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Author Topic: First BFL ASIC!  (Read 58032 times)
jwzguy
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April 03, 2013, 03:44:19 AM
 #341

Very disappointed in Betsofbitco.in. This is a total copout. We all know they haven't shipped anything, and that the best they've done so far is cobble together a prototype that doesn't meet their advertised specs. Which is great! Congrats! But they soundly and completely lost this bet.

I had no money on the line for this, and if anything I would have taken the other side of this bet. I expected BFL to ship by now. I hope they fix their problems, build some working units, and ship soon. But they sure as hell haven't done that yet.
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April 03, 2013, 03:45:54 AM
 #342

Very disappointed in Betsofbitco.in. This is a total copout. We all know they haven't shipped anything, and that the best they've done so far is cobble together a prototype that doesn't meet their advertised specs. Which is great! Congrats! But they soundly and completely lost this bet.

I had no money on the line for this, and if anything I would have taken the other side of this bet. I expected BFL to ship by now. I hope they fix their problems, build some working units, and ship soon. But they sure as hell haven't done that yet.


Exactly.  The title of the bet is SHIPPED.  They have not shipped anything.  I too did not bet on this or any other BFL related bet.

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April 03, 2013, 04:03:47 AM
Last edit: April 03, 2013, 04:31:21 AM by ab8989
 #343

So let me try to explain the situation how I best can describe it:

BFL does not have anything resembling an actual product, but instead they have a bunch of bits and pieces laying around on a table and a half-employee-customer that does not have any desire to have that abortion of bits and pieces shipped to him. And the bits and pieces are not even working properly falling short of the 75% criteria of the advertised hashrate and overheating like mad.

Is there anything incorrect in that description of the situation? How would you compare the correctness of that to the other competing opinion that BFL has shipped a product.

Let me then speculate, but for this truly to be Luke-Jr's shipped product, both of the two following speculative assumptions must definitely be false:

1) BFL guys are still continuing to hit those bits and pieces on the table with an oscilloscope, SW debugging tools and various other lab testing equipment and they are not keeping it fully powered on hashing 24/7 in the fear it will overheat and die setting fire to the whole building before they are able to find out everything what is wrong with it.

2) Luke-Jr's unit will be swapped for a working production model that is going to be actually shipped to him as soon as they are finished and this abortion on the table will be thrown into trashcan by BFL employees either at the moment when finished products are available or when this unit dies from overheating whichever happens sooner and Luke-Jr is not going to feel sorry for 'his' unit. Maybe for the lost bitcoins, but not for 'his unit'.
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April 03, 2013, 04:18:56 AM
 #344

So let me try to explain the situation how I best can describe it:

BFL does not have anything resembling an actual product, but instead they have a bunch of bits and pieces laying around on a table and a half-employee-customer that does not have any desire to have that abortion of bits and pieces shipped to him. And the bits and pieces are not even working properly falling short of the 75% criteria of the advertised hashrate and overheating like mad.

Is there anything incorrect in that description of the situation? How would you compare the correctness of that to the other competing opinion that BFL has shipped a product.

Let me then speculate, but for this truly to be Luke-Jr's shipped product, both of the two following speculative assumptions must definitely be false:

1) BFL guys are still continuing to hit those bits and pieces on the table with an oscilloscope, SW debugging tools and various other lab testing equipment and they are not keeping it fully powered on hashing 24/7 in the fear it will overheat and die setting fire to the whole building before they are able to find out everything what is wrong with it.

2) Luke-Jr's unit will be swapped for a working production model that is going to be actually shipped to him as soon as they are finished as this abortion on the table will be thrown into trashcan by BFL employees either at the moment when finished products are available or when this unit dies from overheating whichever happens sooner and Luke-Jr is not going to feel sorry for 'his' unit. Maybe for the lost bitcoins, but not for 'his unit'.


Sounds about right.  

You missed to touch on the part where betsofbitco.in turned out to be a crappy bet website, now being abandoned by a greater part of the bitcointalk community.

Is BitBet.us the next alternative?

---

This was a pretty interesting bet at the end.  Defiantly got my winnings worth.
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April 03, 2013, 04:23:35 AM
Last edit: April 03, 2013, 04:40:45 AM by Phinnaeus Gage
 #345

We have carefully examined both sides of the argument. First of all, on our site title is definitely part of the agreement. We do not count the current status as BFL "shipping" the products, therefore other bets are still open. On the other hand the conditions in the description are met. Unfortunately the statement description, as it is written, can be interpreted as complementary conditions to shipping for more clear evidence or the definition of shipping. As much as we would like to settle the bet on one side (as we would earn a significant commission) we do not think that the situation is unambiguous under these circumstances which would be very hard to foresee at the time of statement initiation. As we have been doing before, we will continue to call a draw if there is a such an ambiguity. All the bets will be refunded without any commission.

You realize that every contentious bet is going to be "ambiguous" now, right?  Any time someone is on the wrong side, they're going to claim that the rules weren't clear and try and get a refund.

I have to agree with this post. I wish no ills toward BoB, but Bryan and others, along with mine, have shown one way or another that the bet is true. If nothing else, the post was made after midnight on April 1, 2013, as repeated a couple posts above the one I'm quoting. If Luke was so concerned about the bit, why didn't he post prior to midnight EST?

I'm afraid that tbd has a valid point about all future and ongoing bets on BoB.

Again, I have no ills toward BoB or Luke.

~Bruno K~

EDIT: @Luke: Still no ills, but leaning toward the below. If I lean further or change my stance, I'll post such. Later, bud.

Quote
To conclude, Luke-jr is a douche-bag who tried to manipulate a wager, package a preshipping unit as the real deal, NEVER TOOK POSSESSION of it in the first place, lost all credibility on this forum (at least by me), and is still trying to defend his position. Really, you should really think about obtaining a priest position in the catholic community near you, at least then everyone would know you're a slimeball before you got a chance to open your mouth.

(apologies for not including the author of quote above, but it's on this thread page 16)

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April 03, 2013, 04:24:58 AM
 #346

It is very clear that the conditions are not met --

This bet concerns the 3 Butterfly Labs Bitforce SC products announced here:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=87934.msg966886#msg966886

That message refers to a press release here:
http://news.yahoo.com/butterfly-labs-announces-next-generation-asic-lineup-054626776.html

Containing:
"2)    BitForce SC Single: a standalone unit providing roughly 40 GH/s, priced at $1,299"

The second condition of the bet:
• The device must achieve at least 75% of its advertised hashrate.


40 * .75 = 30.  That rate was not met.





In my opinion this makes it pretty clear. The bet was about 3 devices and not about fourth.

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April 03, 2013, 04:27:37 AM
 #347

I'd refuse to use that service considering the shaky and dubious evidence to support that it was even SHIPPED! It is not in the consumers hand what gives. Obviously there is some conflict of interest here. Sad to see people WELCH on a bet like this and goes to the ethics of Betsofbitco.in., Luke and BFL. Sad indeed.


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April 03, 2013, 04:30:57 AM
 #348

Alright, I'll chime in as someone who bet 15BTC on 'true', i.e. the BFL-will-fuck-up position. Maybe I'm the only guy on the bet-is-true side to think that BoB made an acceptable call here, but so be it. No, BFL didn't win the bet, but they provided juuuuust enough wiggle room to provide 18+ pages of shouting.

I suggest we all give BoB a break here. The real ire should be reserved for Josh, the worst and slimiest customer relations guy in recorded history, and Luke, who is a whore. If BoB screwed up anywhere it was in not demanding a more precisely worded bet.

If I've said anything amusing and/or informative and you're feeling generous:
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April 03, 2013, 04:35:55 AM
 #349

Let me then speculate, but for this truly to be Luke-Jr's shipped product, both of the two following speculative assumptions must definitely be false:

1) BFL guys are still continuing to hit those bits and pieces on the table with an oscilloscope, SW debugging tools and various other lab testing equipment and they are not keeping it fully powered on hashing 24/7 in the fear it will overheat and die setting fire to the whole building before they are able to find out everything what is wrong with it.
I can confirm this is false. I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

2) Luke-Jr's unit will be swapped for a working production model that is going to be actually shipped to him as soon as they are finished as this abortion on the table will be thrown into trashcan by BFL employees either at the moment when finished products are available or when this unit dies from overheating whichever happens sooner and Luke-Jr is not going to feel sorry for 'his' unit. Maybe for the lost bitcoins, but not for 'his unit'.
I have no qualms with making use of the warranty, but once BFL has the rest of my order ready I certainly intend this one to be shipped along with it. In the meantime, I prefer to keep it right where it is until at least the next difficulty adjustment. Wink

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April 03, 2013, 04:36:20 AM
Last edit: April 03, 2013, 04:46:47 AM by Bicknellski
 #350

I think there is NO wiggle room whatsoever. Did the product leave the facility and arrive at the users location? Come on we all know that they are playing semantics so they don't have to pay... that is welching plain and simple. This is clearly a sign of a LACK of INTEGRITY. The more we see of these people playing fast and loose with the 'truth' as they see it the more it should put people in the mindset they are not to be trusted.

I have yet to see anything from BFL at this point that warrants the communities trust, in fact at almost every turn including this one they are proving to be untrustworthy and morally bankrupt. Reputations are made by the decisions you make particularly those that are clearly visible to the general public.

If you didn't have a reason to cancel your order and look for an alternative to BFL then this might be time. To what lengths will BFL go to "Win" or "Nullify" their OBLIGATIONS?

Time to ignore LukeJr and others involved in this welched bet they have proven they are unworthy of my time.


Quote
welching  present participle of welsh
Verb
Fail to honor (a debt or obligation incurred through a promise or agreement).

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April 03, 2013, 04:38:30 AM
 #351

Can you, Luke-Jr, show the calculation how you get the result that the observed realized hashrate fulfills the 75% criteria. I see you have shown to have the opinion that there are absolutely no arguments for the 'BFL has failed' position
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April 03, 2013, 04:40:16 AM
 #352

Can you, Luke-Jr, show the calculation how you get the result that the observed realized hashrate fulfills the 75% criteria. I see you have shown to have the opinion that there are absolutely no arguments for the 'BFL has failed' position
Little Single was advertised as 30 Gh/s. 75% of 30 is 22.5.

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April 03, 2013, 04:40:49 AM
 #353

1)  for those that say "you just didn't win, you didn't lose anything" you just don't understand gambling or equity.  

2) I just withdrew my refunded bet, as I'm sure all the guys that got away free betting the wrong side also did, so there will be no recourse here for those of us that rightfully won the bet and got fucked.

3)  A fee was taken from my wager!  lol betsofbitco.in, extremely classy

4)  I will start the scammer tag thread in Scam accusations.  This is inexcusable.  I also believe we need a forum ad saying not to ever wager on this site.  

5)  There is no possible way this bet could ever legitimately end in a push.  That is just amateur hour, it makes big-stakes statement betting for BTC look amateur hour, and coinjedi is a scammer.  

6)  coinjedi took 1 .jpg that Josh Zerlan snapped as accepted "hashrate" - and what was the posted hashrate again?  how the fuck is 24 > 75% of 40??  not a video declaring said hashrate?  just a pic by a BFL employee good enough?

whatever, live and learn.  Do not ever use betsofbitco.in.  

let's unleash holy hell on them IMO.

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April 03, 2013, 04:43:30 AM
 #354

So, where is the enclosure



You can't ship a product until it's fully assembled, and you can't fully assemble an electronic product until the PCB is inside an enclosure.

Is the thing in the pictures really a production enclosure or is it a mounting tray used in development / testing?


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April 03, 2013, 04:46:42 AM
 #355

I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

At what location is the device?

Buy & Hold
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April 03, 2013, 04:52:27 AM
 #356

1) The fact that BFL seems to care more about winning a bet than delivering a solid product to customers speaks volumes.

2) The way they tried to win this bet speaks volumes about the dishonest way they conduct their business. It is borderline scammy.

I'm sorry, but as far as BFL customers are concerned this is a FAIL on two counts. Regardless if BFL wins this silly bet or not. Get a clue folks and set your priorities straight.

This, a thousand times this. While I've long thought Josh was an abrasive loudmouthed tit, I never realised he's quite as slimy as this. And Luke... I had him pegged as an 'upstanding member of the community', and now I see him stooping to this stunt. Yuck. And in the last few hours he's returned to the thread to show how he's not yet finished sucking BFL's cock.

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April 03, 2013, 04:58:48 AM
 #357

1)  lukejr shows extremely poor character shilling for BFL on the matter of this wager

2)  Scam Accusation started:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=165500.0  please pile in, coinjedi needs a scammer tag and betsofbitco.in must be lit up.   

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April 03, 2013, 05:02:02 AM
 #358

Wow, this is just crazy.  Is betsofbitco.in just a website created by a teenager or something?  How could they possibly be this inept?

Not only did they come to a hare-brained conclusion, but they didn't even bother to create a summary of their decision.  As an escrow service addressing a dispute, shouldn't they provide a point-by-point writeup of the correspondence they received, the arguments they considered and the reasoning behind the judgements they made?

This site was never a serious escrow service.  It's just some clown who knows how to do a little coding but knows nothing about being an escrow or an arbitrator.

Both betsofbitco.in and Luke Jr. deserve scammer tags in my opinion.  Betsofbitco.in is masquerading as an escrow service but they don't have the slightest clue what they are doing.  They are not willing or able to make decisions based upon facts or logic, they are not willing to declare a losing side of a bet and they provide no explanation whatsoever to go with their insane rulings.  Luke Jr.  has not only been evasive in this thread, but he's also gone out of his way to deceive.

This is all very disgusting to see.
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April 03, 2013, 05:03:40 AM
 #359

It says enough when all you have is ad hominem and no logical arguments.

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April 03, 2013, 05:04:34 AM
 #360

I have it hashing away 24/7 except for when I stop/restart/debug BFGMiner to try to optimize it better.

At what location is the device?

"Hashing away 24/7" in fairytale land and not in his possession. Idiotic that he contradicted himself there.
Luke is in with BFL and is another puppet in the mix of the on going shitpile of bs BFL creates on a daily basis. More like monthly unless your about to add another preorder to the mix.
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