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Author Topic: Wikileaks contact info?  (Read 39637 times)
bober182
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December 05, 2010, 08:14:50 AM
 #141

Its seems all you want is your business to not be taxed that we will be free if we have competition and all that.
This is not an issue of rightwing vs leftwing.
Its an issue of freedom of press and the fact they need a anonymous network of donations.
I bet you don't ever see the oppression around society and decide to go out and do some direct action. Like in the case of the ashvi11e eleven or oscar grant. Instead you want to have more money and create the perfect economy. For revolution we need social change before economic. Wikileaks can be the first step to achieving this against the government. That's why I'm deciding to contact and explain to them the benefits of bitcoin.

em3rgent order
I'm just checking up getting the userbase on board with the idea. Trying to see if anyone else thinks its a possible good way to get donations on there site without having things shut down, same as the bitDNS project if we code it and wikileaks uses it will we all pussy out as they are deemed a terrorist organization?

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jgarzik
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December 05, 2010, 08:15:21 AM
 #142

Also, it would be nice if you explain what kind of "pressure" you're doing. You represent the rest of the bitcoiners here, so it's nice to know how bob182 is acting on our behalf.

bob182 is certainly not acting on my behalf, nor several others, as these threads seem to indicate.

And for Pete's sake, bob182, please don't misrepresent yourself as some sort of official Bitcoin representative.

Wikileaks is the enemy of major world powers right now, with many influential elites feeling that Assange committed an act of war against the United States, or, at a minimum, irrevocably disrupted world affairs.  This is not some mailing list discussion or theoretical exercise; there are very real, very powerful organizations actively targetting wikileaks' network infrastructure, organizational infrastructure, and most importantly, financial infrastructure.

It is extraordinarily unwise to make bitcoin such a highly visible target, at such an early stage in this project.  There could be a lot of "collateral damage" in the bitcoin community while you make your principled stand.

Jeff Garzik, bitcoin core dev team and BitPay engineer; opinions are my own, not my employer.
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December 05, 2010, 08:17:17 AM
 #143

Its seems all you want is your business to not be taxed that we will be free if we have competition and all that.
This is not an issue of rightwing vs leftwing.
Its an issue of freedom of press and the fact they need a anonymous network of donations.
I bet you don't ever see the oppression around society and decide to go out and do some direct action. Like in the case of the ashvi11e eleven or oscar grant. Instead you want to have more money and create the perfect economy. For revolution we need social change before economic. Wikileaks can be the first step to achieving this against the government. That's why I'm deciding to contact and explain to them the benefits of bitcoin.

This is god awful reasoning that didn't address any of my concerns, or jgarzik, or any others.

We also have no ideas what the heck you're saying to these people.

farmer_boy
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December 05, 2010, 08:23:15 AM
 #144

Also, it would be nice if you explain what kind of "pressure" you're doing. You represent the rest of the bitcoiners here, so it's nice to know how bob182 is acting on our behalf.

bob182 is certainly not acting on my behalf, nor several others, as these threads seem to indicate.

And for Pete's sake, bob182, please don't misrepresent yourself as some sort of official Bitcoin representative.
bober182 doesn't need to have anybody's permission to do anything. Even if he were to present himself as being 'official', the Wikileaks people are probably smarter than the average visitor of this forum, so they would be able to figure that out in less than a minute.

Does anyone have an idea of how large the Wikileaks group is? I know one guy who is in it, but two guys don't make a group Wink I suppose the actual members are a secret, but is the number too?

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December 05, 2010, 08:29:50 AM
 #145

Or, to put in military terms, we know that wikileaks' entire financial infrastructure is being actively targeted, and The Powers That Be have successfully destroyed one target in the past 24 hours.

Only cannon fodder would stand up and wave a red flag that says "shoot me" at such a point in time  Smiley

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December 05, 2010, 08:32:59 AM
 #146

bober182 doesn't need to have anybody's permission to do anything.

This isn't about a permission issue.

I just want bober182 to be a responsible member of the community. He's going in there, contacting the organization, when it is clear that members of the community don't think it is the best idea. He didn't address any of our concerns. He didn't give us any details what he is planning to do, except putting additional "pressure" which could mean anything from "being pushy" or selling "snake oil".

This is akin to somebody just go in there, with no plans and guns blazing, costing half of his squads and then costing us a war in the long run.

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December 05, 2010, 08:34:35 AM
 #147

The wikileaks board of directors has 10 members + JA, then there are about 150~200 staff, and under that are 1400 volunteers.

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satoshi
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December 05, 2010, 09:08:08 AM
 #148

Basically, bring it on.  Let's encourage Wikileaks to use Bitcoins and I'm willing to face any risk or fallout from that act.
No, don't "bring it on".

The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way.

I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy.  You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage.
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December 05, 2010, 11:02:34 AM
 #149

Seems that the main politician this embarrassed was Hillary Clinton.

Either the pentagon or the cia leaked these papers.

*Points finger at Robert Gates . Cheesy

I'm sorry...I'm not totally following you...could you elaborate?  Why would Robert Gates want to release videos of US Troops murdering Iraqi civilians?

Because the pentagon and the cia are in a tussle for control. It makes the military look bad.
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December 05, 2010, 12:49:00 PM
 #150

Why isnt the US spying on UN officials and torture committed under the Bush administration being investigated? That is the real crime in all this. Instead they are focusing on assassinating Julian . That tells me everything about the morals of the people involved.

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December 05, 2010, 02:17:40 PM
 #151

Basically, bring it on.  Let's encourage Wikileaks to use Bitcoins and I'm willing to face any risk or fallout from that act.
No, don't "bring it on".

The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way.

I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy.  You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage.

I strongly agree with this sentiment, bitcoin is young, we should behave accordingly.
We should be working hard to grow and mature bitcoin with a goal that one day it will be of the standard and quality that it can be a great help for Wikileaks.

I suggest that when the bitcoin community commits to the sustained donation of more than 50% of Wikileaks operating expenses at a time to consider a formal relationship.

Until then, let’s not use Wikileaks as a cheap publicity stunt, but rather a goal that we use to spur us on to develop this ‘bitcoin’ tool that will help support the important work that Wikileaks is doing on freedoms behalf.

Ps. In another post I voiced a differing view, which Wikileaks and bitcoin could enter into a mutually beneficial relationship for development; however I have since revised this view, under the account of the different maturities between Wikileaks and bitcoin.  Wikileaks is mature, while bitcoin is (relatively) immature. It would not be a balanced relationship.

One off NP-Hard.
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December 05, 2010, 02:39:23 PM
 #152

Basically, bring it on.  Let's encourage Wikileaks to use Bitcoins and I'm willing to face any risk or fallout from that act.
No, don't "bring it on".

The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way.

I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy.  You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage.


Wow.  Satoshi gets more than "just one vote".... in my opinion.  

Let's not let this issue divide us.

RHorning, and others, your commitment to what's right, freedom of the press, etc is inspiring.   It makes me want to support Wikileaks even more than ever.

Also, our hero in Congress,  Ron Paul, coming out supporting Wikileaks... is very inspiring too.   ( Did you see this?  Ron Paul - Julian Assange - Federal Reserve | http://goo.gl/NIBsk )

I propose a win-win solution to this.

Let's form a Wikileaks Support Task Force....  where we brainstorm about ways to help Wikileaks ..... without bringing Bitcoin into the battle (or "war").

We are a large group of very smart guys here.  We can probably put our heads together and think of 1000 ways we could help Wikileaks .... even in areas around funding, donations,  etc....  WITHOUT recommending Bitcoin.   There are so many ideas we could give them.    Even, in the area of money,  recommending other alternative payment systems ...  Liberty Reserve?   I don't know...   But you guys do!   Recommend something far better than PayPal --- super easy for Americans to use --- (but something other than Bitcoin).    MoneyBookers.com?   GoldMoney.com?  Paxum.com?  You tell me...

We can put our collective heads together and come up with 1000 great ways we can HELP Wikileaks achieve what they need....  without mentioning Bitcoin.  

Honestly,  I'm not sure that Bitcoin really is their best alternate funding channel anyway.  It's NOT EASY for Americans to buy and send Bitcoin yet!  

Just after my radio interview the other day, I spent 40 minutes on the phone with a lady who called me from Toledo.   She wanted me to talk her through the entire process of creating an account at MyBitcoin,  then buying Bitcoin on BitcoinGateway...   It was excruciating.  This woman had never used copy & paste before.    Apparently,  she never did fully complete the purchase verification process.  

My point is:

1.   Bitcoin is not ready for typical American users yet --- especially not millions of people all trying to use BitcoinGateway at once!   Poor chaord will be pulling his hair out..... and probably taking his site & service off-line completely,  as a result.  

2.  If we try not to be biased, we will see many other funding mechanisms that are probably much better suited for immediately use by average Americans, in USD, at this moment in time.    Paxum?

3.   Let's promote,  propel, and support Wikileaks in every way.

4.   Let's promote, propel, protect, and support our greatest tool of the 21st Century, Bitcoin, in every way.      ....at the same time.

Bitcoin is our secret weapon in this "war".    It is our Big Gun.    Let's save it, preserve it, protect it, strengthen it......   and when the time is right, it will change everything.    

If it gets too much bad publicity now... it's mainstream adoption could be delayed by DECADES.    Seriously.  

While they're busy trying to figure out how to block Wikileaks DNS ...

We are quietly getting all the world's most respected charities to accept Bitcoin. Then, all local barter clubs and local alternate currency groups, we convince to "join the Bitcoin electronic network"...  Then, we get the world's most respected businesses to accept Bitcoin.    All the while ....  Bitcoin is getting stronger and stronger.... going more and more mainstream .... with every passing day.    Under their radar.  Right under their noses.   In a way, it's using Bitcoin's obscurity to its best advantage... for this stage of its growth.  

The giant Redwood ..... with a tiny ax... and a chop chop chop chop every day...  it comes falling down.
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December 05, 2010, 05:33:39 PM
 #153


Wow.  Satoshi gets more than "just one vote".... in my opinion.  

When he went to all this trouble to create this wonderful project, he deserves a lot of recognition.
Let's not let this issue divide us.
Quote
I propose a win-win solution to this.

Let's form a Wikileaks Support Task Force....  where we brainstorm about ways to help Wikileaks ..... without bringing Bitcoin into the battle (or "war").


You do realize that time spent on helping wikileaks is not time spent on growing bitcoin. I think growing and making bitcoin better is a good use of our time. There are already ton of people helping wikileaks. When the time is right, bitcoin is going to change the world, just as it had changed how bitcoiners view money....forever.

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December 05, 2010, 07:29:10 PM
 #154

It is extraordinarily unwise to make bitcoin such a highly visible target, at such an early stage in this project.  There could be a lot of "collateral murder" in the bitcoin community while you make your principled stand.

Having read this thread, I've done a U-turn on my earlier view and agree. Lets protect and care for bitcoin until she leaves her nursery onto the economic killing fields.
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December 05, 2010, 07:32:10 PM
 #155

bober182: If you're still here and you're still doing "that thing". I suggest you turn around and tell the wikileaks folk that wikileak should stop considering bitcoin for the moment in case that Satoshi's message didn't get through.

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December 05, 2010, 09:16:16 PM
 #156

I am not the most stubborn person in the world. I side with Satoshi's wishes too.

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December 05, 2010, 09:19:43 PM
 #157

Basically, bring it on.  Let's encourage Wikileaks to use Bitcoins and I'm willing to face any risk or fallout from that act.
No, don't "bring it on".

The project needs to grow gradually so the software can be strengthened along the way.

I make this appeal to WikiLeaks not to try to use Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is a small beta community in its infancy.  You would not stand to get more than pocket change, and the heat you would bring would likely destroy us at this stage.


This is exactly what I was saying all along, but nobody is listening.
Bitcoin is not yet stron enough to take on such a huge task.

Pushing bitcoin on wikileaks will kill bitcoin, and still it won't help wikileaks a lot.

RHorning
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December 05, 2010, 09:20:52 PM
 #158

It is extraordinarily unwise to make bitcoin such a highly visible target, at such an early stage in this project.  There could be a lot of "collateral murder" in the bitcoin community while you make your principled stand.

Having read this thread, I've done a U-turn on my earlier view and agree. Lets protect and care for bitcoin until she leaves her nursery onto the economic killing fields.

I'm sort of wondering just when that might be?

I've stated my position on this, but I'm willing to listen to group consensus on this issue to so far as this isn't an irreversible decision.  The fact is that there are dozens or hundreds of other opportunities that Bitcoins could help with, and I'm willing to work on most of those other ideas well before even trying to lobby Wikileaks for accepting Bitcoins as a donation.

If Wikileaks finds out and advertises the link for Bitcoin donations, we should be prepared for what might be a huge influx of new people into the forum and as users.  I think the common consensus is that would happen even without a push by the Bitcoin community at all.  Bitcoins are also low key enough that I personally don't think the popular news media (and with that the government regulators) would pay attention to Bitcoins on any sort of scale, but I can understand why people on this forum don't want to expose the Bitcoin community on this issue.

I still think it is the right thing to do and I personally am not afraid of what would happen to Bitcoin as software or to the network if such an influx of users and attention happened.  Something is eventually going to break like that, so the Bitcoin community ought to be prepared for that eventuality.  If this concrete example is somehow going to spur on developments that make Bitcoin more secure, it sounds like even the possibility that Wikileaks may use Bitcoins is a good thing.  If not this particular incident, there will be something else like this which may eventually push Bitcoins into the limelight.

If Satoshi wants to stay timid, that is his opinion.  We can't stay like this forever though.

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December 05, 2010, 09:23:23 PM
 #159


I still think it is the right thing to do and I personally am not afraid of what would happen to Bitcoin as software or to the network if such an influx of users and attention happened.  Something is eventually going to break like that, so the Bitcoin community ought to be prepared for that eventuality.  If this concrete example is somehow going to spur on developments that make Bitcoin more secure, it sounds like even the possibility that Wikileaks may use Bitcoins is a good thing.  If not this particular incident, there will be something else like this which may eventually push Bitcoins into the limelight.


You reasoning is sound, but the cost and benefit is hard to determine. We don't have many people who really understand how bitcoin work, real deeply. So Satoshi would have to be fast on his toe.

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December 05, 2010, 09:25:08 PM
 #160

Also, while bitcoin is in its infancy, we (bitcoiners) should avoid engaging in drugs, prostitution, weapon selling & other semi-legal activities.

If bitcoin will lift off using money from fraudesters & gangsters, how in world will we ever manage to promote it to be a serious currency ?

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