OgNasty: "@Lutpin: Really should kill himself."

[eddie13]

"Send me all of your coins and I won't delete your harddrive"
"Remove that feedback or I'll remove this guy from my list"
"Do my homework or I'll tell mom what you did last night"
"Give me $50,000 in unmarked bills or I will kill this person"

All of the above quoted examples are forms of extortion. This needed clearing up for those that do not know what extortion is.

In laymans terms, it is when you try to force another person to do something and if they don't there will be 'consequences'. This is something they teach in school and is in fact illegal.

They teach that in school alright..

"Do this or your getting a detention"
"Do that or we are going to call your parents"
"Do these things or you we will fail you"

Should I sue?

"Send me all of your coins and I won't delete your harddrive"
"Remove that feedback or I'll remove this guy from my list"
"Do my homework or I'll tell mom what you did last night"
"Give me $50,000 in unmarked bills or I will kill this person"

All of the above quoted examples are forms of extortion. This needed clearing up for those that do not know what extortion is.

In laymans terms, it is when you try to force another person to do something and if they don't there will be 'consequences'.

Additional examples of extortion:
"Give me $11.99 or I will not give you a loaf of bread".
"Send me the winning bid amount, or I will not ship you the coin that you won in my auction"
"Tell me the truth about what happened, or I will not ever believe what you say in the future"

He gets it..

loss of trust is not a 'consequence' and this fits into a more of a cause and effect situation.

Yes it is.. IMO

"stop colluding with that scammer or I will not trust you anymore"...  Fair ball..

..

I think the big crux here is that the rules for using the trust system and how you interpret the trust system are wide open, there are no real rules and many people interpret the trust system differently.. There is no supreme court of trust system interpreters..

That is all fine and good until one person with their personal interpretation tries to argue that particular interpretation to another person who happens to interpret it differently..

The trust system is opinion, not fact, and you can hardy argue an opinion..
What information it gives and how it's used can be many different things depending on who you ask..
First you have to have an opinion on how to use the trust system and then an opinion to post to the trust system.

You may not trust johnny anymore because he is late on a lone and post it to the trust system, but that does not mean that Johnnie's brother Joe does not trust johnny anymore..

Furthermore Joe may not think it is correct to leave Johnny negative trust just for being late on a loan, but you might.. Opinions..

Disclaimer: All of this is my opinion, not fact that can be argued.. Just my personal interpretation..

[grtthegreat]

I think a neutral trust is better than a negative one, come on Lutpin, make peace with OgNasty  .

With negative trust on highly trusted and experienced accounts', things can get really bad as OgNasty and Lutpin happen to be valuable contributors to the forum and act as escrow agent and signature campaign manager (and optionally escrow agent too) respectively.

[OgNasty]

Well it seems OgNasty has apologized so are you two ok to kiss and make up now?

His apology was still full of alleging to be the victim, denying any involvement, and saying he feels threatened, so obviously he isn't getting it yet.  Therefore I'd like answers to questions like...


Why didn't he try to send me a PM in the 18 days prior to him starting this thread and does he really think that is trying everything he could?

or

Why did he become defensive and combative with me when learning that I was being harassed by someone on his payroll, instead of trying to resolve the situation?

or

Why is he still paying TwitchySeal for posts he makes publicly harassing me?

or

Is mexxer-2 a Lutpin alt?

or

Why does it say female on his profile?

or

Why is he still claiming to be backed into a corner when he's the one who made first contact?  I apologized for what I said, told him that it was not a threat, said I have no ill intentions towards him, and not to mention that he's the one who created this thread, and he's the one who put negative feedback on my profile first.  It certainly appears from my end that he's on the offensive and I'm apologetic, not the other way around.

or

Why create this thread, and then not participate in it when I ask questions?  Certainly this doesn't suport your, "I did everything remotely possible" claims.  I've taken the time to participate in your thread against my better judgement and respond to ridiculous claims from questionable accounts, why don't you show the same courtesy?

or

You've posted that this thread was in response to you seeing messages where I was considering, "dipping my toe in the signature campaign management market" - So do you think that bashing me publicly was a good response to reading I might become a competitor to you?  That seems to be an ongoing trend with you where you try to do everything you can to hurt competition, which I find disturbing.


I'd love to have an open conversation about this with you.  Since you love posting my PMs anyway, we might as well just hash it out in public.  If you'd prefer to discuss this in private so you don't have to answer the above questions publicly, I'm open to that as well.  Feel free to PM, email, Slack or IRC me.  I'm well aware you already have all that contact info.  You have nothing to fear from contacting me.  I have absolutely no interest in seeing anything bad happen to you whatsoever.  In fact, I'd still just like the harassment of me to stop, and I feel this thread full of random accounts constantly attacking me over how I maintain my trust list is just another method of harassment from you.

[Lutpin]

His apology was still full of alleging to be the victim, denying any involvement, and saying he feels threatened, so obviously he isn't getting it yet.  Therefore I'd like answers to questions like...

You're continuing to accuse me of things I did not do and trying to hold me accountable for the actions of accounts I got no connection with.

Why didn't he try to send me a PM in the 18 days prior to him starting this thread and does he really think that is trying everything he could?

Because directly PMing you didn't have any results. When we talked over at slack, you didn't want to listen to me, I therfore tried bringing in theymos, in hopes you would at least listen to them.

Why did he become defensive and combative with me when learning that I was being harassed by someone on his payroll, instead of trying to resolve the situation?

Because you didn't make this sound like you wanted to talk about someone on my payroll, but rather were attacking me directly. At least you sounded like you intended to.

Why is he still paying TwitchySeal for posts he makes publicly harassing me?

Because they violated none of the rules of that campaign and I'm not going to kick them out of it over this.
Posts I see not fit for receiving a payment are being denied and not paid, which would include posts being considered as "harassment".

Is mexxer-2 a Lutpin alt?

Nope.

Why does it say female on his profile?

Why does it say 5y/o on yours?
My gender is no concern of this forum and I may set it as I like.

Why is he still claiming to be backed into a corner when he's the one who made first contact?  I apologized for what I said, told him that it was not a threat, said I have no ill intentions towards him, and not to mention that he's the one who created this thread, and he's the one who put negative feedback on my profile first.  It certainly appears from my end that he's on the offensive and I'm apologetic, not the other way around.

Mainly because of the PMs you have been sending around, containing wrong statements and lies about myself.
You're also wrong, you had left me a negative feedback first.

Why create this thread, and then not participate in it when I ask questions?  Certainly this doesn't suport your, "I did everything remotely possible" claims.  I've taken the time to participate in your thread against my better judgement and respond to ridiculous claims from questionable accounts, why don't you show the same courtesy?

I'm here answering your "questions".

You've posted that this thread was in response to you seeing messages where I was considering, "dipping my toe in the signature campaign management market" - So do you think that bashing me publicly was a good response to reading I might become a competitor to you?  That seems to be an ongoing trend with you where you try to do everything you can to hurt competition, which I find disturbing.

It's the PM you wrote about me "extorting" other people and stating that I am an alt account to TwitchySeal and game-protect, which is obviously wrong.

I'd love to have an open conversation about this with you.  Since you love posting my PMs anyway, we might as well just hash it out in public.  If you'd prefer to discuss this in private so you don't have to answer the above questions publicly, I'm open to that as well.  Feel free to PM, email, Slack or IRC me.  I'm well aware you already have all that contact info.  You have nothing to fear from contacting me.  I have absolutely no interest in seeing anything bad happen to you whatsoever.  In fact, I'd still just like the harassment of me to stop, and I feel this thread full of random accounts constantly attacking me over how I maintain my trust list is just another method of harassment from you.

So you're again accusing me of having alt accounts and using them to harass you?

[OgNasty]

His apology was still full of alleging to be the victim, denying any involvement, and saying he feels threatened, so obviously he isn't getting it yet.  Therefore I'd like answers to questions like...

You're continuing to accuse me of things I did not do and trying to hold me accountable for the actions of accounts I got no connection with.

You are connected with them.  You are literally paying them money to post lies and harass me.  How is this behavior ok with you?

Why didn't he try to send me a PM in the 18 days prior to him starting this thread and does he really think that is trying everything he could?

Because directly PMing you didn't have any results. When we talked over at slack, you didn't want to listen to me, I therfore tried bringing in theymos, in hopes you would at least listen to them.

How would you know it would have no results?  You stopped communicating with me right before all the harassment started.

Why did he become defensive and combative with me when learning that I was being harassed by someone on his payroll, instead of trying to resolve the situation?

Because you didn't make this sound like you wanted to talk about someone on my payroll, but rather were attacking me directly. At least you sounded like you intended to.

No, I repeatedly have said, "I want this harassment to stop" and since you are paying the person harassing me, I figured going to you to try and resolve the situation was not a bad option.  What I didn't expect was for the harassment to get stepped up, and for you to cut off all contact with me, leave me negative trust, and start this thread.

Why is he still paying TwitchySeal for posts he makes publicly harassing me?

Because they violated none of the rules of that campaign and I'm not going to kick them out of it over this.
Posts I see not fit for receiving a payment are being denied and not paid, which would include posts being considered as "harassment".

So you are going to continue paying a user to attack and harass me.  Awesome.

Is mexxer-2 a Lutpin alt?

Nope.

OK...

Why does it say female on his profile?

Why does it say 5y/o on yours?
My gender is no concern of this forum and I may set it as I like.

It says 5 years old because that is literally how old the account is.  While your gender is no concern, posing as a female on an internet message board is just another disturbing trend of your behavior.

Why is he still claiming to be backed into a corner when he's the one who made first contact?  I apologized for what I said, told him that it was not a threat, said I have no ill intentions towards him, and not to mention that he's the one who created this thread, and he's the one who put negative feedback on my profile first.  It certainly appears from my end that he's on the offensive and I'm apologetic, not the other way around.

Mainly because of the PMs you have been sending around, containing wrong statements and lies about myself.
You're also wrong, you had left me a negative feedback first.

I don't think I've told any lies about you, and I assume the PMs you're talking about me throwing around were ones in which I said I was considering managing signature campaigns.  Why what I am considering doing to help improve the forum threatens you, I will leave up to others to speculate on.

I will say that the highlighted red quote is nothing more than another confirmed lie from Lutpin.  See a trend yet?

Why create this thread, and then not participate in it when I ask questions?  Certainly this doesn't suport your, "I did everything remotely possible" claims.  I've taken the time to participate in your thread against my better judgement and respond to ridiculous claims from questionable accounts, why don't you show the same courtesy?

I'm here answering your "questions".

I appreciate you taking part in the discussion.  Communication is the only way we will see each other's perspective in this.

You've posted that this thread was in response to you seeing messages where I was considering, "dipping my toe in the signature campaign management market" - So do you think that bashing me publicly was a good response to reading I might become a competitor to you?  That seems to be an ongoing trend with you where you try to do everything you can to hurt competition, which I find disturbing.

It's the PM you wrote about me "extorting" other people and stating that I am an alt account to TwitchySeal and game-protect, which is obviously wrong.

You were extorting me.  You literally told me to remove the signature and when I refused, I was repeatedly attacked by members who were collecting money from you to do so.  Also, my question didn't have anything to do with extortion.  I asked why you felt that creating this thread to hurt my reputation was a good response to me considering entering the signature campaign management market.

I'd love to have an open conversation about this with you.  Since you love posting my PMs anyway, we might as well just hash it out in public.  If you'd prefer to discuss this in private so you don't have to answer the above questions publicly, I'm open to that as well.  Feel free to PM, email, Slack or IRC me.  I'm well aware you already have all that contact info.  You have nothing to fear from contacting me.  I have absolutely no interest in seeing anything bad happen to you whatsoever.  In fact, I'd still just like the harassment of me to stop, and I feel this thread full of random accounts constantly attacking me over how I maintain my trust list is just another method of harassment from you.

So you're again accusing me of having alt accounts and using them to harass you?

No, I'm accusing you of using this thread as the latest form of harassment against me.

[Lutpin]

I will say that the highlighted red quote is nothing more than another confirmed lie from Lutpin.

Nope, that is the truth.

I don't think I've told any lies about you, and I assume the PMs you're talking about me throwing around were ones in which I said I was considering managing signature campaigns.  Why what I am considering doing to help improve the forum threatens you, I will leave up to others to speculate on.

At what point will people begin being concerned that Lutpin is taking over the signature campaign management of this forum by attacking competitors with alt accounts until they give in and let him manage their campaigns?  He's literally deriving an income now from extorting signature campaigns into hiring him or else they face the wrath of his alt accounts torment.  He even started an account "game-protect" to try and sell a service where he extorts online gambling houses into paying him or else they get attacked.

I'm surprised it's gone unnoticed so long, but after a quick look at the signature campaign market, it's obvious this user has made a reputation for himself by using alternate accounts to further his agenda. 

Lutpin/TwitchySeal/game-protect is literally just attacking any account who advertises signatures from campaigns he isn't running...  Just take a look at some of their feedbacks to see just how obvious and ridiculous his scam has gotten: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=154329

I'd rather not have to enter the signature campaign management arena just to put him out of business and try to return some honest behavior to this dark corner of the forum, so I'm open to ideas about how else to combat this problem.

"by attacking competitors with alt accounts until they give in and let him manage their campaigns" - That's wrong.
"He's literally deriving an income now from extorting signature campaigns into hiring him" - A lie.
"He even started an account game-protect to try and sell a service where he extorts online gambling houses into paying him or else they get attacked." - Again, this is wrong.

[Wendigo]

Man I am running out of popcorn bags. This thread is the bee's knees of the Bitcointalk quintessence. Thank God I left the Betcoin campaign before the shit hit the fan because, believe it or not, I knew something like this would happen with so many power-tripping psychos running around on the forum.

[OgNasty]

I will say that the highlighted red quote is nothing more than another confirmed lie from Lutpin.

Nope, that is the truth.

That is a lie.  My trust rating even has a link to this thread which you started at the same time you left the negative trust.  Stop lying.  Lies about things that can be confirmed will not benefit you.

Please answer all of my questions instead of picking and choosing, you can also ask me some.  That is how conversations work.

Also, you keep bringing up the alt account thing so let me say publicly my opinion on this.

Lutpin pays TwitchySeal to post on this forum.  TwitchySeal harasses anything touching Betcoin.  game-protect is an alt of TwitchySeal who also threatens and harasses gambling houses.  If you look at the trust or public statements I've made, that is all that I've alleged.  It is a symbiotic relationship.  Since TwitchySeal is obviously a nut, I went to Lutpin to try and resolve this.  Lutpin wouldn't communicate with me about it except to say he had nothing to do with it, which I believe is a documented public lie considering he was literally paying for the harassment to continue.

Whether they're on the same team with the same agenda, or they are the same person, makes little difference from my perspective.  It was all just harassment, and it was being funded by Lutpin.  Do I think Lutpin is literally TwitchySeal, no.  Do I think they have the same agenda and TwitchySeal is just paid to do the dirty work, yes.

[Lutpin]

Stop lying. Lies about things that can be confirmed will not benefit you.

Let us wait and get this confirmed then.

[OgNasty]

Stop lying. Lies about things that can be confirmed will not benefit you.

Let us wait and get this confirmed then.

The only way it is possible for my trust rating to be first would be if you removed and replaced yours after I left mine.  Which might explain why trust feedback from another member was immediately left above mine, to stop me from doing that  (I thought that was odd, but didn't make the potential connection until now).  I sure hope things like this are logged too, as that would just open another can of worms.

While we wait, would you mind answering my questions that you ignored?

You are literally paying them money to post lies and harass me.  How is this behavior ok with you?

 

How would you know it would have no results?  You stopped communicating with me right before all the harassment started.

 

Why did you become defensive and combative with me when learning that I was being harassed by someone on your payroll, instead of trying to resolve the situation?

Because you didn't make this sound like you wanted to talk about someone on my payroll, but rather were attacking me directly. At least you sounded like you intended to.

No, I repeatedly have said, "I want this harassment to stop" and since you are paying the person harassing me, I figured going to you to try and resolve the situation was not a bad option.  What I didn't expect was for the harassment to get stepped up, and for you to cut off all contact with me, leave me negative trust, and start this thread.

So I told you I was being harassed by someone on your payroll, and you took this as me not wanting to talk about someone on your payroll?

Why is he still paying TwitchySeal for posts he makes publicly harassing me?

Because they violated none of the rules of that campaign and I'm not going to kick them out of it over this.
Posts I see not fit for receiving a payment are being denied and not paid, which would include posts being considered as "harassment".

So you are going to continue paying a user to attack and harass me.  Awesome.

Why would you continue paying someone to harass me?  Doesn't seem like trustworthy behavior to me.

[Lutpin]

Whether they're on the same team with the same agenda, or they are the same person, makes little difference from my perspective.  It was all just harassment, and it was being funded by Lutpin.  Do I think Lutpin is literally TwitchySeal, no.  Do I think they have the same agenda and TwitchySeal is just paid to do the dirty work, yes.

Twitchy is being paid for advertising a site in their signature, not for doing anyones "dirty work".
Their payment comes from the displaying of that signature below their posts, not from the content of those posts.
Should I consider their posts to be violating the forum rules, I report them, should I consider them not being eligible for a payment for some other reason, I exclude those posts.
A post which contains open harassment would be one I have to exclude, I did so in the past with a few posts by Twitchy and I will continue to do this,
that however doesn't mean I can't pay them for their "good" posts.
This doesn't mean I necessarily have to agree with what the user writes, or I "have the same agenda".
I pay for a lot of posts which contain very different opinions all over the forum, having a paid signature doesn't mean you are being censored by the people paying you,
as long as these posts are acceptable, which opinion the user has is none of my concern, I might openly disagree with them and still pay them for these posts at the end of the round.

[OgNasty]

Whether they're on the same team with the same agenda, or they are the same person, makes little difference from my perspective.  It was all just harassment, and it was being funded by Lutpin.  Do I think Lutpin is literally TwitchySeal, no.  Do I think they have the same agenda and TwitchySeal is just paid to do the dirty work, yes.

Twitchy is being paid for advertising a site in their signature, not for doing anyones "dirty work".
Their payment comes from the displaying of that signature below their posts, not from the content of those posts.
Should I consider their posts to be violating the forum rules, I report them, should I consider them not being eligible for a payment for some other reason, I exclude those posts.
A post which contains open harassment would be one I have to exclude, I did so in the past with a few posts by Twitchy and I will continue to do this,
that however doesn't mean I can't pay them for their "good" posts.
This doesn't mean I necessarily have to agree with what the user writes, or I "have the same agenda".
I pay for a lot of posts which contain very different opinions all over the forum, having a paid signature doesn't mean you are being censored by the people paying you,
as long as these posts are acceptable, which opinion the user has is none of my concern, I might openly disagree with them and still pay them for these posts at the end of the round.

So TwitchySeal can go around harassing forum members, and you have no problem paying him to advertise your signature or leaving him positive trust, but if I advertise something you don't like, you have a problem with it and I'm untrusted?  Even when I'm taking steps to resolve the situation as quickly as possible?

[Lutpin]

So TwitchySeal can go around harassing forum members, and you have no problem paying him to advertise your signature or leaving him positive trust, but if I advertise something you don't like, you have a problem with it and I'm untrusted?

I hadn't left Twitchy any positive trust, the reason for which I explained in my neutral raiting on their account.
If a user posts something inappropriate, I deny this post and they don't get paid for it. That's the immediate penalty for it.
Unless they accumulate a lot of inappropriate posts, or totally fall out of line, I don't have to kick them over a few denied posts. I didn't consider Twitchy to have done either.

I never said you are untrusted based on the signature you're wearing.


Taking the stick around, you are allowed to tell me whom to enroll into a campaign and not, but I am not allowed to suggest you considering who to advertise and who not?

[actmyname]

So TwitchySeal can go around harassing forum members, and you have no problem paying him to advertise your signature or leaving him positive trust, but if I advertise something you don't like, you have a problem with it and I'm untrusted?  Even when I'm taking steps to resolve the situation as quickly as possible?

I just have a question, though - have you read this post?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.0

If you haven't, I'd highly suggest doing so - with an unbiased mind.

Also, from which account did Betcoin ask you to advertise for them? (If you wish to answer)

[OgNasty]

Taking the stick around, you are allowed to tell me whom to enroll into a campaign and not, but I am not allowed to suggest you considering who to advertise and who not?

No, I don't care who you enroll in your campaign.  I simply pointed out that I was being harassed by someone you are paying, for disagreeing with your opinion, and you continue paying them yet claim to have no part in it.  You also think this is acceptable and trustworthy behavior.

I just have a question, though - have you read this post?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.0

If you haven't, I'd highly suggest doing so - with an unbiased mind.

Also, from which account did Betcoin ask you to advertise for them? (If you wish to answer)

TwitchySeal has lost all credibility with me.  I have him set to ignore.  After all the lies and harassment from him, I am more likely to believe the opposite of what he says.  If anyone trustworthy had a legitimate first hand complaint, there was a time when I would have loved to have read it.  However, the only issue remaining for me is why Lutpin is lying and paying someone to harass me as well as starting threads and leaving negative trust while pretending to be the victim while he is clearly documented to be the aggressor.

No, I'm not going to name the person who was harassed into leaving the Betcoin signature campaign management position.  It is public knowledge though if you cared to go look at their thread.

[mammabitcoin2u]

'm with the other guy who's outta popcorn coffee actually reading this thread.

MY question is STILL UNANSWERED:

Explain this "trust".  What does OgNasty trusting Mitchell who trusts RHavar (sp?) who trusts Twitchy got to do with anything?  How is this connected?  

If I leave feedback for either OgNasty/Lutpin...........saying "good purchase went smooth and quick" <----that JUST means I made a purchase and I'm leaving a review.  I don't believe my feedback links me to anyone.

So again ANSWER someone please?

@OgNasty........on the post of asking why Lutpin is paying for Twitchy signature....because he is "harassing" you.  Because, then anyone who got shafted by Betcoin.ag....could say the same to you AND to anyone using that signature.  

@Lutpin........saying you are paying for good posts and possibly won't for others.......doesn't say much.  As I said, previously, when I see these signatures associated with posts of garbage........I stay away from those sites and don't even bother.  Maybe others who play with BTC doesn't give a shit, but I do.  And IF I do, there are those who aren't members/aren't posting and reading this too.

Again, you both have good reputations.  I say keep them as is.  I'm beginning to wonder if so many on this forum are kids??

[OgNasty]

Explain this "trust".  What does OgNasty trusting Mitchell who trusts RHavar (sp?) who trusts Twitchy got to do with anything?  How is this connected?  

Use the search function.  This isn't the place to learn about how the forum works.  You are beating a dead horse.  Last time I'm responding to you.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7729/17731573352_13d1b0906c_o.png

[The Sceptical Chymist]

I won't weigh in on this spat after this, because it's not my spat and no one cares what I think anyway.

Just want to say:  I'm in a campaign that Lutpin manages, and I can't imagine anyone would think that Lutpin endorses any of what I say just because I rent out that little signature space.  And while I'm grateful that he invited me into the 777 campaign, that doesn't make me a shill for him, either. 

I would use OGNasty as an escrow--or any other transaction--on this forum in a heartbeat, still.  I don't think he's in any way less trustworthy because he posted that Lutpin should off himself.  It was a messed up thing to say, but he apologized, and that was the right thing to do. 

But the two of them are still bitch slapping each other, and it would be nice if this could be resolved peacefully.  Obviously there are still some smoldering resentments on both sides, and issues that may or may not be legitimate.

As far as the fact that Lutpin put "female" on his profile...that's kind of petty.  I don't trust any info on anyone on the profile page, nor should any of that be taken as true.  People want to be anonymous--that's the nature of bitcoin.  I expect that info on that page to be untrue unless proven otherwise.

[OgNasty]

I would use OGNasty as an escrow--or any other transaction--on this forum in a heartbeat, still.

Thank you.  For me, the issue isn't who's pretending to be female, or whether a signature campaign manager is accountable for what their paid members say or how many alt accounts someone has.  It is an issue that Lutpin struck first in every case (messaging me to remove my signature, making this thread, posting personal messages, leaving negative trust) yet claims to be the victim, all while actively paying someone who has been harassing me and saying he will continue to do so.  

It just doesn't add up and no matter how much distraction and redirection at my responsible trust management comes from anonymous accounts, I don't think this type of behavior is something that would be expected to go unnoticed.  Should I have suggested that the problem be resolved by Lutpin killing himself?  No.  That is why I apologized.  Should I be wearing a signature with this much controversy surrounding it?  Probably not.  That is why I removed it literally as quickly as I possibly could while also showing professional courtesy to those involved.  Should Lutpin have given me negative feedback for lashing out at him for paying people to attack me?  I would think a simple conversation and end to the funded attacks would have resolved the issue better than another unsolicited attack via this forum.  Should he have started this thread with false accusations and alleging that I started this when it is fact that he messaged me first?  No.  Should he have maybe sent me one message in the 18 days prior to starting this thread and leaving negative feedback?  Yes.

[RHavar]

What I find strange is Lutpin says OgNasty left him negative trust first, and OgNasty says Lutpin left him negative trust first. I have no idea who's telling the truth, but obviously only one of them is. I imagine in the database the trust timestamp is a timestamp and not just a date, so would an admin be so kind as to reveal the liar?