SILENTARMY v5: Zcash miner, 115 sol/s on R9 Nano, 70 sol/s on GTX 1070

[nerdralph]

The amount of RAM needed isn't prohibitive - but the algorythm's "lots of memory access limiting the speed" issue might limit the gains an ASIC can manage to the point it's not cost-effective enough to bother.
 I'm still a bit amazed that not just one, but *3* different ASIC showed up pretty close together for X11 a while back - that was a MUCH smaller market by the time the first one arrived than any other ASIC had ever been built for.

FPGA Altera Intel Stratix 10 MX have HBM2 onboard with 1 TB/s
So it's not a big problem.

Sure it will not become a mass product like GPU, but ...
And the other question - cost.

The Stratix 10 MX is targeted at high-end switches and routers.  We're not talking about a $5 Lattice iCE...

[1714625373]

1714625373

[xeridea]

http://www.ufominers.com/zcash-equinox

Known scamers.

Well...I'm already hashing 1kS with 5 cards(4xRX480+1 R9 390) heavily undervolted to save power. Power consumption (wall) is only 880W...This is with Claymore and early era of zcash mining...Until limits are reached noone knows how much this hardware can push. As I see these are MXM cards in custom PCB. It's not pure hardware dedicated ASIC. If you have $3300 consider building NV 1070 RIG. 7 Cards cost ~$3k + $300 for mbd,mem,cpu and additionally some decent PSU...total should not exceed $3500 and you can for sure hash with more than  1kS(+50% or even more) with this piece of hardware.

nvidia hash at better efficiency, i can hash at 1200 sol with only 680w, but it's more expensive

it should be better to go with the 1060 if the ratio with the 1070 is the same

This is just preliminary calculations
Until final optimizations are done, you shouln't make conclusions

and nvidia is not even done yet with coding it can be improved in speed, so even better ration is expected, i doubt amd can catch up with the efficiency

Currently, some AMD cards can hash at the same efficiency as this, at a fraction of the cost. Efficiency is only part of the game, if you are 15% more efficient, but cost 2-3x as much, you don't have an advantage.  Sure you could save the money in power in like 8 years (assuming all your cards last that long), but by then you are obsolete, and missed a huge opportunity to be mining twice as fast for 8 years, so still a loss. Also, what are specs that will mine  Nvidia at this rate, consuming that much at the wall?

Nvida is just too expensive you can now buy a 480 4gb for $179 and prices are just going lower
with vega comming in december , i have some 1070/ got them to play around with i love them but
i only get 120 sols or so and the cost me $400 each i can now get two 480s
for that that hash at 195 sols each at 130 watt

a 1070 can do 220 sol but it's locked on nicehash, still around the same profit as mining zcash

if you want something cheap, the 1060 3gb can do 140 sol and it's $200, wattage should be around 60w(not sure i'm asking around about this as i don't have one)

Or you could get a 470 4GB for $155, and do 180 sol.  You COULD downclock/volt a 470 to hash slow like a 1060, use same power, not be pool locked, and have far better miner features.  I highly doubt you can get 60w at the wall with a 1060 mining at 140 sol though.

Also, to the comment on resale, resale value is kind of irrelevant.  If you have made up the cost of your card 5 times already, does it matter?  AMD cards hold resale for a long time due to their popularity in mining.  5 year old cards still sell well.

[jstefanop]

you have forgot the resale value which is huge for nvidia, a 1070 can be sold again at 80% of its retail price, so i'm not actually paying more in the end

also there is the 1060 which is cheaper and has a 140 sol/60watt ratio which is better than amd and price is there same as a 480 4gb

A 470 can do over 170s/s @ 90 watts, and costs less then a 1060. AMD is the current mining king, your wasting your money if you buy nvidia for mining unless your primary reason is to buy a card or two for your gaming rig.

[Amph]

you have forgot the resale value which is huge for nvidia, a 1070 can be sold again at 80% of its retail price, so i'm not actually paying more in the end

also there is the 1060 which is cheaper and has a 140 sol/60watt ratio which is better than amd and price is there same as a 480 4gb

A 470 can do over 170s/s @ 90 watts, and costs less then a 1060. AMD is the current mining king, your wasting your money if you buy nvidia for mining unless your primary reason is to buy a card or two for your gaming rig.

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better

and btw 170 sol 90 isn't better than 140 sol 60watt, it's not even better than 140 sol 70 watt...

Or you could get a 470 4GB for $155, and do 180 sol.  You COULD downclock/volt a 470 to hash slow like a 1060, use same power, not be pool locked, and have far better miner features.  I highly doubt you can get 60w at the wall with a 1060 mining at 140 sol though.

Also, to the comment on resale, resale value is kind of irrelevant.  If you have made up the cost of your card 5 times already, does it matter?  AMD cards hold resale for a long time due to their popularity in mining.  5 year old cards still sell well.

it matter in the case you need to return fast your investment you just sell back, and buy the new gen card

i don't like to remain with the same gpu for many year, as soon as new better and more efficient gpu come out i sell and buy that

it's a different way to roi, because you don't need to roi on 100% price of your card but just 20%, so almost zero risk involved...

p.s. a 1060 should do 60 watt only because my 1070 do 95 watt at 206 sol, therefore 140 sol at 60-70watt maximum is plausible

[xeridea]

you have forgot the resale value which is huge for nvidia, a 1070 can be sold again at 80% of its retail price, so i'm not actually paying more in the end

also there is the 1060 which is cheaper and has a 140 sol/60watt ratio which is better than amd and price is there same as a 480 4gb

A 470 can do over 170s/s @ 90 watts, and costs less then a 1060. AMD is the current mining king, your wasting your money if you buy nvidia for mining unless your primary reason is to buy a card or two for your gaming rig.

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better

and btw 170 sol 90 isn't better than 140 sol 60watt, it's not even better than 140 sol 70 watt...

Or you could get a 470 4GB for $155, and do 180 sol.  You COULD downclock/volt a 470 to hash slow like a 1060, use same power, not be pool locked, and have far better miner features.  I highly doubt you can get 60w at the wall with a 1060 mining at 140 sol though.

Also, to the comment on resale, resale value is kind of irrelevant.  If you have made up the cost of your card 5 times already, does it matter?  AMD cards hold resale for a long time due to their popularity in mining.  5 year old cards still sell well.

it matter in the case you need to return fast your investment you just sell back, and buy the new gen card

i don't like to remain with the same gpu for many year, as soon as new better and more efficient gpu come out i sell and buy that

it's a different way to roi, because you don't need to roi on 100% price of your card but just 20%, so almost zero risk involved...

p.s. a 1060 should do 60 watt only because my 1070 do 95 watt at 206 sol, therefore 140 sol at 60-70watt maximum is plausible

ROI on a system with a 1070 is currently about a year, terrible.  1060 3GB is slightly better, but you will have higher system costs with slower cards.

So in say 2 years, you made 1x profit on a 1070, or 2x profit on 470s (total system costs, not just cards, which would be worse for 1070). You claim Nvidia has amazing resale value, but ignore that AMD cards resell do very well, due to their mining popularity.

Minor theoretical efficiency gains are a worthless topic.  85% of mining income is profit, 15% power (this is at the lower end, often it is 90%+ profit).  If you are 10% more efficient, you are doing 1.5% better on the whole, but paid 100% (or more) for the privilege. No matter how you slice it, buying Nvidia for Eth or Zec is just a bad idea.  Maybe if you pay $0.30/kwh you may have a case, but in that situation mining isn't that great of an investment anyway.

[Kompik]

I dont understand this logic.

You buy a card for 400$ you sell for 350$ - you will ROI once you reach 50$.
You buy a card that costs 250$, you sell for 200$ - you will ROI once you reach 50$.

So why is the ROI of GTX 1070 longer than with rx480? It only depends on which card will hold the value longer. The price has nothing to do with this.

[xeridea]

I dont understand this logic.

You buy a card for 400$ you sell for 350$ - you will ROI once you reach 50$.
You buy a card that costs 250$, you sell for 200$ - you will ROI once you reach 50$.

So why is the ROI of GTX 1070 longer than with rx480? It only depends on which card will hold the value longer. The price has nothing to do with this.

ROI is return on investment, in other words, how long it takes your investment to pay itself back.

1070 is slightly faster than 480, but pool locked, and pool pays less. It costs twice as much. So it's ROI is twice as long for the 1070.

Buying, and selling 1 month later is not ROI.  It takes ~5-6 weeks to make $50, and if you keep doing this, you will spend a ton of money shipping, and crazy micro-management so you waste tons of time for barely any profit.

New cards don't come out every 5-6 weeks, more like a generation every yearish.  So in a year, a 470 paid for itself more than 2 times over, while a 1070 barely made its money back.

So if you sell a 1070 for $300, and it made you ~500 for the year, you net $200.

If you sell a 470 for $130, and it made you ~430 for the year, you net ~$470.

Even if after a year you take your 470 and run it over with your car, you still made more money with it than with a 1070.

[Kompik]

Well ROI is only a simple equation based on which you should never make an investment and I dont know why it is so overused in this mining scene. If you want to decide which investment you want to take you need to calculate its net present value (NPV) and IRR and use discounted cash flow model which of course do take into account the resale value. time value of money and all the risks to the investment as well.
I really don´t understand how did you come up to these numbers, but anyways good luck in your mining

[Amph]

you have forgot the resale value which is huge for nvidia, a 1070 can be sold again at 80% of its retail price, so i'm not actually paying more in the end

also there is the 1060 which is cheaper and has a 140 sol/60watt ratio which is better than amd and price is there same as a 480 4gb

A 470 can do over 170s/s @ 90 watts, and costs less then a 1060. AMD is the current mining king, your wasting your money if you buy nvidia for mining unless your primary reason is to buy a card or two for your gaming rig.

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better

and btw 170 sol 90 isn't better than 140 sol 60watt, it's not even better than 140 sol 70 watt...

Or you could get a 470 4GB for $155, and do 180 sol.  You COULD downclock/volt a 470 to hash slow like a 1060, use same power, not be pool locked, and have far better miner features.  I highly doubt you can get 60w at the wall with a 1060 mining at 140 sol though.

Also, to the comment on resale, resale value is kind of irrelevant.  If you have made up the cost of your card 5 times already, does it matter?  AMD cards hold resale for a long time due to their popularity in mining.  5 year old cards still sell well.

it matter in the case you need to return fast your investment you just sell back, and buy the new gen card

i don't like to remain with the same gpu for many year, as soon as new better and more efficient gpu come out i sell and buy that

it's a different way to roi, because you don't need to roi on 100% price of your card but just 20%, so almost zero risk involved...

p.s. a 1060 should do 60 watt only because my 1070 do 95 watt at 206 sol, therefore 140 sol at 60-70watt maximum is plausible

ROI on a system with a 1070 is currently about a year, terrible.  1060 3GB is slightly better, but you will have higher system costs with slower cards.

So in say 2 years, you made 1x profit on a 1070, or 2x profit on 470s (total system costs, not just cards, which would be worse for 1070). You claim Nvidia has amazing resale value, but ignore that AMD cards resell do very well, due to their mining popularity.

Minor theoretical efficiency gains are a worthless topic.  85% of mining income is profit, 15% power (this is at the lower end, often it is 90%+ profit).  If you are 10% more efficient, you are doing 1.5% better on the whole, but paid 100% (or more) for the privilege. No matter how you slice it, buying Nvidia for Eth or Zec is just a bad idea.  Maybe if you pay $0.30/kwh you may have a case, but in that situation mining isn't that great of an investment anyway.

4gb version and 470 are not a good duo that you can resell easily, like for example a 480 8gb, gamers don't like gpu with few gb or slow card on gaming, and you usually sell to gamers

a 1070 can be sold at least at 80% of its retail easily on any forum

and why you say you will have higher system cost with a 1060? a 1060 and 480 have the same price here, difference is 20 euro with the 470, so the whole system will be 120 euro higher not a big deal, but efficiency is better

and it's not 10% more efficency, look at a single 1070 220 sol at 95 watt, against 170 sol at 90 watt, that is 25% more efficient not 10%... this multiplied for many rig will make a big difference, and i'm not talking about random dude with 1/5 cent electricity, the majority ain't that cheap

also you forgot one thing, one big thing, having better efficiency isn't only about electricity, it's about saving on cooling and lower cost on psu, all these adds to the saving in the end when you build a farm

and anyway nvidia is not optimized yet like amd..... a 1070 will do more in the near future

[xeridea]

Well ROI is only a simple equation based on which you should never make an investment and I dont know why it is so overused in this mining scene. If you want to decide which investment you want to take you need to calculate its net present value (NPV) and IRR and use discounted cash flow model which of course do take into account the resale value. time value of money and all the risks to the investment as well.
I really don´t understand how did you come up to these numbers, but anyways good luck in your mining

The 1070 is such a horrible investment vs 470, it does not matter what simple or complex equation you are using.  There is literally no circumstance where the 1070 is ever a better investment for mining.

[xeridea]

you have forgot the resale value which is huge for nvidia, a 1070 can be sold again at 80% of its retail price, so i'm not actually paying more in the end

also there is the 1060 which is cheaper and has a 140 sol/60watt ratio which is better than amd and price is there same as a 480 4gb

A 470 can do over 170s/s @ 90 watts, and costs less then a 1060. AMD is the current mining king, your wasting your money if you buy nvidia for mining unless your primary reason is to buy a card or two for your gaming rig.

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better

and btw 170 sol 90 isn't better than 140 sol 60watt, it's not even better than 140 sol 70 watt...

Or you could get a 470 4GB for $155, and do 180 sol.  You COULD downclock/volt a 470 to hash slow like a 1060, use same power, not be pool locked, and have far better miner features.  I highly doubt you can get 60w at the wall with a 1060 mining at 140 sol though.

Also, to the comment on resale, resale value is kind of irrelevant.  If you have made up the cost of your card 5 times already, does it matter?  AMD cards hold resale for a long time due to their popularity in mining.  5 year old cards still sell well.

it matter in the case you need to return fast your investment you just sell back, and buy the new gen card

i don't like to remain with the same gpu for many year, as soon as new better and more efficient gpu come out i sell and buy that

it's a different way to roi, because you don't need to roi on 100% price of your card but just 20%, so almost zero risk involved...

p.s. a 1060 should do 60 watt only because my 1070 do 95 watt at 206 sol, therefore 140 sol at 60-70watt maximum is plausible

ROI on a system with a 1070 is currently about a year, terrible.  1060 3GB is slightly better, but you will have higher system costs with slower cards.

So in say 2 years, you made 1x profit on a 1070, or 2x profit on 470s (total system costs, not just cards, which would be worse for 1070). You claim Nvidia has amazing resale value, but ignore that AMD cards resell do very well, due to their mining popularity.

Minor theoretical efficiency gains are a worthless topic.  85% of mining income is profit, 15% power (this is at the lower end, often it is 90%+ profit).  If you are 10% more efficient, you are doing 1.5% better on the whole, but paid 100% (or more) for the privilege. No matter how you slice it, buying Nvidia for Eth or Zec is just a bad idea.  Maybe if you pay $0.30/kwh you may have a case, but in that situation mining isn't that great of an investment anyway.

4gb version and 470 are not a good duo that you can resell easily, like for example a 480 8gb, gamers don't like gpu with few gb or slow card on gaming, and you usually sell to gamers

a 1070 can be sold at least at 80% of its retail easily on any forum

and why you say you will have higher system cost with a 1060? a 1060 and 480 have the same price here, difference is 20 euro with the 470, so the whole system will be 120 euro higher not a big deal, but efficiency is better

and it's not 10% more efficency, look at a single 1070 220 sol at 95 watt, against 170 sol at 90 watt, that is 25% more efficient not 10%... this multiplied for many rig will make a big difference, and i'm not talking about random dude with 1/5 cent electricity, the majority ain't that cheap

also you forgot one thing, one big thing, having better efficiency isn't only about electricity, it's about saving on cooling and lower cost on psu, all these adds to the saving in the end when you build a farm

and anyway nvidia is not optimized yet like amd..... a 1070 will do more in the near future

I mean system costs relative to hashpower.  So if you can spend $400 for system costs for 6 cards, if you get 840 Sol, vs say 1080 sol, you are spending a higher % on PSU, MB, CPU,RAM, SSD. Smaller issue with similar speeds, but would be bad with say a bunch of 1050s, or 460s.

Lets assume a terrible situation where your power efficiency is horrible, and you spend twice as much on power with 480 vs a 1070, for the same hashes. So say it costs you $10/month instead of $5/month for power.  You spent an extra $200 on 1070, so it would take 40 months, or over 3 years for you to benefit, at which point both cards will be old tech.

If 480 is 25% less efficient, and it costs you an extra $2.50/month with high power cost of $0.14, it would take nearly 7 years for you to benefit, assuming coins didn't all go to PoS by then, and your profit stayed the same, even with hardware that is 2-3x faster in future. How is this considered a better investment?

My point is that, yes, power efficiency matters, but if it costs twice as much, you will never make up the difference.  If the cards have similar cost/hashrate, and not a massive price difference, it may be a factor, but it would need to cost you like $0.40 in power before it was actually worth it, and in that case, your overall income from mining would be really bad anyway.

A 1060 3GB is an ok choice for some people with high power costs, its cost/hash ratio isn't nearly as bad as a 1070, I don't feel like doing the math though.

[induktor]

It makes sense if the places where your miners are cannot handle high heat and high power consumption, like flats downtonw, where other ppl live, and in a tropical area 

if i put there 20 RX 470 they will kill me, and also i'm gonna have to modify the entire power connection to support such a high power consumption, while with a 1070, almost goes unnotice, power usage of the 1070 is a joke.

if i have a warehouse at my disposal sure! i will go for AMD all along, i don't even care about power because i work with solar power, in a warehouse i can probably power almost half of the mining rigs with solar.

but in an appartment downtown, i'm fucked.

don't know other guy's reasons, that's mine i used to have over 40 x 7950 and it was impossible to power and cool those cards, i had to split 20 and 20 in two locations and still was a pain and power expenses where very significant!, now they are not.

but again, if you have cheap power and a warehouse, yes, AMD is king.

[zawawa]

Guys, I promise I will release my new miner with its source code once I'm satisfied with its performance, that is, it is comparable to Claymore's. That is the goal I set my mind to, and I will stick to it.

[ioglnx]

Guys, I promise I will release my new miner with its source code once I'm satisfied with its performance, that is, it is comparable to Claymore's. That is the goal I set my mind to, and I will stick to it.

Thats good to hear - and a clear statement that hopefully stop now all negative speculative harakiri..
Is there any timeframe ? MAybe we can expect beta or alpha to increase number of testing helpers?

Regards

[jiggytom]

Nicehash just released a miner that's supposed to do over 250 on a 1070. Can anyone hack it to run on other pools?

[QuintLeo]

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better
.

 Claymore doesn't do NVidia - need to get Genoil working on his own code instead of trying to get SA working better, or perhaps put some serious effort into fixing the SA code.


 If Nicehash can do it (or if nanopool or someone else can "fix" the nicehash miner to work on other pools again)....

[xeridea]

It makes sense if the places where your miners are cannot handle high heat and high power consumption, like flats downtonw, where other ppl live, and in a tropical area 

if i put there 20 RX 470 they will kill me, and also i'm gonna have to modify the entire power connection to support such a high power consumption, while with a 1070, almost goes unnotice, power usage of the 1070 is a joke.

if i have a warehouse at my disposal sure! i will go for AMD all along, i don't even care about power because i work with solar power, in a warehouse i can probably power almost half of the mining rigs with solar.

but in an appartment downtown, i'm fucked.

don't know other guy's reasons, that's mine i used to have over 40 x 7950 and it was impossible to power and cool those cards, i had to split 20 and 20 in two locations and still was a pain and power expenses where very significant!, now they are not.

but again, if you have cheap power and a warehouse, yes, AMD is king.

If you live in an apartment, just get 25% less 480s.  You will make less per month, but you won't have a massive upfront cost to get the 1070s.  Or better yet, get some 1060 3GB, which have a much more reasonable cost/hash, and a reasonable price.  There are cases where 1060 3GB makes sense, but not 1070s.

[reb0rn21]

Nicehash just released a miner that's supposed to do over 250 on a 1070. Can anyone hack it to run on other pools?

nicehash miner do not use stratum, but their own pool protocol so hacking is no easy go, it would be more easy to hack claymore

[ZedZedNova]

yes because nvidia is not optimized fully,. wait until clymore will work on it, it will be on par if not better

Where this argument falls down is in the economics of the argument, assuming you are in the mining game to make money/profit.

You can mine right now with AMD GPUs that are cheaper than NVDA, and mine at sol/s rates on the AMDs that significantly exceed what's currently achievable on the NVDAs, and the AMD GPUs consume less power, which for many of us is a significant factor.

Can the NVDAs out hash the AMDs? Perhaps given time and optimization of the code. Are the NVDAs more efficient than the AMDs in a sol/s/watt? Not right now, but again, given time and optimization of code, perhaps.

If you are getting started now, go with what works for you now. How long will you wait? A week? A month? Three months? The future may never arrive, and in the meantime you could be earning ZEC now.

[pokeytex]

Nicehash just released a miner that's supposed to do over 250 on a 1070. Can anyone hack it to run on other pools?

What link?