My bank account's got robbed by European Commission. Over 700k is lost.

[SolarSilver]

I think it's no question we receive something back from the state. The point is "how much" do we receive back and "how much" taxes do we pay for that.

I think the state I live in is very inefficient in serving its people.

That state is probably highly efficient in serving other people / entities, though.

But the problem is some here think (because of the wasting of money by the government) that the state should not tax them anything and they are blind to the many benefits they got (even though they think they pay for all of it).

Some things like education you can't run as a private sector company. All of us went to kindergarten and to school up to 18 years (I'm excluding higher education here). None of us had to pay any considerable part of those expenses, it was paid out of the taxes on our parents and many other inhabitants who don't even have children. Is that unfair to the people who don't have children? What if those people smoke and need health care when they are older? I don't smoke... why should I pay for them? The list goes on and on...

I'm all for a more efficient and leaner government, of course. Our country has some of the highest taxes but we don't have any capital gains tax (stock exchange and bitcoin speculation is not taxed). There is a need for a tax shift and more fair taxes, but still, we need some taxes to pay for the lifestyle we enjoy.

[Barnabe]

I've been around long enough to have thought many things over and yes, I must admit that over the years I have paid many taxes but I also benefited from the large infrastructure put at my disposal. Stating you never receive anything back is just naive and shortsighted.

I think it's no question we receive something back from the state. The point is "how much" do we receive back and "how much" taxes do we pay for that.

I think the state I live in is very inefficient in serving its people.

That state is probably highly efficient in serving other people / entities, though.

They are the ones who can legally and easily corrupt government, oups I meant "lobbying" ...

[Bagatell]

Our country

Which country is that?

[SolarSilver]

Our country

Which country is that?

Belgium has no capital gains tax and has very high taxes on everything else (inheritance, labour, savings interest, cars, ...)

[RealBitcoin]

I've been around long enough to have thought many things over and yes, I must admit that over the years I have paid many taxes but I also benefited from the large infrastructure put at my disposal. Stating you never receive anything back is just naive and shortsighted.

I think it's no question we receive something back from the state. The point is "how much" do we receive back and "how much" taxes do we pay for that.

I think the state I live in is very inefficient in serving its people.

That state is probably highly efficient in serving other people / entities, though.

Yep, about 5% of the taxes you pay get actually used. Rest of them gets stolen by politicians, mal-used or stolen by bureocracts, or just simply lost in all kinds of ridiculous projects.

A private charity system is 1900% more efficient than the welfare state, which has been proven and demonstrated time and time again. We capitalists do want to help the poor, but not by stealing from other people, but by empowering the poor people until they need it, and after that they become free of the shackles of poverty, and not becomes slaves to the welfare.

Of course, poor bribed thief bureocrats would loose their jobs, if a private charity system would be introduced. My heart would be broken for them... 

You sound like me, are you my long lost twin who juices coldpress juice 

Everything you just mentioned is on point, its the harsh reality lol. Income tax just blows, unless youre a big coropration like those big guys who do it really well and pay the pros to make it like 14%.

Making that off-shore tatic called the double irish sandwich, where their outer offices move their money into multiple placements lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY

I`m just curious if they will ever use bitcoin at a huge level to cut those expenses.

Now dont say that, you make me think that I was adopted, and you are really my lost twin separated at birth lol

Actually it's far worse than what I just said,  I was just trying to scratch the surface of the problem.


For you to understand the big scam/fraud that we are all victims of you should watch this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0


It explains very throughoutly why taxes are needed, and how this ponzi economy works. Basically the taxes are the dividends of the bankers ponzi scheme, and we pay it in order for they to lend us money (rob us more with inflation).

Or in other words we pay taxes (get robbed) in order to let the bankers to rob us with more debt & inflation That is the real harsh reality my friend!

[fr4nkthetank]

That sucks dude, but then again, that's kinda what you get for trying to evade taxes   At least, if that's what you were doing.  Nothing wrong with paying taxes.

[RealBitcoin]

That sucks dude, but then again, that's kinda what you get for trying to evade taxes   At least, if that's what you were doing.  Nothing wrong with paying taxes.

You must have missed my post before you posted, please read my previous posts, and you will see that taxes are not what you think they are.

You pay tax in order to be robbed in the future by exponentially increasing debt. That is all there is, the social services make up only a small fraction of the tax payments.

[knowhow]

well did you people asked yourselfs why Grecia and others,Portugal,Spain and more will come are facing economic problems?Who rule the country ,politicians are making this mess up with economy stealling what a worker pay to self benefict,im pissed we need to clean them all and put economist lets say there are over 500 politicians at each country getting around 4000 up to 50000euros montly... why they earn such thing ?some years ago this same politicians didnt earned such...and no one wanna be ,now all wanna be politician to earn doing nothing besides fuck the worker sorry the word....I dont understand why people keeps voting they should stop it when they know that politician cant run a country ,in my region the hospital hasnt material to work,water miss around 9 days in a month..and the best thing is there is the city is surrounded by mountains .....and there is material to put already but those bastards politicians are waiting elections to make it happen... meanwhile population can survive the way we are ..

[lissandra]

Okay, well the whole tax situation is never going to dissapear.

So its matter of how much can we save ourself personally then, or eventually owning a bank yourself and join up like chase, jp morgan, like the rest of these 1% cats.

Except one day you`ll embrace bitcoin when youre up there.

[SolarSilver]

A private charity system is 1900% more efficient than the welfare state, which has been proven and demonstrated time and time again. We capitalists do want to help the poor, but not by stealing from other people, but by empowering the poor people until they need it, and after that they become free of the shackles of poverty, and not becomes slaves to the welfare.

A private charity system does not work, which has been proven and demonstrated in the 1800's where the poor largely depended on large company owners and religious institutions to come to their aid.

Due to the human nature of the donor, he/she only wanted to give to certain poor who suited his vision of society. This gave way for all sorts of abuse by landowners and churches to try and convert people to live in model villages where for example alcohol was banned or they had to follow certain religious practises. Look up Port Sunlight in the UK and Boulder City in the USA. (Boulder City basically gave rise to the mobster run Las Vegas.)

Putting a large monolith like the state in charge of charging taxes and distributing it over a large part of the population according to policies set by elected politicians made wealth redistribution much more democratic and takes away the difficult choice on where to spend his charity away from the individual. Downside, a large institution has more overhead than the individual... but:

Many of you would not have liked to live in the 1800's where some nutter in charge had the power of forcing you to dress a certain way, cut your hair, telling you to marry instead of living together in sin or prohibit you from having a drink of alcohol when you feel like it.

We enjoy living in a free, secular society and sometimes forget there is a price to pay for a democratic system does does not discriminate against colour, religious choice, choice of sexual orientation, freedom of enterprise, ... Heck even sitting at home ranting on Internet forums all day ;-)

So, basic taxes are fine, too much overhead makes too high taxes and that is bad... find a middle ground

[RealBitcoin]

A private charity system is 1900% more efficient than the welfare state, which has been proven and demonstrated time and time again. We capitalists do want to help the poor, but not by stealing from other people, but by empowering the poor people until they need it, and after that they become free of the shackles of poverty, and not becomes slaves to the welfare.

A private charity system does not work, which has been proven and demonstrated in the 1800's where the poor largely depended on large company owners and religious institutions to come to their aid.

Due to the human nature of the donor, he/she only wanted to give to certain poor who suited his vision of society. This gave way for all sorts of abuse by landowners and churches to try and convert people to live in model villages where for example alcohol was banned or they had to follow certain religious practises. Look up Port Sunlight in the UK and Boulder City in the USA. (Boulder City basically gave rise to the mobster run Las Vegas.)

Putting a large monolith like the state in charge of charging taxes and distributing it over a large part of the population according to policies set by elected politicians made wealth redistribution much more democratic and takes away the difficult choice on where to spend his charity away from the individual. Downside, a large institution has more overhead than the individual... but:

Many of you would not have liked to live in the 1800's where some nutter in charge had the power of forcing you to dress a certain way, cut your hair, telling you to marry instead of living together in sin or prohibit you from having a drink of alcohol when you feel like it.

We enjoy living in a free, secular society and sometimes forget there is a price to pay for a democratic system does does not discriminate against colour, religious choice, choice of sexual orientation, freedom of enterprise, ... Heck even sitting at home ranting on Internet forums all day ;-)

So, basic taxes are fine, too much overhead makes too high taxes and that is bad... find a middle ground

The 1800 was a vastly more primitive era to our current era.

We have today 1000000x more charities working than ever before in the history.

You can just go to http://www.gofundme.com/ and ask for a charity for whatever reason, and people will give you money.

If people were not forced to pay taxes, they would be even more generous.

=============================

You really underestimate the internet + cryptocurrencies. I tell you with these 2 great inventions, we can change society to a better one.

[SolarSilver]

The 1800 was a vastly more primitive era to our current era.

We have today 1000000x more charities working than ever before in the history.

You can just go to http://www.gofundme.com/ and ask for a charity for whatever reason, and people will give you money.

If there is this abundance of 'free money' around, then why are the poor still struggling? Is the 'man' keeping them down? Come on...

Is a charity going to fund all elementary schools in the USA? Then why are all these schools still suffering from being underfunded?

Charities are a nice way to soothe your conscience, make you feel good you did something for the climate, animals or a small school in Guatemala but it's not a way to address the vast needs of a large population. Not at the level tax payers money is doing today.

[Bagatell]

stuff

What do taxes have to do with stealing from bank accounts?

[RealBitcoin]

The 1800 was a vastly more primitive era to our current era.

We have today 1000000x more charities working than ever before in the history.

You can just go to http://www.gofundme.com/ and ask for a charity for whatever reason, and people will give you money.

If there is this abundance of 'free money' around, then why are the poor still struggling? Is the 'man' keeping them down? Come on...

Is a charity going to fund all elementary schools in the USA? Then why are all these schools still suffering from being underfunded?

Charities are a nice way to soothe your conscience, make you feel good you did something for the climate, animals or a small school in Guatemala but it's not a way to address the vast needs of a large population. Not at the level tax payers money is doing today.

No elementary schools would be private and for profit. Yes you would pay 50-60$ daily fee or whatever to teach your kids + meal, but it would be worth it, given that private kindengardens are good.

I was just in a state kindengarden lately and it crawls with bugs and the walls are full of mold. Is that how you care for the children?

A private school/kindengarden is clean that you can eat from the toilet, and it has very nice interior architecture, and disciplined workers (who have went under background checks).

Of course we need to stop being robbed and then people could afford this kind of luxury.


It is really hard to save money and spend for these stuff when the fiat money loses 40% of its value in 5-10 years 

stuff

What do taxes have to do with stealing from bank accounts?

Its is the same thing.

[molecular]

You can just go to http://www.gofundme.com/ and ask for a charity for whatever reason, and people will give you money.

If people were not forced to pay taxes, they would be even more generous.

Also if people didn't have the excuse of tax-sponsored welfare existing (a very inefficient system), they would not only be more generous, they would also be way more effective at reintegrating people and getting them back to some sort of productivity.

Think about it: the goal should not simply be to support people that are in trouble for whatever reason, but to try to reintegrate them into society and put them back into a place where they can be useful to others and/or productive within the economy. The state-sponsored programs are clearly not very good at that and I suspect that more local initiatives (which are now suppressed by being in unfair competition with the state programs coerced upon us) would excel at that job.

[SolarSilver]

No elementary schools would be private and for profit. Yes you would pay 50-60$ daily fee or whatever to teach your kids + meal, but it would be worth it, given that private kindengardens are good.

Do you even have children? No parent can afford spending USD 1250 / month on child education on top of all the other costs they incur...
My 4 children would cost me over USD 8M until they are 18... Did you even do the math?

It would be an effective way of dealing with the planet's overpopulation, of course ;-)

We have income dependant child care, for example we pay EUR 1.56 / day but high income families pay up to EUR 27.72 / day. This cost is of course tax deductible. (Note: high income, not high net worth: there is a minimum of EUR 5 / day but if you can prove you have low or no income you can get an exception and the fee is lowered to EUR 1.56 / day)

I was just in a state kindengarden lately and it crawls with bugs and the walls are full of mold. Is that how you care for the children?

A private school/kindengarden is clean that you can eat from the toilet, and it has very nice interior architecture, and disciplined workers (who have went under background checks).

That's what you get for living in a banana republic... You know there are better places to live with higher standard of living, like Europe? I can guarantee you that here for both private and public schools and kindergartens, the same high standards are applied (checked and enforced of course at the expense of our hard working tax money) and that the only bugs my children eat are found in the nice play garden behind the school. The professionally trained and certified staff has a maximum of 7 children to take care of as a maximum and needs to present a clean certificate of good conduct which is more rigorous than the one you need to get every year to own a gun.

European governments spend vast amounts of money on children's health, day care and education because we need them as future tax payers and organ donors... we need fresh blood to keep the ponzi scheme running.

Anyways, no need to continue this conversation in this thread, it's getting off topic and you are obviously trying to make up numbers and facts to prove your point.

[RealBitcoin]

You can just go to http://www.gofundme.com/ and ask for a charity for whatever reason, and people will give you money.

If people were not forced to pay taxes, they would be even more generous.

Also if people didn't have the excuse of tax-sponsored welfare existing (a very inefficient system), they would not only be more generous, they would also be way more effective at reintegrating people and getting them back to some sort of productivity.

Think about it: the goal should not simply be to support people that are in trouble for whatever reason, but to try to reintegrate them into society and put them back into a place where they can be useful to others and/or productive within the economy. The state-sponsored programs are clearly not very good at that and I suspect that more local initiatives (which are now suppressed by being in unfair competition with the state programs coerced upon us) would excel at that job.

I agree with you man totally, but you dont have to convince me. You have to convince the marxists to abandon their foolish ideology.

We capitalists truly want to help people create more capital, and not to distribute it (steal it) from existing productive people.

We want all people productive, and not lazy welfare junkies.

[SolarSilver]

I agree with you man totally, but you dont have to convince me. You have to convince the marxists to abandon their foolish ideology.

We capitalists truly want to help people create more capital, and not to distribute it (steal it) from existing productive people.

We want all people productive, and not lazy welfare junkies.

bla bla more name calling but nothing to show for. You talk much but where is the beef? You claim to be a capitalist (do you run a large company with many employees and have invested in others?) that would be doing so much charity if it wasn't for the government stealing from you, right?

So how much do you spend in $USD / year on charity? Probably not much, because the government steals all your profit. Kind of the chicken and the egg. Buying a copy of the Big Issue on the subways does not count...

OK let's turn it around, so you have no money to spend on charity, but how much time do you volunteer? Do you put your money where your mouth is? Do you go around painting those moldy day care centers? Work in a soup kitchen? Give IT training to homeless? Help organize refugee centers for Syrians crossing the border?

Or is it academic capitalism your practise?

[killerjoegreece]

wow that a  big hit and run the banks made on cyprus.

[SolarSilver]

But yea things are interlinked, you dont even realize how hazardous the big taxes are.

I live in a country with over 60% income tax and 21% VAT, that leaves me 19% of what is earned to spend. Yes, I realize more than you how hazardous big taxes are.

Oops i forgot that you want everybody to be equal, so the nuclear physicist should work in a sweatshop communist slave factory together with the 70 IQ people too? Is that your communist utopia?

I don't want everybody to be equal. I don't believe in communism, where did you get that idea? Are you throwing around random terms to do some name calling? Don't confuse communism and socialism... Are you one of those people who thinks the C in CCCP stood for Commi? (Coциaлиcтичecкиx stands for socialist... )

I work for a large organisation founded in 1863 in Geneva and they deploy people in their specific field of expertise, if you can manage a team of 60 people to take on a large disaster at an event with 70k people, you will not be running around with a stretcher. You will get a vest with 4 bars on your shoulders and a radio. Why would somebody with the skills of a nuclear physicist be peeling potatoes?

I don't believe in any kind of utopia, but I do believe in a just society where everybody contributes according to their means (so fair taxes and less waste)

Everybody should be equal right. And yes put the 70 IQ morons to be bootlicker nepotist bureocrat/politicians that can barely manage anything to manage the country , instead of profit-oriented good manager skill attributed entrepreneurs.

Sigh... and you wonder why people don't take your rants seriously..

Where are the days of Atlas in 2011 on Bitcointalk?