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Author Topic: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more.  (Read 36252 times)
BitSyncom
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March 20, 2013, 08:29:35 PM
 #101

I will save BTC for your generation #2 first batch from now on Wink

Hopefully by then there will be more competition or the network hashrate is a lot higher so we won't be forced to come up with these ridiculous numbers.

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March 20, 2013, 08:35:07 PM
 #102

or you can 4 unit for 240 GH of power for the same price of one avalon
One hopes that Gen 2 is slated for 240Gh/s.

We can dream!

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March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM
 #103

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.
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March 20, 2013, 08:41:00 PM
 #104

you should all remember the debates about btc conversion and the amount of btc you wanted from tom after the project failed
pay in btc to make btc that if fair

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March 20, 2013, 08:42:06 PM
 #105

If people do less bitching and more crunching numbers they will see the ROI is still pretty fast.

People are so quick to jump the gun on crying foul.

All investments are risky. Risk only what you can afford. Dont like the price.. dont purchase Smiley I bet they still sell out in a day.

Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.
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March 20, 2013, 08:43:04 PM
 #106

To put things in perspective, ASICminer shares, which are good for 155MH/s each when all of the 62TH/s are online (400000 shares total) are selling at 0.85BTC.

For 88BTC today, ASICminer gives you ~16GH/s.

That said if you really believe difficulty will be 10 000 000 in May/June for batch 3 after at least both ASICMiner 62TH/s and Avalon's first 2 batches (300 + 500) * 70GH/s = 56TH/s are online you will most probably be disappointed.

Even GPUs at current price would be profitable on a 10 000 000 difficulty, this would amount to a total of 150TH/s at a minimum with a difficulty in the 20 000 000 range (where even at the current price GPUs will start to retire).

That's assuming BFL and bitfury don't come up (late and early respectively) with another heap of TH/s or a private entity doesn't start (there were already some very large unidentified hashers on some pools for which at least ASICMiner denied being involved) mining with in-house ASICs.

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March 20, 2013, 08:43:47 PM
 #107


I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.
Let us hope that the greedy, those with fat wallets or tons of BTC will fund their next process node jump.

Godspeed Team Avalon!  Grin

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March 20, 2013, 08:51:06 PM
 #108


I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.

How are they any more greedy than miners?  Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.  

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling.   Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person.   I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad.   With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure.   Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.

That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

I just think your not putting yourself in their shoes.  For the timetable they are delivering and BFL not giving guidance, it is correctly priced for the time being.   You need to look long term and think about why you are purchasing these units.   Am I tantalized about the prospects of getting a great ROI, of course but I am also prepare to run these units over 1-2 years+ if I need too and then upgrade to Gen2+.

I believe Avalon will at at this for a while and I know they have tricks up their sleeves so in the end you need to ask yourself, do you trust BitSyncom/Avalon, their intentions and principles or not?   Yes, like any one else, they could choose to totally screw us over but that is the risk you have to bear or not.   At the point, it doesn't matter to me, I have made my decision and we will see how my faith placed in their company will pan out.  I feel I have made the right choice and continuing to support them will be the right choice for me.  If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it as well and learn.


Lets hope they keep backward compatibility with Gen 2 modules. Keeping your Avalon and buying newer modules may very well turn out to be very profitable.

Like you, I have Faith in the company that they know how to play their cards.

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March 20, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
 #109

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".

If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.

If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.

Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.

Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.
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March 20, 2013, 08:57:21 PM
 #110

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

I love this!!!

I have bank accounts in Seoul South Korea. Will you take a wire transfer? And when will the orders open exactly.

Surp
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March 20, 2013, 09:02:17 PM
 #111

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".

If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.

If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.

Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.

Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

welll said +1
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March 20, 2013, 09:04:53 PM
 #112

The BTC strategy only works for the people who were early in the game and have chep BTC. For someone to buy now with USD is too much risk, given the fact that BTC can go to $10. So, here is my question, if I convert my USD to BTC somehow, and value of BTC crashes, will Avalon still honor the 88-115 BTC price ? If yes, that's good enough, otherwise, if that time price is increased or switched to USD, I have no way out.

After a lot of thought, converting USD to BTC now and purchasing batch 3 fails for me. Good for people with cheap BTC already. Good luck.
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March 20, 2013, 09:10:34 PM
 #113

Speaking of security, since when is vastly raising the bar to entry better for the network in the long run? Instead of thousands of people saving their pennies to make a purchase, Avalon is instead tailoring to a hundred customers who have substantial amounts of cash lying around. This sort of circles back to my comment on their "business skills"...

Agreed. They are limiting the purchasing pool to companies, people already  heavily invested in BTC or that already own an Avalon unit. Less diversification of hashing throughput.

But I'm not complaining. The price is fair given the market situation and no competition, so if that's what they want to charge so be it. The units will still sell out for reasons stated above. Your average joe can't afford $5k for one of these - even if ROI is good it would be irresponsible to buy one, regardless of how much faith you have in Bitcoin.
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March 20, 2013, 09:11:50 PM
 #114

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.

That said, please at least keep the fact straight:
1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.
2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.
3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.

All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers.
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March 20, 2013, 09:12:41 PM
 #115

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

Nice statement! Batch 1 and Batch 2 orderers are risk takers, now there are much less risk

And the interesting thing is, Avalon only accepting BTC caused a self-driven market demand for BTC, this is exactly lots of BTC true believers hoped: A BTC economy which is less related on exchange price. This is a totally new phenomenon, how to evaluate such a move's effect?

It's a bit like a chinese company make a nice product that everyone on the planet want , but they only accept chinese RMB, so the only option for outsiders is to exchange their currency for RMB, and that will strengthen the RMB's exchange rate (of course the RMB exchange rate is fixed by chinese government, this is not a good example, but you get the idea...)

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March 20, 2013, 09:13:45 PM
 #116

I will save BTC for your generation #2 first batch from now on Wink

Hopefully by then there will be more competition or the network hashrate is a lot higher so we won't be forced to come up with these ridiculous numbers.

Yeah, that's quite frank from your side. Agree that these are ridiculous numbers, but still this is pure free market in action. No competition = ridiculous numbers, more risk for the consumer Wink

we discussed batch3 price for a long time.

personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.

batch#1: 1300USD + your trust,  batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?

why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.

last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.

as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".

If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.

If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.

Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.

Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

+100000

I'm also an admirer of Dr Zhang. As said earlier, I'm starting to save for his 2nd gen asics. Batch #3 is too risky and expensive for me.

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March 20, 2013, 09:15:43 PM
 #117

this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.

now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.

You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.

That said, please at least keep the fact straight:
1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.
2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.
3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.

All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers.

Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563
And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
SyRenity
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March 20, 2013, 09:25:56 PM
 #118

Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered

Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.

In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.

So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2.
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March 20, 2013, 09:28:38 PM
 #119

Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered

Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.

In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.

So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2.

Dude,
I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours. I am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?
 

Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563
And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D
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March 20, 2013, 09:33:38 PM
 #120


Dude,
I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours. I am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?
 

You understand that on a high traffic website, there are lots of factors, right ? Since you and your friend could order, does not mean everyone could.
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