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Author Topic: BFL Timeline - illustrated  (Read 8494 times)
Syke
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April 10, 2013, 01:49:37 AM
 #21


I'm stupid for thinking that BFL is incompetent?

You're stupid for thinking they're only incompetent. They are also deceitful.

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April 10, 2013, 01:52:18 AM
 #22

PS: just ignore nathanrees19... he's just a BFL fan boi Wink

You realise that I'm flat out calling them stupid, right?

I think the chances of you being so stupid that you actually believe what you're saying in this thread is < 0%. Therefore I'm putting you on ignore.

I'm stupid for thinking that BFL is incompetent?

I am sure their lawyers will have them use incompetence as a defense. However, their claims of having a prototype when it was clear they did not is misrepresenting the facts. If you take someone's money, promise them goods or services, and lie all at the same time, that is fraud. Since they did it over the internet it is wire fraud.

http://www.federalcrimefaq.com/what-constitutes-the-crime-of-wire-fraud/

All 4 requirements for a fraud conviction are easily provable in BFLs case. BFLs only chance is to ship something fast.

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Matthew N. Wright
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April 10, 2013, 01:54:59 AM
 #23

All 4 requirements for a fraud conviction are easily provable in BFLs case. BFLs only chance is to ship something fast.

I disagree, at least with this:

Quote
That the accused did so willfully and with an intent to defraud; and

When a company spends money on advertisements, (semi-)working hardware, etc, you can easily argue that they were intending to produce. It would be very hard for a judge to rule that BFL was *intending* to defraud people in an industry where legitimate companies fail constantly due to financial restraints and hardware failure.

That said, they'd lose any case in regards to honesty in advertising and could be sued for that alone. In the end, they'd probably lose the same way Bruce Wagner lost for his mortgage venture. Bottom line: Taking insanely large amounts of money and not providing a single product.

nathanrees19
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April 10, 2013, 01:55:13 AM
 #24


I'm stupid for thinking that BFL is incompetent?

You're stupid for thinking they're only incompetent. They are also deceitful.

No, I just think that their incompetence outweighs their deceitfulness, at least in this case.
nathanrees19
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April 10, 2013, 02:07:25 AM
 #25

PS: just ignore nathanrees19... he's just a BFL fan boi Wink

You realise that I'm flat out calling them stupid, right?

I think the chances of you being so stupid that you actually believe what you're saying in this thread is < 0%. Therefore I'm putting you on ignore.

For the benefit of others, this was the thought process:

What's the chance that BFL would tell a lie that is guaranteed to be exposed and hurt their business?

What's the chance that BFL's managers are optimistic and unable to understand the challenges of designing ASIC products and their engineers would fail to communicate the proper information to them?

I have a lot of personal experience with the second option, having worked for companies that shipped products more than a year late. In every case the marketing people actually believed what they were publishing and the managers actually believed that the timelines were viable, and the engineers actually were terrible at communication. It's even more likely in BFL's case since they outsourced most of their engineering. Hence, this option seems more likely.

I'm sure creativex applied his feelings and they told him that bfl MUST have been lying from the start. Everyone knows that feels trump facts and rational analysis, and anyone who disagrees with your feelings is stupid.
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April 10, 2013, 02:09:35 AM
 #26

PS: just ignore nathanrees19... he's just a BFL fan boi Wink

You realise that I'm flat out calling them stupid, right?

I think the chances of you being so stupid that you actually believe what you're saying in this thread is < 0%. Therefore I'm putting you on ignore.

For the benefit of others, this was the thought process:

What's the chance that BFL would tell a lie that is guaranteed to be exposed and hurt their business?

What's the chance that BFL's managers are optimistic and unable to understand the challenges of designing ASIC products and their engineers would fail to communicate the proper information to them?

I have a lot of personal experience with the second option, having worked for companies that shipped products more than a year late. In every case the marketing people actually believed what they were publishing and the managers actually believed that the timelines were viable, and the engineers actually were terrible at communication. It's even more likely in BFL's case since they outsourced most of their engineering. Hence, this option seems more likely.

I'm sure creativex applied his feelings and they told him that bfl MUST have been lying from the start. Everyone knows that feels trump facts and rational analysis, and anyone who disagrees with your feelings is stupid.

You're forgetting that bitcoin, the internet, and the communities of con-artists at large are full of sociopaths. Why would they care about getting caught in a lie when they think they're above the truth? Pirate made himself believe everything he said.

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April 10, 2013, 02:22:35 AM
 #27


For the benefit of others, this was the thought process:

What's the chance that BFL would tell a lie that is guaranteed to be exposed and hurt their business?

What's the chance that BFL's managers are optimistic and unable to understand the challenges of designing ASIC products and their engineers would fail to communicate the proper information to them?

I have a lot of personal experience with the second option, having worked for companies that shipped products more than a year late. In every case the marketing people actually believed what they were publishing and the managers actually believed that the timelines were viable, and the engineers actually were terrible at communication. It's even more likely in BFL's case since they outsourced most of their engineering. Hence, this option seems more likely.

The first option has been proven time and time again. Here's just one example for you.

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

The FCC has no record of any such device. Inaba was flat out lying.

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k9quaint
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April 10, 2013, 02:24:30 AM
 #28

All 4 requirements for a fraud conviction are easily provable in BFLs case. BFLs only chance is to ship something fast.

I disagree, at least with this:

Quote
That the accused did so willfully and with an intent to defraud; and

When a company spends money on advertisements, (semi-)working hardware, etc, you can easily argue that they were intending to produce. It would be very hard for a judge to rule that BFL was *intending* to defraud people in an industry where legitimate companies fail constantly due to financial restraints and hardware failure.

That said, they'd lose any case in regards to honesty in advertising and could be sued for that alone. In the end, they'd probably lose the same way Bruce Wagner lost for his mortgage venture. Bottom line: Taking insanely large amounts of money and not providing a single product.

If I say I have something, then I sell it to you and take your money, then I tell you I will give it to you in 2 weeks, then it turns out I never had what I sold you, that is willfully committing fraud. Even saying you have something in stock when you do not is fraud if it is done on purpose and for the intent of taking a customers money who would not otherwise transact with you.

None of this is in conflict with BFL actually trying to ship a product.

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April 10, 2013, 02:31:05 AM
 #29

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

The FCC has no record of any such device. Inaba was flat out lying.

What evidence do you have for this?

The FCC can take months to process the paperwork even after a test lab produces a report, and if BFL outsourced the design, the paperwork will not necessarily mention the company or even the product by name. Companies can also pay for confidentiality, which BFL would have done.
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April 10, 2013, 02:49:25 AM
 #30

<OP snipped>

Still laughing! Excellent humor. Now to post 2.
k9quaint
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April 10, 2013, 02:56:36 AM
 #31

<OP snipped>

Still laughing! Excellent humor. Now to post 2.

We need to take this thread's OP and your Box of Fans resistance is futile post and have them make babies together!  Grin

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April 10, 2013, 03:06:57 AM
 #32

So, Wheres our "Final stage of developement" product?....
You guys told us you had it in 2012, We preordered under the assumption (false pretenses) that you were in the Final Stage of product.
You Blatently Fucking Lied. BFL
I would love to see the "final stage of developement" Since i dont think that will happen untill they decide to Run with everyones money
This is why it is FRAUD, They sold us a product with False Advertising
Heck, they didnt even sell a product, they took our money, gave us a number, and each month they tell us to wait a month!
FRAUDSTERS!

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
Phinnaeus Gage
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April 10, 2013, 03:08:50 AM
 #33

All 4 requirements for a fraud conviction are easily provable in BFLs case. BFLs only chance is to ship something fast.

I disagree, at least with this:

Quote
That the accused did so willfully and with an intent to defraud; and

When a company spends money on advertisements, (semi-)working hardware, etc, you can easily argue that they were intending to produce. It would be very hard for a judge to rule that BFL was *intending* to defraud people in an industry where legitimate companies fail constantly due to financial restraints and hardware failure.

That said, they'd lose any case in regards to honesty in advertising and could be sued for that alone. In the end, they'd probably lose the same way Bruce Wagner lost for his mortgage venture. Bottom line: Taking insanely large amounts of money and not providing a single product.

Goes to court. They lose. Ordered to pay a fine. And not allowed to ever run another company in Kansas. But in Missouri, France, Costa Rica, etc., will be fine--without ever having to pay the fine.
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April 10, 2013, 03:14:18 AM
 #34

When is the Jalapeno getting FCC approval?

Maybe two weeks? We are waiting for the test lab to issue the test report.

The FCC has no record of any such device. Inaba was flat out lying.

What evidence do you have for this?

The FCC can take months to process the paperwork even after a test lab produces a report, and if BFL outsourced the design, the paperwork will not necessarily mention the company or even the product by name. Companies can also pay for confidentiality, which BFL would have done.

WRONG!

Apologies for bumping heads with you, nathan, on this. Will provide proof in a sec, bud.
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April 10, 2013, 03:17:46 AM
 #35

Not sure why you guys hate BFL so much.

They have executed "their" business plan.  People did not have to buy.
Or should have cancelled orders after the 2nd missed deadline.

It would be hard to prove in court that they did something wrong.

At least they are trying to get some new ASIC products to the market. 
They have some experience with FPGAs so they are in a better position than most of these new
"Swedish cedar dragons" scams. 

I would not call BFL a scam.  If they fold, people will not get their money back.
In courts or otherwise.  Even then it will not be a scam.  Just another failed business.

If they actually start shipping next month, all this talk will be forgotten.

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April 10, 2013, 03:19:38 AM
 #36

The second name of Josh is "next week"

Syke
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April 10, 2013, 03:27:47 AM
 #37

Not sure why you guys hate BFL so much.

Because their lies have damaged the Bitcoin mining market. By promising impossible price, performance, and dates, they tied up millions of dollars worth of capital that should have gone towards good companies that would have created a competitive ASIC and/or FPGA market.

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April 10, 2013, 03:35:56 AM
 #38

I got quite a chuckle out of this.  Grin

Something I've been wondering, have any of the faithful BFLers in the Kansas City area called up and requested a facility tour?

I don't see why this would be an unreasonable request. Perhaps someone should organize a group. Hell for a respectable amount of BTC  I'd be willing to contact them, and organize something. God knows they could use a nice little PR event right now, with real members of the community, as they've lost so much credibility.  I work for a fortune 20 and have been in front of my CTO and different VPs over time... I do know that after the second time of saying "2 weeks" I'd be out of a job.

Don't get me wrong, for the diversity of bitcoin I really hope they do deliver a product... but my dad always said "you can wish in one hand, and crap in the other... see which one fills up first."

Long live BTC!!!
 
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April 10, 2013, 03:49:47 AM
 #39

PS: just ignore nathanrees19... he's just a BFL fan boi Wink

You realise that I'm flat out calling them stupid, right?

I think the chances of you being so stupid that you actually believe what you're saying in this thread is < 0%. Therefore I'm putting you on ignore.

I'm stupid for thinking that BFL is incompetent?

I am sure their lawyers will have them use incompetence as a defense. However, their claims of having a prototype when it was clear they did not is misrepresenting the facts. If you take someone's money, promise them goods or services, and lie all at the same time, that is fraud. Since they did it over the internet it is wire fraud.

http://www.federalcrimefaq.com/what-constitutes-the-crime-of-wire-fraud/

All 4 requirements for a fraud conviction are easily provable in BFLs case. BFLs only chance is to ship something fast.

Which is EXACTLY why I think they will ship something.    I also think they will not ship their entire order and will chapter 11.   Too many people have reported them already for them not to keep the dance going.


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April 10, 2013, 03:52:29 AM
 #40

Quote
If they actually start shipping next month,

muhaha... Stockholm syndrome?

I hope they fail

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