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Author Topic: coinjedi / betsofbitco.in SCAMMERS: Declares "Push" on obvious win for BFL bet  (Read 27274 times)
AndyRossy
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April 23, 2013, 06:00:34 PM

Does this mean they can be marked as scammers?
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April 24, 2013, 06:02:35 AM

Does this mean they can be marked as scammers?

Looks pretty cut-and-dry to me.
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April 24, 2013, 11:58:24 PM

Not only should betsofbitco.in get a scammer tag Luke-Jr should get one as an accomplice. I doubt its going to happen though.

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April 25, 2013, 02:05:41 AM

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

I have no interest in this bet either way, but this alone would seem to decide the bet.  Luke, you're not stupid, so how can you get this so wrong?  Are you still claiming to have no interest in the bet?  Do you claim that April 1st is before April 1st?

The title was "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" and the body said "For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met: Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer [...]".

Something happening in April does not happen before April, by the definition of "before".

Shouldn't that be the end of it?

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April 25, 2013, 06:04:27 AM

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

I have no interest in this bet either way, but this alone would seem to decide the bet.  Luke, you're not stupid, so how can you get this so wrong?  Are you still claiming to have no interest in the bet?  Do you claim that April 1st is before April 1st?

The title was "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" and the body said "For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met: Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer [...]".

Something happening in April does not happen before April, by the definition of "before".

Shouldn't that be the end of it?

I'd be inclined to think so...

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April 25, 2013, 12:54:49 PM

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

I have no interest in this bet either way, but this alone would seem to decide the bet.  Luke, you're not stupid, so how can you get this so wrong?  Are you still claiming to have no interest in the bet?  Do you claim that April 1st is before April 1st?

The title was "Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013" and the body said "For this statement to be false, both of the two following conditions must be met: Before April 1st 2013, at least one BFL customer [...]".

Something happening in April does not happen before April, by the definition of "before".

Shouldn't that be the end of it?

Why admit to the obvious when for a few BTC he could just go JoelKatz all over the forum?

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April 25, 2013, 12:57:29 PM

Why admit to the obvious when for a few BTC he could just go JoelKatz all over the forum?

I must have missed something while I was gone. Is that in reference to Ripple?

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April 25, 2013, 01:05:13 PM

Why admit to the obvious when for a few BTC he could just go JoelKatz all over the forum?

I must have missed something while I was gone. Is that in reference to Ripple?

Oh, Joel had a minor meltdown all over the forums some time ago defending a clear scammer against the tag being all katzwordy and stuff and encircling himself in ever more absurd arguments. It was pretty boss to look at in a "man that poor guy sure has gone off the deep end" kind of way.

I forget who that was about, though. Anyone?
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April 25, 2013, 05:38:44 PM

Why admit to the obvious when for a few BTC he could just go JoelKatz all over the forum?

I must have missed something while I was gone. Is that in reference to Ripple?

Oh, Joel had a minor meltdown all over the forums some time ago defending a clear scammer against the tag being all katzwordy and stuff and encircling himself in ever more absurd arguments. It was pretty boss to look at in a "man that poor guy sure has gone off the deep end" kind of way.

I forget who that was about, though. Anyone?

Cursory search leads me to believe "PatrickHarnett" shortly after that whole pirate debacle?

For a moment there, I thought you might have sarcastically been referring to me, but I specifically remember him giving some of the most accurate reasoning to why what I had done was wrong (with my prank bet), and it was his posts that made me rethink my attitude in the first place (they made the most sense to me and forced me to change the way I think).



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April 25, 2013, 06:00:56 PM

Visit the following http://alphapcbdesigns.com/ and click Testimonies.

It took me several hours, but I was able to narrow down the possibilities.

The reason the search term is shifted to the right is because at first I thought I was only going to crop the map, later opting to crop in the text on the left side of the map.

I love that when you click on the testimonials page you get "click back SOON to read testimonials from satisfied customers".   Does that mean BFL was their first.


Ironically, the same exact page(s) has been up for 7 years now: http://web.archive.org/web/20060824041322/http://www.alphapcbdesigns.com/

And not a single testimonial. Hell, even BFL hasn't given them one. Perhaps that is why BFL contracted them to do their BCPs--all the positive testimonials (and they are Greek). Which begs the question, who came first? Nasser or Vleisides? Nasser claims to bringing onboard Sonny in spite of his background, yet BFL's first facility was owned by Sonny's step dad.

Boys, we've been lied to from Day 1.

I'm curious, why do you think BFL uses Alpha? They're a design house, but most seem to believe Nasser is the one doing the PCB designs. The facility in Chicago is the assembly house that mounts the components onto the PCBs. There's no indication that the PCBs themselves are made in Chicago (Alpha doesn't actually make PCBs anyway, they resell services) or that they were designed in Chicago.
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April 25, 2013, 06:26:09 PM

Why admit to the obvious when for a few BTC he could just go JoelKatz all over the forum?

I must have missed something while I was gone. Is that in reference to Ripple?

Oh, Joel had a minor meltdown all over the forums some time ago defending a clear scammer against the tag being all katzwordy and stuff and encircling himself in ever more absurd arguments. It was pretty boss to look at in a "man that poor guy sure has gone off the deep end" kind of way.

I forget who that was about, though. Anyone?

How quickly we forget the cherry truck! There was even a commemorative piece of artwork made for that occasion. Was it a 10 BTC prize I think?

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April 26, 2013, 05:23:10 AM

looks like http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1444 is now closed

I still think they should wait until either:

1. An actual customer shows images/video of a Jalape駉 none if this free/developer unit BS
or
2.  May 1, 2013 end of day Eastern Time


In my opinion all we have is BFL_Jody saying they shipped customer units.. they have lied a lot about deadlines should we really trust them till we know for sure?

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April 26, 2013, 06:12:53 AM

looks like http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1444 is now closed

I still think they should wait until either:

1. An actual customer shows images/video of a Jalape駉 none if this free/developer unit BS
or
2.  May 1, 2013 end of day Eastern Time


In my opinion all we have is BFL_Jody saying they shipped customer units.. they have lied a lot about deadlines should we really trust them till we know for sure?
"Betting deadline is past. This statement is awaiting the event."
"Bet deadline: April 21, 2013 end of day Eastern Time
Event date: May 1, 2013 end of day Eastern Time"

The are waiting until May 1. What else would you like them to do?
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April 26, 2013, 06:30:00 AM

The are waiting until May 1. What else would you like them to do?

I guess I'd like them to pay out the winners of the other BFL bet since it's clearly not really a draw.

BFL didn't ship anything.  Luke visited BFL and worked on it there.
The board Luke was working on wasn't one of the three models that the bet was regarding.
The photos were posted in April, but the bet calls for photos posted before April.

Pick any one of those 3.  They all independently mean the bet wasn't a draw.

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April 26, 2013, 06:36:20 AM

The are waiting until May 1. What else would you like them to do?

I guess I'd like them to pay out the winners of the other BFL bet since it's clearly not really a draw.

BFL didn't ship anything.  Luke visited BFL and worked on it there.
The board Luke was working on wasn't one of the three models that the bet was regarding.
The photos were posted in April, but the bet calls for photos posted before April.

Pick any one of those 3.  They all independently mean the bet wasn't a draw.
Well obviously. I don't think you see many legitimate people here arguing that particular bet was ended properly. I'm not sure what problem swordfish has with the other bet, though.
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April 26, 2013, 10:06:53 AM

I'm not sure what problem swordfish has with the other bet, though.

Quote
http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=1444
Editor's note: BFL claimed shipping on 4/22.
this isn't clear, I would have liked a bit better explanation saying that they would wait until a customer had one?

seems like there taking BFL's side... I do see there waiting but perhaps tomorrow they see a video of a dev unit and close the bet?


Also after the stuff up with the last bet like this I think I am well within my rights to be a bit nervous as to how "fairly" this will be decided?

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April 26, 2013, 11:31:40 PM

Also after the stuff up with the last bet like this I think I am well within my rights to be a bit nervous as to how "fairly" this will be decided?

They'll probably have Puke-Jr go to their office and take a photo of him with a glass jar of pickled jalapeno peppers, and then say they delivered Jalapenos.
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April 28, 2013, 09:15:45 PM

Late to this party because I had no stake. Agree that the bet should have been "true", but no evidence exists that CoinJedi was not using his best judgement when he made this a draw.

As many people have said, a lot of pressure was applied to BFL (whether internally or externally) to win this bet, and it's a shame that they resorted to trying to win it with their developer/prototype. On the other hand, everyone should be aware that BFL has a poor reputation at best and should expect this kind of bad behavior.
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April 29, 2013, 12:41:12 AM

Late to this party because I had no stake. Agree that the bet should have been "true", but no evidence exists that CoinJedi was not using his best judgement when he made this a draw.

Honest or not, it shows that his "best judgment" is not worth shit.

This means the site is unreliable.  Maybe it will pay out when you make a bet.  Maybe the site will just cheat you out of your winnings instead.  You can't really be sure.

All a betting site has is its reputation.  This site's reputation is, or should be, gone.  I wouldn't bet a bitmill there at this point.
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April 29, 2013, 01:25:09 PM

On the other hand, everyone should be aware that BFL has a poor reputation at best and should expect this kind of bad behavior.

This should not excuse what they did.

I still would love to hear any argument from anyone as to why they should not be given scammer tags. No one has defended or even denied what they did.

I'd like to see some sort of statement from Theymos. Even if it's just something like: "It's my forum and I'm not giving Luke or Inaba scammer tags period."
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