TwitchySeal (OP)
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September 13, 2016, 06:05:18 PM
Last edit: December 28, 2017, 04:40:41 PM by TwitchySeal Merited by actmyname (5), Lutpin (5) |
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Betcoin has recently closed their thread and opened a new self-moderated thread. This thread will serve as a place to discuss Betcoin.ag without being censored by the owners. managment. CENSORED POSTS: [not up to date, missing many posts]Submit anything Betcoin has deleted from any of their threads on this forum or their own. |
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game-protect
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September 13, 2016, 06:40:06 PM |
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Betcoin.ag Scam!The Betcoin Casino Terms of Service https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoin-casino-terms-service are anyway not valid, because the contract partners and applicable jurisdiction is missing. Betcoin.ag Poker Terms of Service (TOS) BetcoinPoker.com advises You to read all of these documents carefully as each forms part of the legally binding agreement between You and BetcoinPoker.com -> It is juridical not possible to have a legally binding agreement with a domain name! Legally binding agreements are only possible between legal entities or private persons. The “Terms of Service” does also neither state the name of the operator nor a gambling license (if any exist), nothing! -> False and misleading statements are the criminal offense of fraud! Fraud Act 20162 Fraud by false representation(1) A person is in breach of this section if he— (a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and (b) intends, by making the representation— (i) to make a gain for himself or another, or (ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss. (2) A representation is false if— (a) it is untrue or misleading, and (b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading. (3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of— (a) the person making the representation, or (b) any other person. (4) A representation may be express or implied. (5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention). Betcoin.ag governed in Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere?25. GOVERNING LAW
These Agreements shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong. You irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao in The Netherlands Antilles for the settlement of any dispute or matters arising out of or concerning these Agreements or their enforceability. Based on what shall the alleged agreements with Betcoin.ag be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong or Curacao? How could “These Agreements” be governed and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, while online gambling is not allowed in Hong Kong? Does this make sense? If the Betcoin.ag operation shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of Hong Kong, why do you need to irrevocably agree to submit to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of Curacao?  Wait, Betcoin.ag scam Casino Terms of Service (TOS) The Agreement and any matters relating hereto shall be governed by, and construed in accordance with the laws of Costa Rica. Each party irrevocably agrees that the relevant courts of Costa Rica shall have exclusive jurisdiction in relation to any claim, dispute or difference between them concerning the Agreement and any matter arising hereunder. 1, 2 or 3, you have to decide, 3 fields are free! So where is it now? Hong Kong or Curacao or Costa Rica or nowhere? Who is the operator of Betcoin.ag? Why is the name not stated on their website? Do you feel comfortable to send your Bitcoins to something while you do not know who the operator is? Here is a guy who won a huge Jackpot, but of course did not receive it: BetSoft Non-Payment of Jackpot
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TwitchySeal (OP)
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September 13, 2016, 08:18:50 PM |
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Well I've had two posts deleted from their thread so far. One was a link to this thread, the other: A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by the starter of a self-moderated topic. There are no rules of self-moderation, so this deletion cannot be appealed. Do not continue posting in this topic if the topic-starter has requested that you leave. You can create a new topic if you are unsatisfied with this one. If the topic-starter is scamming, post about it in Scam Accusations. Hi, I think you should clarify what you consider spam and provide guidelines so players know what is ok and not ok to post. Many of your great players questions are ignored because you choose to ignore them. Sometimes they just choose to accept that their question was ignored, other times they ask the question again. And again. And again. Thinking that maybe they will eventually receive an answer. Do you consider this post spam? (Even if so, please don't write of this post as spam, it's a legitimate question about spam )  |
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arcanaaerobics
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September 13, 2016, 08:32:40 PM |
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Well they already have a big thread of scam acusation, don't know why people still putting money in there...
It's great to see a topic like that, I'll be watching.
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DarkDays
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September 13, 2016, 11:22:55 PM
Last edit: September 13, 2016, 11:39:50 PM by DarkDays |
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IMO the first post should be edited to include a list of unanswered questions/questionable practices/outright thievery by Betcoin. That way, unsuspecting victims customers can quickly look at the questionable practices and unanswered questions and ask themselves if they are comfortable putting their money on a site that conducts business in the way that Betcoin does. I also think it's appropriate to include Xiao's rakeback business' unanswered questions and questionable practices since there's now zero doubt that he works directly for Betcoin. I'll begin compiling the list but wanted to get it out there now so that as little time as possible can go by with them able to let their scam flag fly without the other side of the story being presented to prospective victims valued customers. Edit: Here's a partial list I was able to type up in a few minutes using Twitchy's Scam Accusation thread as a guideline. Please add to it/revise it/add relevant links. Once we've got a completed list I think it should be added to the OP, posted in the Betcoin Shill moderated thread (to give them a chance to respond/correct the record), and PM'ed to Betcoin representatives to ensure that we attempted to handle these unresolved issues in the most fair, unbiased, and reasonable manner. UNANSWERED QUESTIONS: What happened to all of the money (~12btc) that was collected as part of the 'Bad Beat Jackpot' between December 2013 and August 2015 that never got added to the BBJ? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg13028300#msg13028300Why did you overrake pots between October 2015 and December 2015? Why did you not repay the overraked amounts, instead asking users to 'gamble' to see if they would have additional money stolen from them? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg13490869#msg13490869https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg14087000#msg14087000https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg14104300#msg14104300How did Betcoin player's personal data get compromised in January 2016, leading to constant phishing emails sent to all players WITH their corresponding Betcoin usernames attached? What other personal data got compromised? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg14028232#msg14028232Why did you not go to bat for Jason when he won a jackpot on one of your slots and wasn't paid? Why did you take money from his account to fund a "thank you freeroll" that never ran? Why have you never answered any of his many questions that stemmed from the incident regarding how you handled the situation? QUESTIONABLE PRACTICES: Increasing the rake site-wide with no announcment, including uncapped rake on HU games. https://embed.gyazo.com/ad195a51fc39e7a652ac2eaecfe998ef.pngLying about their "parent company(s)" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg13114593#msg13114593Paying for positive reviews and fabricated claims against other users. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1322261.msg13937370#msg13937370 |
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TwitchySeal (OP)
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September 14, 2016, 12:10:02 AM |
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Updated op. Far from complete obviously, but it's a start.
Any input appreciated.
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StratisKing
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September 14, 2016, 06:13:00 AM |
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"Why did you overrake pots between October 2015 and December 2015?“
Do they adjust the original rakeback now? Or they only overraked during those 3 months?
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TwitchySeal (OP)
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September 14, 2016, 06:50:29 AM |
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"Why did you overrake pots between October 2015 and December 2015?“
Do they adjust the original rakeback now? Or they only overraked during those 3 months?
They started over-raking on Oct 31/Nov1 2015. A few players posted about it on betcoins forum the first or second week of Nov. I didn't find out about it until weeks later and then called them out and figured out the issue in this post Around the first week of December, they made a weird statement: https://www.betcoin.ag/ring-game-rake-testers-needed#comment-46561 (<----Note: Heavy censorship in that thread) "The rake is actually programmed correctly in the system with the proper cap... " Then they increased the rake without any notice other than a post on their forum saying "rakes increased". (The biggest change was HU Cash games had no cap anymore) From December to March they ignored players asking about refunds for the over charge from Nov-Dec for the most part. Occasionally they would lie though. Then on March 16th they made this announcement: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=386266.msg14087000#msg14087000"Betcoin Poker Return of Overcharged Rake or Daily Coin Ticket" In the end they rewarded the people who are active in the forums and any mid-highstakes player who didn't keep up got screwed out of a lot of money. More relevant info and mr "BetcoinPokerRakeBack.com" s thoughts on the situation before Betcoin (sort of) admitted guilt The reason Betcoin is not refunding people is because there is basically nothing to refund. A lot of people were getting 100%+ rakeback so the higher the rake the more they gained. You have to consider the amount paid back in VIP RB, 100% bonuses, 100% RB prop player programs, affiliate RB, tablestarter RB etc, all of which Twitchy failed to consider in his calculations. Ok, show me your calculations then, I've asked you for them many times. I doubt you or Betcoin has even bothered to calculate anything. I had already admitted that Betcoin made a mistake due to their inexperience in poker room management (to their credit they are growing exponentially wiser as time goes on). The reason Betcoin is not refunding people is because there is basically nothing to refund. A lot of people were getting 100%+ rakeback so the higher the rake the more they gained.
This is far from reality. Xiaoxiao has continually made derceptive comments like this and then refused to defend them in any way. Betcoin has a table starter promotion offering 100% rakeback. At MOST 2 players from any table are eligible, because of the requirements - there are often going to be 0 or 1 players receiving it. Xiao has refused to comment on the fact that heads up cash tables are not eligible for this promotion and Betcoin was taking up to 4 extra mbtc every time a hand went to the flop. At the mid to high stakes, I estimate Betcoin was taking around 280 mbtc per hour from 10/31 - 12/9. (Easily 100+ hands per hour, seeing 70% of flops = 280 chips/hr per table in over charged rake) I've proven the rake was collected wrong during this 5+ week period, this is Xiaos comment which he refuses to elaborate on: Regarding everything else you've said. No, I totally disagree with your claims. The rake did go higher briefly but was corrected.
A small percentage of players were effected negatively but it's so minute that it's barely noticeable which is why those people aren't complaining or don't care.
This is just not true. Many players were unaware they were stolen from, and recently have been asking for a refund. There have been talks of a boycott recently by a group of players. Here is an example of Betcoin handled one of the highest volume regulars on the site. (read from bottom to top)  Dooglus summed up a great point on Betcoins forum by asking this question. Rather than responding to him, Betcoin deleted it.  The only thing I agree with is the fact that Betcoin probably didn't do this on purpose. Nearly every issue I've brought up has been a result of their incompetence. If they would simply admit their mistakes, and fix them - this wouldn't be what it is today. |
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DarkDays
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September 14, 2016, 07:56:44 PM |
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Why was this moved to "Scam Accusations"? Is there a way to have an honest discussion with a moderator to explain why allowing censored topics in the "gambling" forum and moving uncensored discussions off of the forum a horrible idea? Anyone with half a brain can see what this is going to lead to.
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TwitchySeal (OP)
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September 15, 2016, 03:05:29 AM |
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Why was this moved to "Scam Accusations"? Is there a way to have an honest discussion with a moderator to explain why allowing censored topics in the "gambling" forum and moving uncensored discussions off of the forum a horrible idea? Anyone with half a brain can see what this is going to lead to.
fixed (i hope) |
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DarkDays
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September 15, 2016, 04:49:28 AM |
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Why was this moved to "Scam Accusations"? Is there a way to have an honest discussion with a moderator to explain why allowing censored topics in the "gambling" forum and moving uncensored discussions off of the forum a horrible idea? Anyone with half a brain can see what this is going to lead to.
fixed (i hope) Looks fixed, I'm seeing it in the 'Gambling' section, thanks for working on that. |
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olubams
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September 15, 2016, 09:23:28 AM |
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This is serious coming from a popular site on this platform is very discouraging and bad... I think the awareness should be more than this for people to be aware of the activities going on there... In my opinion if you're running a public facility then you should develop a thick skin and not censor post to your taste...
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DarkDays
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September 15, 2016, 09:46:33 AM |
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This is serious coming from a popular site on this platform is very discouraging and bad... I think the awareness should be more than this for people to be aware of the activities going on there... In my opinion if you're running a public facility then you should develop a thick skin and not censor post to your taste...
The problem is their blatant disregard for honesty. They literally treat their paying customers like they are the dumbest people on the planet. If it was a situation where their thread was being inundated by legit trolls or spam, I'd understand. But every single interaction would go like this: Betcoin steals money Customers say "hey why did you steal that money" Betcoin doesn't say anything Customers say "no seriously you stole a bunch of money, here's a ton of proof...what is going on" Betcoin doesn't say anything (at one point when they were caught in a bunch of lies and Dooglus was getting on their case they left the forum completely for a couple of months) Customers say "wow that's really messed up that you would steal our money and then not even pretend to have an excuse" Betcoin: Bumps months-old promos and acts like nothing happened This type of exchange has happened so many times in the last year+ that it's honestly starting to look like a long-con type of situation. That's why prospective depositors need to educate themselves and exercise caution. Especially since they've now progressed from ignoring people to censoring people. I've seen this many times in the poker industry, and it always ends the same way. Not good. |
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game-protect
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September 19, 2016, 01:37:13 PM
Last edit: February 02, 2017, 06:40:44 PM by game-protect |
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ghost15
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we are still here and we will stay forever.
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September 19, 2016, 11:41:45 PM |
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I am very happy to find this thread where I can talk freely about my experience in their site; so here is my story with these S O B of betcoin.ag: all was started about six month ago when i decided to start playing online and my misfortune conduct me to this fucking casino and deposit over 2BTC, everything was going well (provided I deposits money). one day frequenting their stupid chat i had a discussion withe some member that has degenerated, and they asked the staff to banned me from the site and that's what he have done. i don't like the fact that i was banned because of some player that have the same rank as me but who have experience in licking balls requested it, and open a new account to complete my discussion but each time they remove it, i opened about 10 account but still not terminate my discussion with him; the day after with a new account betcoinandrew asked me to stop creating alt account and reactivate my oldest one(with a bronzIII VIP) and like an idiot I accept that but I rarely visited their casino since that day. 2 days ago i deposited a small amount and asked for my new depositor freeroll ticket but still no response, and today contacted him in the live support and the surprise: Live Support Ask us anything Chat started ghost15 Ticket #65227 Ticket #65227 Betcoin Danny joined the chat Betcoin Danny Hello you are not eligible to play in that freeroll due to multiple accounts Betcoin Danny left the chat ghost15 multiple account  ?? cant i know what is my alt account here? Betcoin Danny joined the chat Betcoin Danny correct should I tell you all accounts this account will be terminated ghost15 yes i'm interested because i was never had an alt account Betcoin Danny I do not like people who lie your computer parameters are detected by the system ghost15 it's bad to accuse people ok it's not a problem i have lost a silver vip level in you site it's will not be a problem to lose this one |
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DarkDays
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September 20, 2016, 12:12:01 AM |
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I am very happy to find this thread where I can talk freely about my experience in their site; so here is my story with these S O B of betcoin.ag: all was started about six month ago when i decided to start playing online and my misfortune conduct me to this fucking casino and deposit over 2BTC, everything was going well (provided I deposits money). one day frequenting their stupid chat i had a discussion withe some member that has degenerated, and they asked the staff to banned me from the site and that's what he have done. i don't like the fact that i was banned because of some player that have the same rank as me but who have experience in licking balls requested it, and open a new account to complete my discussion but each time they remove it, i opened about 10 account but still not terminate my discussion with him; the day after with a new account betcoinandrew asked me to stop creating alt account and reactivate my oldest one(with a bronzIII VIP) and like an idiot I accept that but I rarely visited their casino since that day. 2 days ago i deposited a small amount and asked for my new depositor freeroll ticket but still no response, and today contacted him in the live support and the surprise: Live Support Ask us anything Chat started ghost15 Ticket #65227 Ticket #65227 Betcoin Danny joined the chat Betcoin Danny Hello you are not eligible to play in that freeroll due to multiple accounts Betcoin Danny left the chat ghost15 multiple account ?? cant i know what is my alt account here? Betcoin Danny joined the chat Betcoin Danny correct should I tell you all accounts this account will be terminated ghost15 yes i'm interested because i was never had an alt account Betcoin Danny I do not like people who lie your computer parameters are detected by the system ghost15 it's bad to accuse people ok it's not a problem i have lost a silver vip level in you site it's will not be a problem to lose this one This is very unclear. You say you opened 10 accounts and then say that you didn't open any other accounts. |
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newIndia
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September 20, 2016, 12:16:44 AM |
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This is serious coming from a popular site on this platform is very discouraging and bad... I think the awareness should be more than this for people to be aware of the activities going on there... In my opinion if you're running a public facility then you should develop a thick skin and not censor post to your taste...
I'm kinda out of loop to this. I thought, they are a big casino. What is the exact allegation against Betcoin.ag? |
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ghost15
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we are still here and we will stay forever.
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September 20, 2016, 12:33:30 AM |
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snip
This is very unclear. You say you opened 10 accounts and then say that you didn't open any other accounts. it's true I thought it was an old story, after that betcoinandrew requested me to stop creating alt account and reactivate my old one I thought my historic has been deleted but that was not the case, If I knew this, I never go back to their casino and that's what I'll do. |
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DarkDays
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September 20, 2016, 03:05:46 AM |
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This is serious coming from a popular site on this platform is very discouraging and bad... I think the awareness should be more than this for people to be aware of the activities going on there... In my opinion if you're running a public facility then you should develop a thick skin and not censor post to your taste...
I'm kinda out of loop to this. I thought, they are a big casino. What is the exact allegation against Betcoin.ag? Read the OP. Everything is explained in full with links. |
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Beefheart
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September 20, 2016, 04:23:28 AM |
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logged in for the first time in a while... what happened to the WPN sit-n-go tourneys? All I see are the mBTC, and they NEVER run... Any info is appreciated
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