Someone please make a steem clone

[AlexGR]

I hope you understand that a 90% premine pisses a lot of people off.

Nobody cares...

I don't think you understand what the killer app of blockchains is.

Blockchains are simply the technological outgrowth of increased storage, bandwidth and processing power that allows what used to be centralized, to become decentralized. By extension it "democratizes" power and eliminates middlemen.

As I see it cooperation is not needed nor is an essential characteristic - as blockchains must be built to endure in adversarial conditions.

The killer app of blockchains will differ depending the time-space coordinates. Initially it will be about text storage (like financial records - like ...bitcoin), then image storage, then video storage - as technological capabilities scale into the next 2-3 decades. If you told someone back in the 1980's that the entire encyclopedia would fit their 360kb floppy-equipped PC they would laugh. Fast forward ten years later, microsoft releases the encarta on a CD rom (with multimedia too). Fast forward twenty years later, the size of wikipedia (which is orders of magnitude richer and can be equated with the world's knowledge database) is around 150gb with the images. It can fit on a microSD that one can carry in their iphones. Fast forward twenty years forward, we may be hosting every single imgur photo on a microSD equivalent and thirty years later every video ever made in quality sub4k-res.

So, as I see it, the killer app would always be related to the elimination of middlemen who are currently using the centralized system to do what the decentralized system can't (due to storage/bandwidth/processor handicaps). Currently it is banking (bitcoin) and we are moving into more text (steemit) and we'll be moving to text+images, etc etc. But the "reddits" aren't the same type of "middlemen" that the banks are. The online payment and currency sector is by far the larger killer app here but it isn't that popular due to ease-of-use and associated technoweaknesses in the demographics. Steemit is an easier concept that is closer to foruming, but it competes in a market with far less revenue than online payments and banking.

[iamnotback]

As I see it cooperation is not needed nor is an essential characteristic - as blockchains must be built to endure in adversarial conditions.

AlexGR you entirely missed the point.

The marketing aspect is the killer app. And the movement towards cooperation (people-to-people) and away from central banks, big government and big corporations is going to change everything[1].

Blockchains enable such cooperation because no one owns it (except in the case of Steem where Dan and Ned own it).

[1] c.f. Strauss's Generation Change model and what we should expect at this juncture. I'd been expecting this since 2012 and now I see confirmation in my marketing focus groups on Steemit!

Boomers = vision, values, and religion (loyalty, idealistic, entitled)
Nomad = liberty, survival and honor (survival, pragmatic, alienated)
Hero = community, affluence, and technology (order, righteous, protected)

The Hero (Gen Y) generation is coming. I am from the Nomad (Gen X) generation, but I was lucky to be ready for the coming of the Hero generation and so I am ready to be adjust myself to be in sync with their ideals. Yet I was also talking to my mom and she can also identify with cooperation as a goal. So this is very unifying across all the generations, and the Heros will lead it (although some of us Gen X will also play key roles).

China will be big on this also. Also the Heros in Japan are ready to overthrow the old system. It is happening every where.



P.S. Steemit is a dead-end because the blockchain is rewarding a "pre"-mine which won't fit the ideals of the Hero generation. Once they know the truth, they will abandon Steem in droves if there is something better for them to express their disapproval in a positive way.

[AlexGR]

As I see it cooperation is not needed nor is an essential characteristic - as blockchains must be built to endure in adversarial conditions.

AlexGR you entirely missed the point.

The marketing aspect is the killer app. And the movement towards cooperation (people-to-people) and away from central banks, big government and big corporations is going to change everything[1].

Blockchains enable such cooperation because no one owns it (except in the case of Steem where Dan and Ned own it).

Can you give me a tangible example of people-to-people cooperation (blockchain-based)? I need to understand this better.

The Hero (Gen Y) generation is coming. I am from the Noman (Gen X) generation, but I was lucky to be ready for the coming of the Hero generation and so I am ready to be adjust myself to be in sync with their ideals. Yet I was also talking to my mom and she can also identify with cooperation as a goal. So this is very unifying across all the generations, and the Heros will lead it (although some of us Gen X will also play key roles).

China will be big on this also. Also the Heros in Japan are ready to overthrow the old system. It is happening every where.

The whole generation thing is bogus. I've made the case here: https://steemit.com/millenials/@alexgr/gens-x-y-z-why-they-don-t-really-exist-and-why-genealogy-needs-to-adapt

(...indirectly answering that woman with the question of why isn't her generation getting married)

In my view, the best equipped western generation right now is the one being born around 77-83, with the best probably being those around 79-81. (obviously I'm talking about sub-generations, not 25y generations). I think they hit the threshold of growing up the old way but taking advantage of the technology without it corrupting them to the same degree as the post85 and post90s.

There's a lot of DOA children post-90s and even more post-2000s.

P.S. Steemit is a dead-end because the blockchain is rewarding a "pre"-mine which won't fit the ideals of the Hero generation. Once they know the truth, they will abandon Steem in droves.

You sign, you write, you get paid. You don't care how the money comes. You overrate this aspect too much.

[iamnotback]

Can you give me a tangible example of people-to-people cooperation (blockchain-based)? I need to understand this better.

Steemit

The whole generation thing is bogus.

Tell that to the WW2 generation when Elvis gyrated his hips on national TV.

Tell that to the boomers (and even my generation) when we see Millennials' eyes glued to their smartphones when walking.

P.S. Steemit is a dead-end because the blockchain is rewarding a "pre"-mine which won't fit the ideals of the Hero generation. Once they know the truth, they will abandon Steem in droves.

You sign, you write, you get paid. You don't care how the money comes. You overrate this aspect too much.

You still don't understand that the specific amount of money being paid is not what is driving those to Steem who will end up being sticky.

It is the ideology of being able to cooperate on the resources and better this world and not paying rent to capitalists who own OUR PRODUCTIVE CAPITAL (which was the entire point of my famous blogs cited in the OP of the CoinCube's Economic Devastation thread).

The ideology is cardinal. Payouts and rewards are one of the effects, but secondary.

[AlexGR]

Can you give me a tangible example of people-to-people cooperation (blockchain-based)? I need to understand this better.

Steemit

Steemit what? Where is the cooperation? At what level?

The whole generation thing is bogus.

Tell that to the WW2 generation when Elvis gyrated his hips on national TV.

Tell that to the boomers (and even my generation) when we see Millennials' eyes glued to their smartphones when walking.

There was a time when the world evolved slowly and people born after 20 years didn't make much of a difference in how they were raised. Now even 5 years can make a huge difference. The generation gaps are accelerating. And I can already tell you that this will be accelerating even further due to AI helpers taking over education.

Kids have endless questions but noone to answer them. Enter AI helpers, a la Watson. Kids in 2020-25 get their answers from AI helpers and customized education. Suddenly the stupidification trend that started in those born mid-late 80s (and progresses still with even dumber kids), starts reversing as the AI is able to deliver a pull-based-customized education to every child.

Fast forward +5 years when the AI has evolved to a level that it can provide much better answers. Fast forward +5 years due to the same reason. And suddenly you have generations growing up which will be differentiated by the operating system of the dominant helper AI. "oh you are a watson '24 kid... great". Like saying "you are a windows 3.1 - windows 95-98 kid".

Evolution is just too fast for generations to remain unaffected. Even the smartphone addiction is different in a 35 year old millenial to a 25yr old millenial to a 20yr old millenial. For the grandpa it might look all the same, but it isn't. The 35yr old may even understand the difference of being rude to others by his preoccupation with his mobile, while the 25yr old might not. For the 25yr old, he may find the 20yr old "excessive" with their bending-down-and-being-glued-to-the-screen or his tendency to view certain materials or use certains apps - which he finds ridiculous. He believes the smartphone isn't for that type of stuff, etc etc.

P.S. Steemit is a dead-end because the blockchain is rewarding a "pre"-mine which won't fit the ideals of the Hero generation. Once they know the truth, they will abandon Steem in droves.

You sign, you write, you get paid. You don't care how the money comes. You overrate this aspect too much.

You still don't understand that the specific amount of money being paid is not what is driving those to Steem who will end up being sticky.

It is the ideology of being able to cooperate on the resources and better this world and not paying rent to capitalists who own OUR PRODUCTIVE CAPITAL (which was the entire point of my famous blogs cited in the OP of the CoinCube's Economic Devastation thread).

The ideology is cardinal. Payouts and rewards are one of the effects, but secondary.

[/quote]

There's nothing inherently incompatible with improving the world and getting paid by ...steemit.

Look. The distribution is SO BAD that it can only improve. When you start from a fucked up concentrated percentage like the one there is right now, it can only be improved by further distribution. So the effect downstream is one of people getting a share to the wealth. That's what you and I are experiencing without entering a single cent and getting thousands out of nothing.

If, on the other hand, the distribution started "fair", then suddenly you'd see accumulation phenomena. You would not see wealth distribution. You would see gradual concentration and instead of wealth trickling down, it would be small people cashing out their share and bailing.

[AlexGR]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

So what then? Will it have to be a case of "self-correction" where you "let staff go" because they don't get paid as they should? (They let themselves out really).

How do you deal with that problem where you have a network that is a victim of its own success. This is even worse than bitcoin scaling (and not being able to get loads of transactions per second if it becomes extremely popular).

[smooth]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

There has never been a crypto with more than about 1-2% of 50 million users. How do we know what such a thing would be worth?

[Zer0Sum]

Sybils, if they exist, basically have to come from Steemit signups because the situation in the mining market with some high powered miners getting most of the blocks means that only a very small number of accounts can be created that way per day. My guess (without data) is that it is cheaper to cheat Steemit out of $7-10 plus an account name than to mine $7-10 of coins plus an account name.

Actually, your average i7 doing 30K hps can mine about 1 STEEM/day (more if it's water cooled and can max out).
 

[smooth]

Sybils, if they exist, basically have to come from Steemit signups because the situation in the mining market with some high powered miners getting most of the blocks means that only a very small number of accounts can be created that way per day. My guess (without data) is that it is cheaper to cheat Steemit out of $7-10 plus an account name than to mine $7-10 of coins plus an account name.

Actually, your average i7 doing 30K hps can mine about 1 STEEM/day (more if it's water cooled and can max out).

And one account scammer can probably sign up dozens or hundreds of free accounts (with 3 STEEM each) per day.

[iamnotback]

Can you give me a tangible example of people-to-people cooperation (blockchain-based)? I need to understand this better.

Steemit

Steemit what? Where is the cooperation? At what level?

Precisely.

I already told @smooth that without engagement it can't become sticky.

But steemit does portend a model of cooperation on a blockchain. I am not going to tell you every feature and improvement I have in mind right now.

We can say at the moment that users are cooperating to upvote to fund causes they believe in. The crowd funding is already a cooperation. And hypothetically no middle man taking a cut of the action due to it being on a blockchain and no censorship to disrupt the cooperation (but Dan and Ned own/control most of the money supply in the case of Steem)

We can see for example the users are cooperating to make sure that plagiarism is downvoted. No need for government enforcement of copyright, the users are doing it.

There will be so many more examples of cooperation.

[Zer0Sum]

I hope you understand that a 90% premine pisses a lot of people off.

Nobody cares...

Ya man, it's 2016 and people been whining about "unfair distributions" for years... and nobody cares. Deal with it.

Steemit's biggest problem is the "Karma Whore Dilemma"...
Since one is penalized for disagreeing with idiots (unless you are a whale)...  
People with professional experience and an intelligent point of view will just go back to Reddit.

On Reddit one can post a controversial, but intelligent commentary...
And often get surprised by the amount of positive karma...
While on Steemit you can only get on your knees... and Suck The Big One.

[iamnotback]

There's nothing inherently incompatible with improving the world and getting paid by ...steemit.

Look. The distribution is SO BAD that it can only improve.

What part of censorship-resistance and trustless do you continue to forget over and over again.

What part of TBTF did you forget from 2008.

What part of the moral hazard of charging failure to the collective and giving profits to the fat cats from 2008 do you think the people do not care about. Why are Bernie Sanders and Trump so popular.

Please this is getting redundant. I don't want to be dragged into more pages of verbose crap talk.

Ya man, it's 2016 and people been whining about "unfair distributions" for years... and nobody cares. Deal with it.

Females are not going to buy into our scams. Did you not see the lady with 500 people she wants to bring into Steem but she is worried they will think it is a scam.

The masses are staying away from our all-male tinfoil hat cryptospeculators Pink Sheets shit.

Don't you know the reputation of Bitcoin amongst the masses is rampant scams and theft.

[AlexGR]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

Because if I extend this even further to a user base like 500 million (closer to twitter and instagram levels - and still 1/3 or 1/4 that of facebook), it then requires a marketcap of 2 trillion - which is an absurd amount. And I'm not accounting for increase in value due to network effect - my assumption is for linear relation.

[iamnotback]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

Because if I extend this even further to a user base like 500 million (closer to twitter and instagram levels - and still 1/3 or 1/4 that of facebook), it then requires a marketcap of 2 trillion - which is an absurd amount. And I'm not accounting for increase in value due to network effect - my assumption is for linear relation.

It is not absurd. The global networth is perhaps $500 trillion.

Social networking could be very large segment of the knowledge age economy.

Bitcoin is nothing maybe 100,000 to a million users and has a $10b mcap.

[iamnotback]

Steemit's biggest problem is the "Karma Whore Dilemma"...
Since one is penalized for disagreeing with idiots (unless you are a whale)...  
People with professional experience and an intelligent point of view will just go back to Reddit.

On Reddit one can post a controversial, but intelligent commentary...
And often get surprised by the amount of positive karma...
While on Steemit you can only get on your knees... and Suck The Big One.

I agree there are issues here that have to be improved. I am not going to agree on any specifics right now. I am lacking sleep (only 5 hours in the past 38 or so)

[AlexGR]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

Because if I extend this even further to a user base like 500 million (closer to twitter and instagram levels - and still 1/3 or 1/4 that of facebook), it then requires a marketcap of 2 trillion - which is an absurd amount. And I'm not accounting for increase in value due to network effect - my assumption is for linear relation.

It is not absurd. The global networth is perhaps $500 trillion.

Social networking could be very large segment of the knowledge age economy.

Bitcoin is nothing maybe 100,000 to a million users and has a $10b mcap.

In theory everything is possible. But I would argue strongly against its probability of happening.

What I think will happen, is that a trendline will emerge over time regarding marketcap size (I predict it will be relatively stable) and user expansion (moderate but steady increase). We will then be able to extrapolate the rewards by extending the curve into hypothetical space (future userbase) and find the point of non-viability for the average westerner (he'll have to bail), then the point of non-viability for average south.american / eastern-european, then africans and asians...

[smooth]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

Because if I extend this even further to a user base like 500 million (closer to twitter and instagram levels - and still 1/3 or 1/4 that of facebook), it then requires a marketcap of 2 trillion - which is an absurd amount. And I'm not accounting for increase in value due to network effect - my assumption is for linear relation.

Sure at some point it may slow down a bit, but these are relatively small factors. If it gets to 50 million users and beyond then much of the value of the network will be things other than getting paid for your blog. Everyone in the world is not a blogger. Actually as I've stated earlier in these threads, already most people aren't going to (and shouldn't) be paid much because they don't produce much of value. They may get a few coins here and there which might be enough to seed the concept of crypto for them, but if it goes beyond that and there is utility on the network they want to access, they will earn (meaning direct business or employment type earnings, not blog rewards) or buy coins.

But I would argue strongly against its probability of happening.

I would argue that 50-500 million users on Steem is highly improbable, but conditional on that happening, a very high (relative to current cryptos) market cap is almost a certainty.

[AlexGR]

I would argue that 50-500 million users on Steem is highly improbable, but conditional on that happening, a very high (relative to current cryptos) market cap is almost a certainty.

Of this I'm confident as well: ETH has nothing on steem in terms of real life use and it will either have to drop below 200mn, or STEEM will have to go beyond 1bn. Otherwise it's a tremendous market anomaly.

I don't know if it'll get to threaten bitcoin though - although I can't rule it out.

[iamnotback]

And something more: The only thing that may be worthy of your time is finding a solution to the reward scaling issue.

This is the only thing that I can think of that it can render the platform DOA.

Users can experience explosive growth, say go from 50k to 50mn. (1000x)

What about rewards though? Can marketcap go from 200mn to 200bn to preserve them? Obviously not.

Why not?

Because if I extend this even further to a user base like 500 million (closer to twitter and instagram levels - and still 1/3 or 1/4 that of facebook), it then requires a marketcap of 2 trillion - which is an absurd amount. And I'm not accounting for increase in value due to network effect - my assumption is for linear relation.

Sure at some point it may slow down a bit, but these are relatively small factors.

We could end up being shocked when the world figures out that the industrial age economy has a negative profit potential and they better shift to something of value.

It is a long-shot, but not unthinkable.

If it gets to 50 million users and beyond then much of the value of the network will be things other than getting paid for your blog. Everyone in the world is not a blogger. Actually as I've stated earlier in these threads, already most people aren't going to be paid much because they dod't produce much of value. They may get a few coins here and there which might be enough to seed the concept of crypto for them, but if it goes beyond that they will earn or buy coins.

The ecosystem will absolutely not stay stuck on blogging.

The different ways value will be generated will proliferate.

It is going to cause dizziness it will be so fast due to open systems.

We are the cusp of the biggest thing ever.

But I would argue strongly against its probability of happening.

I would argue that 50-500 million users on Steem is highly improbable, but conditional on that happening, a very high (relative to current cryptos) market cap is almost a certainty.

Agreed.

But the probability of it happening on some blockchain is better (more chances and forking allowed for more experiments/challenges), although still a long-shot. But if someone nails the killer app, we will be on our way to the moon.

Make sure you pick your horses well or diversify.

I don't know if it'll get to threaten bitcoin though - although I can't rule it out.

A Steem-like concept could blow by Bitcoin easily. But still everything is highly improbable at this juncture.

[iamnotback]

See I told you guys!

I wish a whale could throw some appreciation to this lady's comment for participating in a marketing focus group study:

We need to make sure people won't associate cryptocurrency and blockchains with scams, which is why it is so important that we get the details correct.

Absolutely! It's unfortunate, but many people do view it as a scam. It also doesn't help that mainstream media coverage only focuses on hacks and rarely covers success. To hear you say that, though, is comforting. It means that those involved are aware of outside perception and care enough to address it.

Note she has a cryptonerd bf or husband. So maybe she is (unknowingly) coached (i.e. influenced). I hope the other lady replies who came from outside of crypto.