DIY PCB with AVALON: "The Quarter Stick" - Needs Help!

[daemondazz]

I looked at a few things PCI-e too hard, and a few other ideas.

Why was PCIe too hard? The electronic side or physical side?

[BkkCoins]

I just wonder what is going to be in the Avalon Doc's a PCB design, does anyone know what electronic CAD they use already?

If it's the same as last year it'll be Altium Designer. To get a rough idea of what to expect have a look at the Icarus github project. Not saying it'll be the same but this is the closest we have right now. I suspect that the Avalon chip design grew out of the work done for the fpga design. It had a serial interface chaining two chips together sharing the nonce range.

[aeronautical]

I looked at a few things PCI-e too hard, and a few other ideas.

Why was PCIe too hard? The electronic side or physical side?

Yes PCI-e under the conditions looks like a pain in the arse and then again you have to have a big box turned on, i thought that it would be neat to run a cluster off usb with external supply
Ok in short you got to find a screw driver, pull a box apart, oh shit goes on... USB just plug it in 5 10 whatever, I kinda think the polling on usb makes sense
too, i got some stuff my head but not all, shoot me down if I'm wrong i don't mind also think best not to redesign if Avalon is usb just do what they do, drivers etc etc....

What are they using not ethernet...? USB

[BkkCoins]

I looked at a few things PCI-e too hard, and a few other ideas.

Why was PCIe too hard? The electronic side or physical side?

Yes PCI-e under the conditions looks like a pain in the arse and then again you have to have a big box turned on, i thought that it would be neat to run a cluster off usb with external supply
Ok in short you got to find a screw driver, pull a box apart, oh shit goes on... USB just plug it in 5 10 whatever, I kinda think the polling on usb makes sense
too, i got some stuff my head but not all, shoot me down if I'm wrong i don't mind also think best not to redesign if Avalon is usb just do what they do, drivers etc etc....

What are they using not ethernet...? USB

They use a LAN router board, with modified firmware, to provide a USB host, then have a simple FTDI serial-USB chip interface to an FPGA to interface serial to each 10 chip sub-unit. Presumably the FPGA is just a data selector/router for the 8 sub units. This, from just looking at photos. The router board has the cgminer software in it's firmware. It talks serial via USB to the modules. The cgminer driver for this is already on github for the Avalon. I had a look at it and saw the data format it sends out is simply a long stream ready to shift into each chip for each work unit.

[aeronautical]

I looked at a few things PCI-e too hard, and a few other ideas.

Why was PCIe too hard? The electronic side or physical side?

Yes PCI-e under the conditions looks like a pain in the arse and then again you have to have a big box turned on, i thought that it would be neat to run a cluster off usb with external supply
Ok in short you got to find a screw driver, pull a box apart, oh shit goes on... USB just plug it in 5 10 whatever, I kinda think the polling on usb makes sense
too, i got some stuff my head but not all, shoot me down if I'm wrong i don't mind also think best not to redesign if Avalon is usb just do what they do, drivers etc etc....

What are they using not ethernet...? USB

They use a LAN router board, with modified firmware, to provide a USB host, then have a simple FTDI serial-USB chip interface to an FPGA to interface serial to each 10 chip sub-unit. Presumably the FPGA is just a data selector/router for the 8 sub units. This, from just looking at photos. The router board has the cgminer software in it's firmware. It talks serial via USB to the modules. The cgminer driver for this is already on github for the Avalon. I had a look at it and saw the data format it sends out is simply a long stream ready to shift into each chip for each work unit.

"They use a LAN router board, with modified firmware" Why do you think they are doing this why not just run (ASIC's x lots > FPGA/multiplexer > FTDI) to Host

[BkkCoins]

"They use a LAN router board, with modified firmware" Why do you think they are doing this why not just run (ASIC's x lots > FPGA/multiplexer > FTDI) to Host

Why? Because it's in the photos and described on the web site that way. I didn't just make it up.
Look at the Avalon photos - see that little board hanging down between modules and the case. See the info on TP-Link router in section "User Guide", and "TP-LINK TL-WR703N".

All on this page, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#Chip_Specification

If you want to bypass the router then I'm sure you can take it out and attach direct to controller from a PC and run cgminer on the PC. That should work but the TP-Link lets it act as a standalone unit without PC.

[daemondazz]

If you want to bypass the router then I'm sure you can take it out and attach direct to controller from a PC and run cgminer on the PC. That should work but the TP-Link lets it act as a standalone unit without PC.

Exactly, their unit is a standalone box - connect it to your network using wifi or an ethernet cable and it's good to go.

I'm looking at building a PCIe 1x board with 8 or 10 chips, depending on power usage, and the ability to daisy chain multiple cards together, so you only need a single "controller" per machine.

I have a heap of PCs already running around the place that I can put 2 or 3 cards into and don't need worry about an external box, power, etc. I do understand that other people's needs might be different.

I'd suggest we come up with a generalised schematic and then perhaps a couple of different PCB designs based on that.

[BkkCoins]

If you want to bypass the router then I'm sure you can take it out and attach direct to controller from a PC and run cgminer on the PC. That should work but the TP-Link lets it act as a standalone unit without PC.

Exactly, their unit is a standalone box - connect it to your network using wifi or an ethernet cable and it's good to go.

I'm looking at building a PCIe 1x board with 8 or 10 chips, depending on power usage, and the ability to daisy chain multiple cards together, so you only need a single "controller" per machine.

I have a heap of PCs already running around the place that I can put 2 or 3 cards into and don't need worry about an external box, power, etc. I do understand that other people's needs might be different.

I'd suggest we come up with a generalised schematic and then perhaps a couple of different PCB designs based on that.

This isn't bad idea at all. There are so many miners with GPUs who could simply swap a GPU for an equivalent ASIC card. Given a GPU draws 130W+ you should be safe with using that much power on a card as a drop in replacement. You would be limited mostly by board space as you can probably run 80 without issues. This could be a simple design but I don't know how complicated x1 PCIe would be. There is probably a ready made x1 controller chip you could use cheaply. With that your entire design could be simplified to power regulation, clock gen and software driver. I'm going to look at what PCIe controllers may be out there.

[aeronautical]

"They use a LAN router board, with modified firmware" Why do you think they are doing this why not just run (ASIC's x lots > FPGA/multiplexer > FTDI) to Host

Why? Because it's in the photos and described on the web site that way. I didn't just make it up.
Look at the Avalon photos - see that little board hanging down between modules and the case. See the info on TP-Link router in section "User Guide", and "TP-LINK TL-WR703N".

All on this page, https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Avalon#Chip_Specification

If you want to bypass the router then I'm sure you can take it out and attach direct to controller from a PC and run cgminer on the PC. That should work but the TP-Link lets it act as a standalone unit without PC.

Sorry, I'm a dumb ass I've been sifting through swags of stuff and didn't notice. Your right it is a good idea and cheap.

[Dabs]

Example:

1. I order 30 chips.
2. That's 10 chips per module, or 3 modules
3. Each module is 80 EUR * 3 = 240 EUR, payable in BTC
4. Ship finished product by July. Is shipping included? Worldwide?

Ok, I think I'm going to order 30 chips. Someone please confirm if this makes sense or I got it wrong?

[BkkCoins]

I'm looking at building a PCIe 1x board with 8 or 10 chips, depending on power usage, and the ability to daisy chain multiple cards together, so you only need a single "controller" per machine.

This seems to be a well known PCIe serial controller chip that would work as interface to a heap of ASICs.  Asix MCS9901 (1 serial) or MCS9904 (4 serial). There is a reference schematic.

http://www.asix.com.tw/products.php?op=pItemdetail&PItemID=121;74;110&PLine=74

These are used in serial port cards available at Newegg for $15. I haven't located a chip price yet but worst case is buying a card and removing the chip. I'm pretty sure these chips must be under $10 each and would easily handle a board with 80 ASICs. 20 chips per serial line. As a bonus it has a PLL on board and 30 MHz clock gen. Not sure if that could be used to feed ASICs as don't know the details there yet. Maybe.

It may be wise to limit a board like this to only 40 ASICs to keep power down and have 10 chips per serial line. Smaller, cheaper PCB as well.

[turtle83]

Would it be sane to connect the avalon chips to arduino or raspberry pi(not using usb) as host?

Arduino has ports to add "shields", and the pi has gpio headers for simple IO communications....

Question is...

1) Is it doable?
2) Will it be cheaper? assuming the arduino or raspberry pi is free.
3) Is it fun? ( I know answer to this one )

I've never coded embedded systems... but id assume this is pretty simple since all the complex hashing aspects would be inside the ASIC.

I understand that we are all speculating without having specs, and my goal is not to "get rich quick" or something, just have fun.

[erk]

Would it be sane to connect the avalon chips to arduino or raspberry pi(not using usb) as host?

Arduino has ports to add "shields", and the pi has gpio headers for simple IO communications....

Question is...

1) Is it doable?
2) Will it be cheaper? assuming the arduino or raspberry pi is free.
3) Is it fun? ( I know answer to this one )

I've never coded embedded systems... but id assume this is pretty simple since all the complex hashing aspects would be inside the ASIC.

I understand that we are all speculating without having specs, and my goal is not to "get rich quick" or something, just have fun.

Are you prepared  to modify the cgminer code to work in that configuration?

[turtle83]

Are you prepared  to modify the cgminer code to work in that configuration?

yes. or maybe fresh code.
arduino would likely need fresh code from scratch.
the pi would likely need either custom driver for cgminer, or fresh code. im a lot faster in python than c.

[BkkCoins]

Are you prepared  to modify the cgminer code to work in that configuration?

yes. or maybe fresh code.
arduino would likely need fresh code from scratch.
the pi would likely need either custom driver for cgminer, or fresh code. im a lot faster in python than c.

Modifying cgminer to use a GPIO port for serial comm should be fairly straight forward. There should a linux serial driver for RasPi already. The Avalon cgminer driver simply sends the data to a serial USB device and doesn't know more than that. It should work with a serial tty device as well.

I'm not an arduino guy so know nothing about them.

[BenTuras]

Modifying cgminer to use a GPIO port for serial comm should be fairly straight forward. There should a linux serial driver for RasPi already.

The RasPi has USB connections, no need to use GPIO.

[turtle83]

Modifying cgminer to use a GPIO port for serial comm should be fairly straight forward. There should a linux serial driver for RasPi already.

The RasPi has USB connections, no need to use GPIO.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161715.msg1883115#msg1883115

For fun... reduce need for usb circuitry.... did i mention for fun?

[ektwr]

Is it possible to make a table with the final (so far) features that this project must has?
1) PCB -->dimensions, layers
2) connection type-->usb, pci-e, lan, wifi etc
3) SCH, PCB, cad programm
4) Availability
5) Estimated cost and time
6) other

[John Self]

I'm sorry to ask a stupid question (I'm a newb)

But can anyone tell me if it is currently possible to use these chips to build an DIY expansion unit for the batch 2 avalons?

[loshia]

I'm sorry to ask a stupid question (I'm a newb)

But can anyone tell me if it is currently possible to use these chips to build an DIY expansion unit for the batch 2 avalons?

Yes it is possible if you have the Avalon PCb + components Design and reliable Factory to assemble it  
It is far behind DIY but you can arrange it in way way or another