[NEW CURRENCY] Maria 2.0 was banned, here is her proof. The birth of Bytecoin!

[ProfMac]

Well he has a right. Our blockchains will just fight. Depending on how many people join me. This is democracy and Bitcoin thought of everything. If he isn't putting money where his mouth is and mining, he will lose.

Will the existing block chain stay valid?
Are the branches of the fork exclusive?

[bitpop]

If you mean do the existing transactions change? No nothing changes..

[ProfMac]

ProfMac,

Correct. The evidence suggests that someone with an ASIC/serverfarm has kicked the difficulty up at least twice, once on 4-08 at block 14112, where diff jumped from 4096.032 to 16384.25, and again on 5-06 at block 18144 where diff jumped from 8948.631 to it's present 35794.675.

What this new group proposes to do by forking the blockchain is to form a pool that gives them the advantage in mining and leaves the rest of us with our fly unzipped and nowhere to go.

Thanks for the lead.

At block 16128, on 2013-05-03  22:20:02, a new difficulty of 8,196 was begun.
1 day later, at block 17108   2013-05-04 22:20:08
That is 980 blocks / day, or about 4X what it should be.

In the 30 days or so since block 16128, there should be 7,200 blocks mined to bring us to about block 23,328.
The blockchain is behind 4,997 blocks.

I can't get a genrate from #bitcoin-otc right now.

----
There are two things I don't know:
a.  How fast can you generate blocks with 1.2 GH/s at difficulty 8,196
b.  Can you spoof the time to the miner.

The thing you can do if there is a rogue and hostile ASIC is to simply generate a block with a timestamp each 10 minutes, starting with
block 16129, on 2013-05-03  22:30:00.  Include all the transactions that are valid on your fork, and simply invalidate all of the pirates mined blocks.  Keep the blocks paced at the 10 minute rate, and when you get to 18,332 you have done a takeover.  The date will be far in the past, and some transactions will appear to be in the future to the block-chain.

Then, you mine a block for each transaction that needs to be confirmed.

When you are caught up, the rate is low and karma is restored.

[Walter Rothbard]

Asic users will continue to attack bytecoin and no one will be mining bytecoin.

Will ASIC users not be able to mine Bytecoin?

[Walter Rothbard]

I will be sticking with original Bytecoin and will not go to any forks of the code; the only code changes I will accept are updates from the main Bitcoin source.

Do you mine?

I will be mining at some point in the future.  I don't have all the hardware I need yet.

[Walter Rothbard]

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in.  What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork?  Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

[ProfMac]

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in.  What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork?  Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

I asked about merged mining on #bitcoin-dev yesterday.

They provided this link to help explain merged mining: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/273/how-does-merged-mining-work

They say that both merged mining implementations, p2pool and another, have some problems.
They say that merged mining does provide a way to bring lots of hashpower to a new coin.
They have the view that alt-coins only have legitimacy in the context of expanding bitcoin.
They are deeply suspicious of most alt-coins as a scam to get noobs to buy snake oil.

[Walter Rothbard]

If there is merged mining support in the main Bitcoin source that is not in Bytecoin I am in favor of pulling that in.  What I am not in favor of is any code changes that make Bytecoin distinguised from Bitcoin other than the basic name, cosmetic, and new blockchain changes.

Can somebody explain to me in layman's terms why merged mining needs a blockchain fork?  Will mining Bytecoin alone be possible on the new fork?

I asked about merged mining on #bitcoin-dev yesterday.

They provided this link to help explain merged mining: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/273/how-does-merged-mining-work

They say that both merged mining implementations, p2pool and another, have some problems.
They say that merged mining does provide a way to bring lots of hashpower to a new coin.
They have the view that alt-coins only have legitimacy in the context of expanding bitcoin.
They are deeply suspicious of most alt-coins as a scam to get noobs to buy snake oil.

I understand the basics of how merged mining works.  The detail I am missing is what has to change in the code to make merged mining possible, and why does that preclude continuing with the existing block chain?

[jaywaka2713]

I understand the basics of how merged mining works.  The detail I am missing is what has to change in the code to make merged mining possible, and why does that preclude continuing with the existing block chain?

In order to change the way the code works, the blockchain needs to be forked. It seems you don't know entirely what the purpose of the blockchain is. Not only is the blockchain a ledger, but it is also a reflection of the bytecoin daemon that we all run (bytecoind). When we change bytecoind, we no longer comply to the set of instructions and rules that the current blockchain is on, so when we mine our own blocks, they are mined with new code in a new bytecoind, and since other people don't have that bytecoind, they will continue along with their own blockchain. Until most of the network switches over, there would be two different blockchains. Do you understand?

Tl;dr to change the coin, we need to change our software (bytecoind file specifically), which would change the blockchain.

[Walter Rothbard]

I understand the basics of how merged mining works.  The detail I am missing is what has to change in the code to make merged mining possible, and why does that preclude continuing with the existing block chain?

In order to change the way the code works, the blockchain needs to be forked. It seems you don't know entirely what the purpose of the blockchain is. Not only is the blockchain a ledger, but it is also a reflection of the bytecoin daemon that we all run (bytecoind). When we change bytecoind, we no longer comply to the set of instructions and rules that the current blockchain is on, so when we mine our own blocks, they are mined with new code in a new bytecoind, and since other people don't have that bytecoind, they will continue along with their own blockchain. Until most of the network switches over, there would be two different blockchains. Do you understand?

Tl;dr to change the coin, we need to change our software (bytecoind file specifically), which would change the blockchain.

I understand what the blockchain is.  I don't understand what rules need to change to make merged mining possible.

[bitpop]

Honestly as a non developer why do you care? You'll never understand it. I don't either. But you need to grow up and stop being scared of things just because you don't know how they work.

I stopped mining. We only had two blocks today. Do you know what that means? It means you can barely even send a transaction. And getting mined blocks to confirm will take months.

[jaywaka2713]

Honestly the only values that you should care about in this situation are: security, stability, usability, and activity. Security, Stability, and Usability of the coin will all remain the exact same. They WILL NOT change. Usability will expand though, to allow for a broader mining network. Usability of the coin will also expand, as more people will mine on the network, expanding its speed, making it more secure, more usable, and transactions will finish and confirm faster. Really this is the best thing that has happened to Bytecoin.

[bitpop]

Thank you jaywaka.

[Walter Rothbard]

Honestly as a non developer why do you care? You'll never understand it. I don't either.

I care deeply about the issue and want to continue with a pristine fork of Bitcoin like Bytecoin.  Like many Bitcoin users, I don't want the rules changed out from under me.  If you would like me to come along with you on a rules change, I'll need to understand it.

And I am a developer and quite capable of understanding if I get information.

But you need to grow up and stop being scared of things just because you don't know how they work.

I don't like being talked to like that.

[Walter Rothbard]

What rules need to change to make merged mining possible?  Why is it not possible with plain Bitcoin code?

[jaywaka2713]

Well the way the Bitcoin merged mining patch works is that it makes Bitcoin the master blockchain. We need to develop the Bytecoin merged mining patch to be the slave. NOTE the original Bytecoin blockchain will exist and won't go away. We just need to tie into the Bitcoin chain for it to work. We can't use Bitcoin code because things tie into it. We don't want things to tie into Bytecoin, we want to tie into Bitcoin. Understand?

And for the rules that need to be changed, I believe it is just a different way of requesting work and verifying blocks and adding blocks to the blockchain.

[FJBourne]

I am prob a top 5 holder in bytecoins and I def support forking the chain if it will encourage more mining. It's pretty obvious something needs to be done, and quickly

[bitpop]

Thank you. Soon you won't even be able to make a transaction without new blocks.

[ProfMac]

I am prob a top 5 holder in bytecoins and I def support forking the chain if it will encourage more mining. It's pretty obvious something needs to be done, and quickly

How much mining capability do you have?

[jaywaka2713]

I am prob a top 5 holder in bytecoins and I def support forking the chain if it will encourage more mining. It's pretty obvious something needs to be done, and quickly

How much mining capability do you have?

I believe you are asking about his hashrate, right?