fault but I have questions everywhere I look.

I'll try to explain my problem with a screenshot:




Clear is: "25 Million HEAT tokens (+ extra 5 Million, if fully reserved)" will be the initial total supply.

Blocktime will be 25 (seconds), but I have no clue what "stage changes" are.

What I can figure out: After 4 years there will be 25 Mio new Heat tokens which means 25% inflation per year - which is kind of high in my opinion. But I really don't understand this way of explaining the economical basics of a project.



**************
And to be honest: I'm kind of concerned if I ask 3 questions and the two most important ones are not answered. Maybe I sound a little bit over-critical but on first sight I really thought: Wow, this could be an interesting project - which is why I try to understand. But if I can't figure out the purpose of a token I also don't know why it should have value in future. And if I don't know if a project maybe will be illegal very soon or already is, it's even more concerning.

If you say that there are pending agreements with the EU about Fiat-implementation you already have a deep understanding of EU laws and you know what they plan. It's more than just possible that a project like this one will be illegal if there will be no technical implementations to take away all anonymity of the users. That's already hard for centralized exchanges but just for example: I know for bitcoin.de (german Bitcoin-exchange) that it's that way since years. All users need to go through a verification-process. I don't like it but the state potentially can know how much Fiat I use to buy Bitcoins (when, how many etc.) and if I withdraw it etc. I believe they will close all possible ways to go into or out of Crypto without them knowing pretty much about it - because but not just because they want their taxes.

And I really would like to see a decentralized exchange without that but I wouldn't know why to buy into an ICO if the token is not even needed to use it, and I still don't know. And I can't invest into a project if I need to think about the possibility that it will run into a lot of problems because of hard EU laws and will be illegal very soon - or already is illegal. I'm not very educated regarding laws but you absolutely need to be. And if it's true that there are pending agreements - you already are - and the other way around.

And, tbh: If I believe that you guys maybe not really know how and if you can make this legal but already saying you will even implement Fiat and that there are pending agreements about that - how can that be possible? What kind of lawyers do you have to believe the EU will say: "Sure, it absolutely needs a decentralized exchange to make it easier for the ppl to get their Fiat into Crypto and that even anon!"?

 


 

I'd be really grateful to hear an answer to tempus's first question as well, it seems critical

1. The token

What exactly is the purpose of the Heat token? For example: In Factom the token (Factoids) is the incentive (payment) to run the federated servers. On the other side: To use Factom as a system (let's say to record and timestamp transaction-data), Factoids are converted into Entry Credits and "burned" through that process.  

That design gives the token a real value, and the market cap will reflect the value of the system, because the more the system is used the more Factoids are burned.

Is there something similar in Heat? At the moment it seems to me as if it will be possible to use Heat as Crypto-exchange for let's say a "BTC - ETH - pair" without a need for the token?

[Eliphaz Fimk]

What I can figure out: After 4 years there will be 25 Mio new Heat tokens which means 25% inflation per year - which is kind of high in my opinion. But I really don't understand this way of explaining the economical basics of a project.

That's a misunderstanding - there'll only be 1.25M tokens per year released after the initial 4 years. That's 5% inflation on year 5, and declining from there quickly.

And to be honest: I'm kind of concerned if I ask 3 questions and the two most important ones are not answered

You see Dennis is just a simple coder who got carried away with some PR ambitions . I've pointed him back to his desk and will address the very relevant subjects soon. They require lengthy explanations and slapping links on your face while omitting the important parts is not the right way.
 

[tempus]

What I can figure out: After 4 years there will be 25 Mio new Heat tokens which means 25% inflation per year - which is kind of high in my opinion. But I really don't understand this way of explaining the economical basics of a project.

That's a misunderstanding - there'll only be 1.25M tokens per year released after the initial 4 years. That's 5% inflation on year 5, and declining from there quickly.  

So, it's 25% inflation the first 4 years and then it will be 5% inflation per year?

You see Dennis is just a simple coder who got carried away with some PR ambitions . I've pointed him back to his desk and will address the very relevant subjects soon. They require lengthy explanations and slapping links on your face while omitting the important parts is not the right way.

Okay!