My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[mrhelpful]

Did the op ever win his class action law suit just curious.

If sucks to see that its only medium sized IT business to get pretty much raped by a bank and they saw his account like some piggy bank or spending spree.

[RealBitcoin]

Did the op ever win his class action law suit just curious.

If sucks to see that its only medium sized IT business to get pretty much raped by a bank and they saw his account like some piggy bank or spending spree.

The bank is probably liquidated by now, and you know that the executives are not personally responsible with their money in a corporation, only the corporations assets can be used to compensate liabilities.

Well if the executives did something wrong then you could probably do some legal action against them, but I bet you would win. They got better lawyers, and the case would last decades, so its not really worth getting into.

I`m sorry that this happened but atleast the teaching of this event is that, never hold all your money in 1 bank, and only hold smaller amounts.

I think diversifying in a basket of cryptocurrencies is the safest method now, even if they have 5-10% drawdowns its the only technology in my view that will survive the upcoming crisis, and in my opinion its the best and safest money storage that has ever been invented.

[Snorek]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

+1. Well-said.

So that means we will be slaves forever? Because we are alive and we are being subjected to taxation? There is no escape from this situation, other that be a homeless or quit your life and move to some 3rd world country to avoid that? Bitcoin is not cure we are waiting for?

[teemus]

that sucks, i had no idea they could take 700k from one person to repay debts.

[techgeek]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

+1. Well-said.

So that means we will be slaves forever? Because we are alive and we are being subjected to taxation? There is no escape from this situation, other that be a homeless or quit your life and move to some 3rd world country to avoid that? Bitcoin is not cure we are waiting for?

Its slavery in a different form, then a physical one.

But intitally I get what the guys saying, as long you work and pay your tax the income you earn is obviously shredded. Most of these guys who make big money outside from banks are using third party sources for off-short accounts to reduce the tax.

[RealBitcoin]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

+1. Well-said.

So that means we will be slaves forever? Because we are alive and we are being subjected to taxation? There is no escape from this situation, other that be a homeless or quit your life and move to some 3rd world country to avoid that? Bitcoin is not cure we are waiting for?

Its slavery in a different form, then a physical one.

But intitally I get what the guys saying, as long you work and pay your tax the income you earn is obviously shredded. Most of these guys who make big money outside from banks are using third party sources for off-short accounts to reduce the tax.

Think about it, if your Income Tax (cumulatively whatever % gets deducted from your income) is 50%

Then if you live 70 years (the average in europe) , then 35 years of your precious life, creativity, energy, and wealth gets wasted on some bureocrats, welfare junkies and politician corruption.

How is that sound?

[lissandra]

Seeings op`s last update when that crisis happened to his IT business makes me cry.

I can only imagine if I was in that position and I also started business at a wrong country just because my country sucks at governing..

It would be nice to see if the Op update us where is now.

[Get-Paid.com]

Seeings op`s last update when that crisis happened to his IT business makes me cry.

I can only imagine if I was in that position and I also started business at a wrong country just because my country sucks at governing..

It would be nice to see if the Op update us where is now.

I agree with every word and wish the same thing.

[molecular]

taxes are usually not on transactions. I'm not sure what you mean by "BTC to BTC transactions will be tax free".

taxes are usually on things like income or gains and then there's a tax in many jurisdictions on creating value (VAT)

Thats a big misconception, taxes arent on BITCOIN or USD or EUR or the currency itself.

Taxes are on you. You are the instrument that is taxed, not the currency. Or more precisely your actions/liberties are taxed. You are their tax slave and they tax your freedom (or your right) of doing an economic transactions or economic activity.

They cant tax bitcoin because bitcoin is not a living being, but they can tax you.

+1. Well-said.

So that means we will be slaves forever? Because we are alive and we are being subjected to taxation? There is no escape from this situation, other that be a homeless or quit your life and move to some 3rd world country to avoid that? Bitcoin is not cure we are waiting for?

Its slavery in a different form, then a physical one.

But intitally I get what the guys saying, as long you work and pay your tax the income you earn is obviously shredded. Most of these guys who make big money outside from banks are using third party sources for off-short accounts to reduce the tax.

Think about it, if your Income Tax (cumulatively whatever % gets deducted from your income) is 50%

Then if you live 70 years (the average in europe) , then 35 years of your precious life, creativity, energy, and wealth gets wasted on some bureocrats, welfare junkies and politician corruption.

How is that sound?

You know what's sad: it's even worse than that. Those 50% aren't even enough for those bureocrats, welfare junkies and corrupt politicians. No, they need to print money ("hidden inflation tax") on top of that. Not only does that take even more value from the people, but it also makes "saving" impossible (or at least less effective) so people, in fear, have to resort to pushing most of the rest of their income into dubious (expensive) insurance vehicles or try to "invest" it themselves (very risky).

It's really really fucked up.

[RealBitcoin]

You know what's sad: it's even worse than that. Those 50% aren't even enough for those bureocrats, welfare junkies and corrupt politicians. No, they need to print money ("hidden inflation tax") on top of that. Not only does that take even more value from the people, but it also makes "saving" impossible (or at least less effective) so people, in fear, have to resort to pushing most of the rest of their income into dubious (expensive) insurance vehicles or try to "invest" it themselves (very risky).

It's really really fucked up.

Indeed,  it is a ponzi scheme so there is no other way to finance it but through theft. It's as if you got your average ponzi scheme that is collapsing because no new investors are coming in (low birthrate in europe?) you have to rob the earlier investors perpetually to keep them paying back, but the ratio is first 1:1, then 1:0.9 then 1:0.8 and so on less and less. You get robbed half of your income but you get back only 1-2% in terms of pensions, welfare or whatever. Then it becomes a pure theft when you dont get back anything.

It's more dramatical if you think about it in wasted human years.

You know the Greek problems started to culminate after the 2004 Athens Olympics. Think about it, they wasted so much money on those stadiums that they never used since and probably never use it again.

How many human life hours have been wasted on that? How much "half of income" or "half of their life work & savings" were wasted to achieve that? And for nothing...


And how many people will in the future lose their jobs, starve of hunger, get thrown out of their homes or die because of these thefts and wastings?

[SolarSilver]

Think about it, if your Income Tax (cumulatively whatever % gets deducted from your income) is 50%

Then if you live 70 years (the average in europe) , then 35 years of your precious life, creativity, energy, and wealth gets wasted on some bureocrats, welfare junkies and politician corruption.

How else do you expect to pay for the welfare state you live in (and have profited from so far by now)?

How old are you now?

Have you gone to college or university? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? Got any kids? Ever driven a car on a public road? Ever eaten food that was regulated and controlled by a food inspector?

[pehchan]

Awful 

[bojan92]

Think about it, if your Income Tax (cumulatively whatever % gets deducted from your income) is 50%

Then if you live 70 years (the average in europe) , then 35 years of your precious life, creativity, energy, and wealth gets wasted on some bureocrats, welfare junkies and politician corruption.

How else do you expect to pay for the welfare state you live in (and have profited from so far by now)?

How old are you now?

Have you gone to college or university? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? Got any kids? Ever driven a car on a public road? Ever eaten food that was regulated and controlled by a food inspector?

Ah c`mon dont gimme that bullshit. I`m 29 only paid for the welfare never received any.

• I did go to college, and I paid for it, not much use for my diploma, it was a scam.
• I`ve been to doctor, it's called health insurance, I pay that separately.
• I`ve drove on public road, thats what property taxes are for.
• I`ve eated food poisoned with all kinds of GMO, preservants and additives, no thanks fucking food inspectors.

I buy my vegetables directly from farmers usually and they are not inspected, I havent been poisoned yet by them. Yet the inspected foods in the stores are full with poison. Looks like another useless bureocrat job eh food inspectors?

But income tax? Fuck no, I only paid that, but never received any fucking benefit from it.

And it only grows like a cancer, because you have no fucking clue how the economy works. The income tax is a collateral for the debt of the country, so if the bureocrats overspend on shitty projects & corruption, guess how they will pay the interest on it. (kicking the can down the road for several generations until a global financial meltdown happens, the one that's just around the corner)

The income tax is the interest on the national debt, which was likely accumulated by people who lived before I was even born (so please think before you talk)

You are so right, everything you use you pay for it. How can someone block your funds. It can be done if you owe money or you are involved in some kind of illegal activities. But this is just too much. Blocking your funds to pay their dept. You pay taxes right, the government should pay the dept with the tax money.

[SolarSilver]

Ah c`mon dont gimme that bullshit. I`m 29 only paid for the welfare never received any.

• I did go to college, and I paid for it, not much use for my diploma, it was a scam.

I paid EUR 650 / year for university for about 10 years, all included. Diplomas don't have any value, but that has nothing to do with how much you had to pay for to get one.

Some of my friends in Denmark get paid for the full period they attend university...

• I`ve been to doctor, it's called health insurance, I pay that separately.

Plenty of medical benefits you get are subsidised and can't be paid by just the simple health insurance you pay.

My wife ended up in the hospital for our third child which was born premature at 28 weeks and we paid EUR 80 in total fees for 2 months of hospitalization. Common practise here...

• I`ve drove on public road, thats what property taxes are for.

Actually public roads are paid for by fuel taxes and road tax, that is why I pay EUR 7 / gallon of petrol in this country and EUR 600 / year road tax for the privilege of driving a car

• I`ve eated food poisoned with all kinds of GMO, preservants and additives, no thanks fucking food inspectors.

At least in this continent GMO's are banned from our food

I buy my vegetables directly from farmers usually and they are not inspected, I havent been poisoned yet by them. Yet the inspected foods in the stores are full with poison. Looks like another useless bureocrat job eh food inspectors?

I own part of a bio farm and my kids only drink raw milk, so that is a matter of life choice.

But income tax? Fuck no, I only paid that, but never received any fucking benefit from it.

How else is a government that can't produce anything, let alone earn any money, going to pay for all of the above?

You are just blind to the many ways you are getting benefits.

And it only grows like a cancer, because you have no fucking clue how the economy works. The income tax is a collateral for the debt of the country, so if the bureocrats overspend on shitty projects & corruption, guess how they will pay the interest on it. (kicking the can down the road for several generations until a global financial meltdown happens, the one that's just around the corner)

The income tax is the interest on the national debt, which was likely accumulated by people who lived before I was even born (so please think before you talk)

I've been around long enough to have thought many things over and yes, I must admit that over the years I have paid many taxes but I also benefited from the large infrastructure put at my disposal. Stating you never receive anything back is just naive and shortsighted.

On the other hand, yes, I'm all in favour of more just taxes and benefits, and yes politicians make stupid choices pushed forward by their selfish drive to get re-elected.

Less taxes, sure. Better places taxes, of course

No taxes? Not in the welfare state we live in

Try to start you own country somewhere on a deserted island. Put in place your own infrastructure and government

Good luck

[SolarSilver]

Lets say I agree with you there. Did you know that about 95% of the taxes the government collects gets wasted on bureocracy, corruption, and misallocation, and only 5% gets allocated effectively to government programs? I think its the ultimate wasting machine, this bureocracy.

Did you know that about 95% of statistics are made up on the spot and gross exaggerations?

Are you saying a country like Norway, the USA and Spain has exactly this 95% misallocation? How about 50% for Norway and 90% for
Spain? Quite a lot of spread...

Please stop making up numbers to try and prove your point, it's not helping your credibility.

I dont see how is that beneficial to anybody?

In Belgium, the government is the biggest employer with over 25% of the workforce giving some kind of a job (from train conductor over
police to school teachers). See it as a form of social employment ;-)

You should start your enlightment from the bondages of socialism by watching this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XooUY4p4RaY

Stefan is always fun but what is the point? I'm not talking about the poor. I'm talking about the vast amount of benefits the middle class gets from the government. Actually in our current model, the richer you are, the more you benefit. The poor always end up with the short stick.

C`mon man, we are crypto-currency users here we should be 1000x more intelligent than the average zombie voter.

If you worry so much about the infrastructure and the safety-net the welfare gives to you, I can think of 100x better ways to build a society, with all the goodies that we have now, but without the burdens.

Start for example here:
http://bitnation.co/

They will offer decentralized private pension service in the future. We all know that government pensions are a giant waste and prone to politician theft from it. While classical private pensions usually get looted by banks. However decentralized private pensions with a blockchain system, are fully transparent and just as safe as bitcoin.

We should be thinking this way, and if we cant get rid of taxes entirely in the future, atleast we can make them 9999999% more efficient than they are today with all the corruption that is going on.

100000% more intelligent and 9999999% more efficient sound like numbers you are pulling out of your arse

Yes, the current welfare model is a pyramid scheme

And no I'm not interested in investing in another one like XBN

[organofcorti]

Thus eventually the middle class either breaks out and joins the elite, or it gets impoverished. Socialism will make everyone equal, equally poor I mean

Quick point: "Poor" is a term of comparison. If everyone has the same amount of money, they can't be "equally poor", they just all have the same amount of money. You might as well say"equally rich".

[hdbuck]

Thus eventually the middle class either breaks out and joins the elite, or it gets impoverished. Socialism will make everyone equal, equally poor I mean

Quick point: "Poor" is a term of comparison. If everyone has the same amount of money, they can't be "equally poor", they just all have the same amount of money. You might as well say"equally rich".

right but socialism tends not to take into account 'the rich people' implementing it.

[ElectricMucus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QDv4sYwjO0

[molecular]

I've been around long enough to have thought many things over and yes, I must admit that over the years I have paid many taxes but I also benefited from the large infrastructure put at my disposal. Stating you never receive anything back is just naive and shortsighted.

I think it's no question we receive something back from the state. The point is "how much" do we receive back and "how much" taxes do we pay for that.

I think the state I live in is very inefficient in serving its people.

That state is probably highly efficient in serving other people / entities, though.

[mrhelpful]

Think about it, if your Income Tax (cumulatively whatever % gets deducted from your income) is 50%

Then if you live 70 years (the average in europe) , then 35 years of your precious life, creativity, energy, and wealth gets wasted on some bureocrats, welfare junkies and politician corruption.

How else do you expect to pay for the welfare state you live in (and have profited from so far by now)?

How old are you now?

Have you gone to college or university? Ever been to a doctor or hospital? Got any kids? Ever driven a car on a public road? Ever eaten food that was regulated and controlled by a food inspector?

Ah c`mon dont gimme that bullshit. I`m 29 only paid for the welfare never received any.

• I did go to college, and I paid for it, not much use for my diploma, it was a scam.
• I`ve been to doctor, it's called health insurance, I pay that separately.
• I`ve drove on public road, thats what property taxes are for.
• I`ve eated food poisoned with all kinds of GMO, preservants and additives, no thanks fucking food inspectors.

I buy my vegetables directly from farmers usually and they are not inspected, I havent been poisoned yet by them. Yet the inspected foods in the stores are full with poison. Looks like another useless bureocrat job eh food inspectors?

But income tax? Fuck no, I only paid that, but never received any fucking benefit from it.

And it only grows like a cancer, because you have no fucking clue how the economy works. The income tax is a collateral for the debt of the country, so if the bureocrats overspend on shitty projects & corruption, guess how they will pay the interest on it. (kicking the can down the road for several generations until a global financial meltdown happens, the one that's just around the corner)

The income tax is the interest on the national debt, which was likely accumulated by people who lived before I was even born (so please think before you talk)

You sound like me, are you my long lost twin who juices coldpress juice  

Everything you just mentioned is on point, its the harsh reality lol. Income tax just blows, unless youre a big coropration like those big guys who do it really well and pay the pros to make it like 14%.

Making that off-shore tatic called the double irish sandwich, where their outer offices move their money into multiple placements lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY

I`m just curious if they will ever use bitcoin at a huge level to cut those expenses.