why socialism?

[TECSHARE]

Really!?
I lived in one former communist country and they told me exactly that, at school and on TV, that socialism is fairer and better than capitalism because all people are equal in socialism.
Are you saying they lied to us?

Don't bother using logic with this one. He has no logos and operates totally on ethos. He knows more about Socialism and Communism than people who have lived under Socialism and Communism, he knows more about poverty than the homeless, and he just knows better than you, because he is an academic with a privileged Western upbringing, and you know what they say about academics right? "If you can't do, teach."

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[af_newbie]

I was speaking about literature and present day parties, and wasn't denying the existance of perversions of the ideology.  I don't know what you saw as a kid but are you sure it wasn't "everyone is treated equally" because everyone having equal worth/rights as a human, equal power in democracy and equal treatment under the law is very often misinterpreted as "everyone is the same and makes the same paycheck". 

But if you're basing your world view off of what you saw in school and on tv as a child, you're already off-base anyway.

So what now? Are you saying that the Warsaw Pact countries were not communist?

Rewriting history, aren't we?

Do you think you can do a better job than the KGB?  You can talk nonsense about equality and inequality ad nauseam, but do you think you would be able to organize and run a communist state?  If you think you can, you are delusional.

NKVD types could not do it, and a snowflake raised in the US can?

What is your aim in all of this?  Fame? Saviour complex?  Megalomania?

Do you think you are "the ONE" to save the planet?

If you think you are, I suggest you hire a team of psychiatrists to work on you 24/7, one professional is not enough.

[coins4commies]

Why would you ask those questions?  I have never posted anything that should lead someone to believe I think those things.  

Well a communist and communism aren't the same thing. You don't have to achieve communism to be a communist but I don't even believe those people had communism in mind. I can't know what was in their mind but the actions of some of the leaders were egotistical and not what any of us would ideologically align with.  It also was a long time ago, and they were coming from systems that were more like that.  Its such an apples to oranges comparison that its not really worth dwelling on something so different that happened so long ago.    I also don't believe communism will be feasible in our lifetime.  People born in the world now are not capable of living in a communist system because they have developed such a scarcity mindset.  It will require a slow transition (socialism) before communism can even be attempted.  Once socialism heals the wounds of the human mindset created by capitalist induced scarcity, communism will just happen.  

Under socialism induced conditions, no one will need to force policies onto people and there will be no need for a centralized state, just democracy through community council.

The first step, the next best step, and the only current step I have ever advocated for from our current system is social democracy.  Its not just the next logical step, it has a track record of success and the best quality of life indicators.  I don't advocate for anything that isn't backed by research

Communism is an end goal.  Its like saying we want to colonize mars some day.  That doesn't mean every mission involves a person trying to permanently live on Mars.  Its something way off in the future that isn't even within reach right now.  I'm not the leader and never claimed to be the leader.  My aim is simply to show you guys other perspectives because you are laser focused on one perspective without even realizing theres a different way.

I'm not a politician but grassroots movements that will benefit the masses are all about a ton of people raising awareness and sharing information with other people.  Thats how movements work. I see myself as one of those hundreds of millions of people.  

[darkangel11]

People born in the world now are not capable of living in a communist system because they have developed such a scarcity mindset.

Good for them. They saw what socialism leads to and it was enough for them to learn. Like a child who once touches a flame learns for a lifetime.

It will require a slow transition (socialism) before communism can even be attempted.  Once socialism heals the wounds of the human mindset created by capitalist induced scarcity, communism will just happen. 

It won't happen. Socialism is such a bad system that it will turn on itself before it can reach a transition into communism. Building communism through socialism is like going from living in a cardboard box to building a house out of cardboard boxes.

Under socialism induced conditions, no one will need to force policies onto people and there will be no need for a centralized state, just democracy through community council.

Keep on dreaming. There will always be a fat pig to take the chair and then make some more chairs for its friends and family.

[Magkirap]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Can you state what countries that doesn't work because of socialiam? Because I doubt it wasn't working. There are a lot of countries that improved because of socialism. As we all know, socialosm is a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. This shows balance or equality compared to communism.

[Viper1]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

They're not. It's the extreme left that is pushing for a lot more socialism and it's only the extreme radical left that might say communism but I rarely see that sort of thing. As for it not working? There are plenty of countries where more socialism is working just fine for them so the argument about it not working is false. I'm curious though. Which countries do you think work without having any socialism at all?

[BADecker]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

They're not. It's the extreme left that is pushing for a lot more socialism and it's only the extreme radical left that might say communism but I rarely see that sort of thing. As for it not working? There are plenty of countries where more socialism is working just fine for them so the argument about it not working is false. I'm curious though. Which countries do you think work without having any socialism at all?

Except that socialism is working fine in the narrow view. The wide view shows that socialism success is based on relations with capitalistic USA.

[Viper1]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

They're not. It's the extreme left that is pushing for a lot more socialism and it's only the extreme radical left that might say communism but I rarely see that sort of thing. As for it not working? There are plenty of countries where more socialism is working just fine for them so the argument about it not working is false. I'm curious though. Which countries do you think work without having any socialism at all?

Except that socialism is working fine in the narrow view. The wide view shows that socialism success is based on relations with capitalistic USA.

I'll just assume what you're trying to say is that everyone is trading with the US and so has plenty of money in order to fund stuff. If it wasn't the US, some other country would be the one with all the money. i.e. it used to be Rome. it used to be the UK. Even so, it has little to do with the US and purely the strength of your economy etc. Lots of people these days love to point to Venezuela and it's failure. But really, those in charge were morons and put all their eggs in one basket. They viewed oil prices in the same way wall street viewed the housing bubble leading up to 2008. Saying their socialism proves it's a failure when they were inept is just foolish.

Side note, the US is "mostly" capitalistic. You might be surprised to see who ranks #1 in terms of the most capitalistic. The USA is 18th. Note how many countries that are more capitalistic then the US, also have more socialism.

https://www.thebalance.com/capitalism-characteristics-examples-pros-cons-3305588

[BADecker]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

They're not. It's the extreme left that is pushing for a lot more socialism and it's only the extreme radical left that might say communism but I rarely see that sort of thing. As for it not working? There are plenty of countries where more socialism is working just fine for them so the argument about it not working is false. I'm curious though. Which countries do you think work without having any socialism at all?

Except that socialism is working fine in the narrow view. The wide view shows that socialism success is based on relations with capitalistic USA.

I'll just assume what you're trying to say is that everyone is trading with the US and so has plenty of money in order to fund stuff. If it wasn't the US, some other country would be the one with all the money. i.e. it used to be Rome. it used to be the UK. Even so, it has little to do with the US and purely the strength of your economy etc. Lots of people these days love to point to Venezuela and it's failure. But really, those in charge were morons and put all their eggs in one basket. They viewed oil prices in the same way wall street viewed the housing bubble leading up to 2008. Saying their socialism proves it's a failure when they were inept is just foolish.

Side note, the US is "mostly" capitalistic. You might be surprised to see who ranks #1 in terms of the most capitalistic. The USA is 18th. Note how many countries that are more capitalistic then the US, also have more socialism.

https://www.thebalance.com/capitalism-characteristics-examples-pros-cons-3305588

You would be wrong assuming that.

Who is doing the ranking, and what are the standards that they rank by? You can make ranking say anything that you want.

Socialism failure is based on communication and information. For example, it is the China Government that is trying to censor the people in all the ways that they can. Why? They want formal, government controlled socialism... so they can capitalize on Chinese slaves, the Chinese people. It is communication with people around the world that is showing the Chinese people that social freedom is the way to go. Hong Kong had it from the British, and they don't want to lose it back to the Chinese government. The Hong Kong riots.

All people are trying to make more money... get more ownership of valuable things. Where do they look? Communication shows them the people of the USA and other free peoples of the world... where socialism is controlled by the people individually, and where capitalism is quite free for the people, individually, as well, and where the government sits back and cries because they can't take social and capital control from the people.

In fact, Bitcoin is the people breaking away from the social and capitalistic controls of the government.

[Viper1]

You would be wrong assuming that.

You're not the person I was responding to so you can't correct my assumption. i.e. you don't know what he thinks.

Who is doing the ranking, and what are the standards that they rank by? You can make ranking say anything that you want.

Why don't you go read it as it says where that info came from instead of those useless sentences. I will tell you though that one of the sources is a well known US conservative group.

Socialism failure is based on communication and information.

Says who? You? The rest of your comment was worthless drivel centered around some misplaced point of view. Go find some real analysis of socialism failures and quote that instead of making stuff up.

In fact, Bitcoin is the people breaking away from the social and capitalistic controls of the government.

I'd like some of the coolaid you're drinking. Governments have already started to exert control over bitcoin and all crypto through things like the SEC and KYC. It will continue.

[Viper1]

You would be wrong assuming that.

You're not the person I was responding to so you can't correct my assumption. i.e. you don't know what he thinks.

Who is doing the ranking, and what are the standards that they rank by? You can make ranking say anything that you want.

Why don't you go read it as it says where that info came from instead of those useless sentences. I will tell you though that one of the sources is a well known US conservative group.

Socialism failure is based on communication and information.

Says who? You? The rest of your comment was worthless drivel centered around some misplaced point of view. Go find some real analysis of socialism failures and quote that instead of making stuff up.

In fact, Bitcoin is the people breaking away from the social and capitalistic controls of the government.

I'd like some of the coolaid you're drinking. Governments have already started to exert control over bitcoin and all crypto through things like the SEC and KYC. It will continue.

Hey, thanks for the replies. But since you don't seem to be able to think in the big-picture sense, at least you are a good example of most socialists.

I understand. Simply slapping a label on someone so you can justify in your mind dismissing what they say is a good tactic for those that don't want to look outside their little bubble. Carry on then.

[Spendulus]

...Lots of people these days love to point to Venezuela and it's failure. But really, those in charge were morons and put all their eggs in one basket. They viewed oil prices in the same way wall street viewed the housing bubble leading up to 2008. Saying their socialism proves it's a failure when they were inept is just foolish....

I think it's quite the opposite. Give inept leaders to socialism, get catastrophic economic results. This is at the least, a flaw of socialistic systems.

It's been noted before, numerous times historically. EG, Russia and their famous "Five Year Plans."

[BADecker]

Hey, thanks for the replies. But since you don't seem to be able to think in the big-picture sense, at least you are a good example of most socialists.

I understand. Simply slapping a label on someone so you can justify in your mind dismissing what they say is a good tactic for those that don't want to look outside their little bubble. Carry on then.

They'll arrest you without that label, except maybe if you get yourself over to the nudist camp.

[hornetsnest]

[coins4commies]

We're just going to pretend GDP is all that matters and ignore the CIA meddling + US embargo and sanctions. 

[TECSHARE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opQ1_O-TXmY

[djsugar]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism has its own advantage when coming to social equality and economic planning. It focuses on reducing wealth disparities, also helps in price controls , inflation anf unemployment. It also includes ability to mske good use of land , labor and resources. It also takes care of excess or insufficient production.

[TECSHARE]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism has its own advantage when coming to social equality and economic planning. It focuses on reducing wealth disparities, also helps in price controls , inflation anf unemployment. It also includes ability to mske good use of land , labor and resources. It also takes care of excess or insufficient production.

Socialism good. Socialism do good things I like. Socialism is make poor not poor. Socialism efficient. Y U NO want socialism?

[senne]

Why is  the left pushing the idea of socialism/comunism so much even tho it showed that it doesn't work many times in the past?

Socialism in indeed important and preferred by states to prevent giving too much power to corporates and private players. It takes care of unemployment, price fluctuation, inflation. Beside that it handles laws of land and labor and also takes care of the citizens.

[Negotiation]

Society is needed to govern the state and we need socialism to eliminate capitalism and slavery from this society Socialism manages the issue of eliminating unemployment etc in order to protect the balance of our society Many do not support this but I think the only purpose of socialism is to work for the welfare of the whole people.