What is the acceptable level of pre-minted coins?

[zby]

There are numerous accusations that this or that coin is a scam - because authors preminted too much coins (for example: https://twitter.com/flibbr/status/323718244210982912 "PPCoin is a premined scam coin~King has mined more coins in 1st week than all time since: http://bit.ly/10bPYvy" ).  But many (if not all) alt-coins had some coins minted by the authors before public announcements.  I don't see that necessarily bad - because the authors need to put a lot of work into the coding, websites and stuff.  So what is the public opinion about what is the acceptable level of pre-minted coins?

And what if the authors setup a foundation, give it all the preminted coins and then sell them to fund the project?

[1714871470]

1714871470

[1714871470]

1714871470

[1714871470]

1714871470

[drawingthesun]

Acceptable level: 0

Satoshi only started mining after public announcement, and this was after talking about the concept for a while.

If a founder mines after public announcement they might have a situation where someone else mines more than them, but the founder is likely to mine 24 hours a day forever until he declares their own coin dead, and if the coin is viable then then are going to become very wealthy.

All pre-mining does is ensure you never get a real chance at super wealth because you were to greedy to begin with. If your coin is truly a good thing for the world, this will eventually show and your relentless mining will pay off, no need for a pre-mine and you gain trust and confidence in your currency. And remember, confidence in a currency eventually leads to its value.

[VforVictory]

There are numerous accusations that this or that coin is a scam - because authors preminted too much coins (for example: https://twitter.com/flibbr/status/323718244210982912 "PPCoin is a premined scam coin~King has mined more coins in 1st week than all time since: http://bit.ly/10bPYvy" ).  But many (if not all) alt-coins had some coins minted by the authors before public announcements.  I don't see that necessarily bad - because the authors need to put a lot of work into the coding, websites and stuff.  So what is the public opinion about what is the acceptable level of pre-minted coins?

And what if the authors setup a foundation, give it all the preminted coins and then sell them to fund the project?

Well, part of what secures PPC is PoS...which requires a decent amount of aged coins, and since it's already prone to ASICs..

[crazy_rabbit]

I'd say maybe a thousand, depending on what the total coin number is and how they got minted. You could after all announce your coin in the middle of the night, start mining like crazy and by morning already have a thousand coins, so.

[drawingthesun]

I'd say maybe a thousand, depending on what the total coin number is and how they got minted. You could after all announce your coin in the middle of the night, start mining like crazy and by morning already have a thousand coins, so.

A founder already has a advantage, they can get together a lot of mining hardware before they announce the coin. Then after announcement they can gradually add more power as network difficulty rises, eating a decent chunk of the mined coins for a long period of time (use less hardware as difficulty is lower and keep adding power to maintain mining of coins at a steady rate, perhaps 25%) If the coin is viable a founder will gain immense wealth, but for the coin to be viable pre-mining should be 0 for faith and confidence in the coin and the founder. A lack of confidence in the founder may lead to a lack of confidence in the coin.

Confidence and faith is required in ALL crypto-currencys for a crypto-currency to gain and maintain value.

[Shad3dOne]

42.

Once you do know what the question actually is, you'll know what the answer means...

[mr_random]

That Flibbr guy is a huge troll. I've told him in btc-e chat there are 18.5 million PPCoins in circulation, not 2 billion and he goes ok. 1 hour later... '2 billion PPCoins! Who wants to buy a coin with that many!!' etc.

His main aim is to trash talk PPCoin. And PPCoin wasn't premined. There were a large amount of coins mined in the first day by everyone that took part but that was after the PPCoin announcement and people were given notice. That guy should also be careful of the claims he airs on twitter which could be construed as defamation of character, I'm surprised he is dumb enough to make such remarks whilst representing a business.

At the end of the day, every coin has a ton of early miners with a huge amount of coins.

[chriswen]

It's okay we need some FUD on btc-e.  You know at the same time there are so many people pumping PPC.  Bringing in all the noobs to invest in it when it is quite clear it is just a pump and dump.

[jhd]

acceptable is 0 preminted

[Sunny King]

Isn't flibbr supposedly supporting ppcoin last week? I wonder how did he change from accepting ppcoin in his marketplace to spreading FUD on ppcoin.

People should really do some research. There are a lot of false accusations thrown around on the web just because they feel their precious coin is threatened somehow by ppcoin.

ppcoin was pre-announced on August 10, 2012 in

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=99735.0;all

block chain officially started on August 19, 2012 in

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=101820.0

That's 9 days of notice to the public before release, and announced right here on the most populated cryptocurrency forum, not in some obscure place. Check out all the other altcoins, I bet you would find that we had the most fair launch of all altcoins, with 0 premine (even genesis block has 0 mint), 0 taxation. Difficulty started at 256, unlike many other altcoins which were started with very low difficulty. Adjustment is continuous, which means there were a lot less number of low difficulty blocks.

I don't know if flibbr is just being fooled by propaganda on the web, hope he would realize this by now.

[RodeoX]

Zero

[Buffer Overflow]

12 million if you deploy "trusted nodes" and setup a "Coin Protection Fund"

 


~BCX~

Well, well. Long time no see..

[stdset]

Again, PPC was not premineed at all. It was announced well before it's start. I personally mined several blocks among the first 20 blocks of the chain. I was just reading this forum and PPC appeared much more interesting and different for me than all other altcoins.

[DarkHyudrA]

Only the genesis block

[collapse]

Bitcoin block 32255 Diff 1:
http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000984f962134a7291e3693075ae03e521f0ee33378ec30a334d860034b

1,612,750 mined BTC

The problem is the concept of mining. mining what? bits?

Bits are not finite, no reason for mining activity. Constrains in some people the power, early adopter or tech-"bank". Like banks constrains the new money in credit, the power of new money.
The only problem is,  money is not a company. It just a confidence institution,...,nowdays.

For this reason, mining have no sense. I prefer an activity method with aleatory inflation between network members.
Low number of members, low inflation, a few coins.
High number of members, more "inflation", more coins.

The only reason of bad "money", it's state persecution of "money culture".

[MashRinx]

Bitcoin block 32255 Diff 1:
http://blockexplorer.com/block/00000000984f962134a7291e3693075ae03e521f0ee33378ec30a334d860034b

1,612,750 mined BTC

The problem is the concept of mining. mining what? bits?

Bits are not finite, no reason for mining activity. Constrains in some people the power, early adopter or tech-"bank". Like banks constrains the new money in credit, the power of new money.
The only problem is,  money is not a company. It just a confidence institution,...,nowdays.

For this reason, mining have no sense. I prefer an activity method with aleatory inflation between network members.
Low number of members, low inflation, a few coins.
High number of members, more "inflation", more coins.

The only reason of bad "money", it's state persecution of "money culture".

Huh?  Do you understand the relationship of mining and confirming of blocks on the network?  The block reward is an early incentive of miners that decreases to zero over time.