A Heroin Store

[lemonginger]

I've always wondered about plausible deniability when it comes to getting things in the mail.

In this case, if they payment can't be tracked, how can it be proved that you were the actual orderer? What is to stop me from ordering a bunch of illegal stuff and having it sent to my political rival's house and then making an anonymous tip. Seems like unless a pattern was developed over time and there was evidence of receipt and use (or receipt and sale) not much could be done. How can getting a package be without a reasonable doubt that you actually bought that package?

I don't think this is anywhere near the level of secrecy needed to move quantity - you aren't going to send a few k of yayo to a stranger UPS - but I think it will work fine for the personal use market. or

[1715541844]

1715541844

[KedP]

Interesting thread...

I recently heard about a way someone sells "previously abandoned" bikes here in NYC. Buyer contacts seller, and gives his address (or convenient area). Buyer places the bike, locked up in the area and gives the location of the bike to the buyer. If the buyer approves of the bike (visual inspection, etc), and payment is made - then the seller sends the combination to the lock and the transaction has been made - with no physical interaction. The seller remained anonymous the entire time, and was in complete control of where he placed the bike.

Taking that same process in to the thought process being used here, one could use something like http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306973_200306973. Simply use a bike chain, and hook up this padlock with the chain somewhere (not really that odd since there are tons of bike chains sans bikes in NYC). The padlock contains a compartment that can only be opened by knowing the combo - once the bitcoin transaction has been completed, the combo is provided to the buyer.


More shots/info of the linked lock: http://www.iwebstall.com/master-lock-5400d-select-access-key-storage-box-with-review/

A variation on this theme would be depositing stuff in bus depot lockers, or gym lockers, or school lockers.

The issue of course is security cameras with these places. This would let people trade larger items anyway.

Realistically the seller is not the one at risk if the item is placed in the mail. The buyer takes all the risk.

[FatherMcGruder]

Realistically the seller is not the one at risk if the item is placed in the mail. The buyer takes all the risk.

What risk? Anyone can send almost anything to anyone else through the mail.

What is to stop me from ordering a bunch of illegal stuff and having it sent to my political rival's house and then making an anonymous tip.

Nothing. It probably already happens to politicians and the like. If such a defense will work for them, it should also work for commoners.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Interesting thread...

I recently heard about a way someone sells "previously abandoned" bikes here in NYC. Buyer contacts seller, and gives his address (or convenient area). Buyer places the bike, locked up in the area and gives the location of the bike to the buyer. If the buyer approves of the bike (visual inspection, etc), and payment is made - then the seller sends the combination to the lock and the transaction has been made - with no physical interaction. The seller remained anonymous the entire time, and was in complete control of where he placed the bike.

Taking that same process in to the thought process being used here, one could use something like http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306973_200306973. Simply use a bike chain, and hook up this padlock with the chain somewhere (not really that odd since there are tons of bike chains sans bikes in NYC). The padlock contains a compartment that can only be opened by knowing the combo - once the bitcoin transaction has been completed, the combo is provided to the buyer.


More shots/info of the linked lock: http://www.iwebstall.com/master-lock-5400d-select-access-key-storage-box-with-review/

A variation on this theme would be depositing stuff in bus depot lockers, or gym lockers, or school lockers.

The issue of course is security cameras with these places. This would let people trade larger items anyway.

Realistically the seller is not the one at risk if the item is placed in the mail. The buyer takes all the risk.

A market demand for a locker space on private property, guaranteed without surveillance? Swipe card key opening or combination, sent in mail granting access to locker.

[MoonShadow]

Interesting thread...

I recently heard about a way someone sells "previously abandoned" bikes here in NYC. Buyer contacts seller, and gives his address (or convenient area). Buyer places the bike, locked up in the area and gives the location of the bike to the buyer. If the buyer approves of the bike (visual inspection, etc), and payment is made - then the seller sends the combination to the lock and the transaction has been made - with no physical interaction. The seller remained anonymous the entire time, and was in complete control of where he placed the bike.

Taking that same process in to the thought process being used here, one could use something like http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306973_200306973. Simply use a bike chain, and hook up this padlock with the chain somewhere (not really that odd since there are tons of bike chains sans bikes in NYC). The padlock contains a compartment that can only be opened by knowing the combo - once the bitcoin transaction has been completed, the combo is provided to the buyer.

More shots/info of the linked lock: http://www.iwebstall.com/master-lock-5400d-select-access-key-storage-box-with-review/

A variation on this theme would be depositing stuff in bus depot lockers, or gym lockers, or school lockers.

The issue of course is security cameras with these places. This would let people trade larger items anyway.

Realistically the seller is not the one at risk if the item is placed in the mail. The buyer takes all the risk.

A market demand for a locker space on private property, guaranteed without surveillance? Swipe card key opening or combination, sent in mail granting access to locker.

I've actually considered this before.  But there is no way to assess the market, nor is there any way to advertise your services to the local target audience without also risk of alerting the LEO's.

[lemonginger]

A market demand for a locker space on private property, guaranteed without surveillance? Swipe card key opening or combination, sent in mail granting access to locker.

A one-stop shop for many search warrants to be served at once :/

[marcus_of_augustus]

A market demand for a locker space on private property, guaranteed without surveillance? Swipe card key opening or combination, sent in mail granting access to locker.

A one-stop shop for many search warrants to be served at once :/

Got a workaround?

[skitzilla]

i need a cocaine store but have no idea how to get to silk road ppl help me
i need address with instructions

[w0mbat]

i need a cocaine store but have no idea how to get to silk road ppl help me
i need address with instructions

lol!

[FatherMcGruder]

lol!

Drug addiction is no laughing matter!

[w0mbat]

yeah, you´re right. i´m sorry!

[Babylon]

i need a cocaine store but have no idea how to get to silk road ppl help me
i need address with instructions

First learn to use TOR.  This is not the place to do that.  Once you understand Tor you can come back.

[lemonginger]

I would add, second, learn the limitations of TOR. ie; learn not just how to use it, but how to use it well.

[Jack of Diamonds]

The heroin store idea was more of a libertarian thought experiment than a serious proposal.

If somebody started discussing a CP store on this forum they would a) very quickly get a really bad reputation and b) probably get banned by the admins.

So why not the same reaction to somebody who discusses a heroin store? Because CP is coercive and selling heroin to adults isn't.

Meh, I don't really care if my neighbor buys stuff to put up his nose. It's his life, and I might think he's ruining it esp. if he can't keep up the habit with legal funds, but it's his life. Who am I to judge him.

If he's paying to see footage of horribly abused or manipulated kids (or even paying someone to do it) then it becomes an issue. I don't need to know the children in question personally to care; I just don't want to live near a person who can without any remorse be turned on by abuse of kids.
I don't care that the abuse already happened and he's just looking at the evidence.

And I wouldn't exactly mind or make the effort to call the cops if someone were to gouge his eyes out with a HIV-infected rusty fork.

I'm no drug advocate.
But I'd claim that most people would say a pedophile is about the worst thing in society, somewhere along with people who kill for fun or torture pets for amusement.

At least you can cure a drug addict.
How do you cure someone whose urges to screw children wont go away even with chemical castration?

[MoonShadow]

How do you cure someone whose urges to screw children wont go away even with chemical castration?

Who are you arguing with, and why are we still talking about this crap?  If you want to discuss CP and debate it's virtues and vices, start your own thread.  It will make deleting it much easier on us mods.

Until then, this stuff is off-topic.  Way off topic.

[Jack of Diamonds]

Someone was comparing it to heroin above. They are both illegal in most countries.

[MoonShadow]

Someone was comparing it to heroin above. They are both illegal in most countries.

And it has been pointed out that the two are not comparable despite both being illegal in most countries.  One is 'malum prohibitum' (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/malum+prohibitum) and the other is 'malum in se' (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/malum%20in%20se).  They don't belong in the same context.

[Jack of Diamonds]

That's the point. A junkie shooting himself up with coke or a hippie just having a few joints is victimless (though coercion, death and extortion is often a part of producing 'harder' drugs due to the massive profit margins due to illegality -> cycle)

I don't mind if some guy buys pot on Silk Road for bitcoins. If they buy CP I wouldn't want anything to do with them & would hope an undercover busts them eventually (though a very paranoid pedo might be hard to catch).

[FatherMcGruder]

http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6232.0

The CP tangent belongs there.

[coretechs]

The Silk Road criminal complaint references this thread -  http://www.scribd.com/doc/172764080/Ulbricht-Criminal-Complaint  (page 25)

Post #71 quotes a deleted post by a user "altoid" referenced in the complaint.  I wonder if the thought experiment discussions in this thread inspired the creation of the Silk Road...