Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Its About Sharing]

I stand correct, the SR point is so '2011ish, everybody understands that BTC is not "heavily influenced" by illegal activity, that's a drop in the ocean, what drives BTC is the hope it will be valued higher in the future.

Let's use a different word , more suitable . Greed

I do see the word "greed" come up a lot when talking BTC. And of course the word "hoarding."

But what is wrong with the words "saving" and "store of value"? In a sense we are talking the same thing (though clearly not always.)
What is wrong with moving money (e.g. USD) created by a central bank and used to fund wars (since the war tax thing didn't go over well) into something else?

To have a money that doesn't penalize saving and is not centrally controlled is a nice step forward (before Star Trek like "monetary use"...)

[phoenix1]

4 week update - denial, sat on its ass, bleeding...

squiggly line = price, open circles = vol.

Bubbles and crayons ... love 'em sarc 

[Its About Sharing]

Waking up to see this ...another completely failed rally attempt... I think there might be some panic today
60's on their way soon ... have to say, I didn't think it would happen so quickly
What do you think Rampion and IAS ?

I said this yesterday, think I was day off.  

A move up to 86 or so and then a bit of selling to bring things back down is possible. That will then create a nice spinning top candle. Some indecision for a day or two and then continue with the down trend.

I hope quoting myself isn't too egocentric in appearance. At least IAS doesn't talk about himself in the 3rd person... oops...  

Seriously, what we are seeing is quite clear and a few of us have mention it - All rallies are being sold into. Once the walls are built on the buy side they are being sold into.
The danger lies in when those walls are not quite rebuilt and then sold into. When that happens be very very very careful not to go long!

But we all know this can change on a dime, so even though many of us here are short to mid term bearish, it is wise to be careful and not ignorant...

And what do you think? You have had some good points as I recall...

[niothor]

I stand correct, the SR point is so '2011ish, everybody understands that BTC is not "heavily influenced" by illegal activity, that's a drop in the ocean, what drives BTC is the hope it will be valued higher in the future.

Let's use a different word , more suitable . Greed

I do see the word "greed" come up a lot when talking BTC. And of course the word "hoarding."

But what is wrong with the words "saving" and "store of value"? In a sense we are talking the same thing (though clearly not always.)
What is wrong with moving money (e.g. USD) created by a central bank and used to fund wars (since the war tax thing didn't go over well) into something else?

To have a money that doesn't penalize saving and is not centrally controlled is a nice step forward (before Star Trek like "monetary use"...)

Let me tell you why I'm kind of against hoarding...
Not because some economical model or economic school or god knows what

It's because some people think , there are only 21m bitcoins.  According to glabal market bla bla bla..... , price should be 60k usd let's say.
But if we stash 10mils away , wouldn't the price be 120K?

Of course there are a few , a x% , but enough to annoy me.

It's because of people who misuse even a great idea just for their personal wealth instead of helping it out that I slowly lose faith in human society.

[Rampion]

I stand correct, the SR point is so '2011ish, everybody understands that BTC is not "heavily influenced" by illegal activity, that's a drop in the ocean, what drives BTC is the hope it will be valued higher in the future.

Let's use a different word , more suitable . Greed

Yeah, I also discussed with you about how "important" was SR in BTC's economy compared to pure speculation, right?

And if I don't remember it wrong we reached the common conclusion that both BTC and fiat economy are driven by speculation, there's no other business comparable to it, correct?

Yeah , too bad SR it's getting affected by the price madness .
I mean , it's normal on bitcointalk to talk all about prices , but recently silkroad has been infected too.
I'm only for two months or so here but on sr forums for far far longer.

And recently people started to change there , I mean common, 20-30 posts about price and even investment when there were 1-2 /month?
Greed can even affect junkies

You can open 13000 stores or  get 4000 restaurants to accept bitcoins , if there are no buyers cause people are only trading hoping to enlarge their stash , there is no economy.

Well, that's the eternal discussion between keynesian and austrian economists. Keynesians despise a currency like gold (or BTC), because for them money is just a "commonly shared illusion" that serves a very concrete purpose, which is moving the economy through spending.

The worst enemy for Keynesian is deflation (as the one that happened in the USA in the great depression), where prices go down while "the money go up", which leads to hoarding and a halt in the consumer economy (nobody buying today because tomorrow they will be able to buy more, wash rinse and repeat). For a Keynesian, that's the worst possible scenario, one that leads to "the most painful recession".

For the austrian economists, the worst enemy is inflation, as they consider it a way for the Govs/Central Banks to "seize" people savings, which is a quite accurate description of what inflation is. Austrian economists do not see anything wrong with "hoarding", and they call it "saving".

Obviously the Keynesians economists won the battle (for now), and are very proud that their "techniques" (Government spending, inflation, etc.) were used to "heal" most of the recurrent crisis so typical in the capitalist system (expansion -> contraction, wealth spreading -> wealth concentration; wash rinse and repeat).

[pennywise]

It's because of people who misuse even a great idea just for their personal wealth instead of helping it out that I slowly lose faith in human society.

I disagree with your thinking. It is not the solution to force people into altruism, nor to expect them to so behave.

The real solution is to create a system that incorporates selfish human nature and functions well with it. I think Bitcoin is very close to that kind of solution and that is why I expect it to function in spite of hoarding (and perhaps even because of it).

If Bitcoin will need some altruistic help to survive, than it is better that its idea perishes and is replaced with newer, better one. I have spoken.

[lucas.sev]

I covered all my shorts yesterday, but have now re-opened them plus some, so I am putting my money where my mouth is in case anyone wants to call me on that. And by short I mean negative Bitcoins, not just sitting in fiat.

What is negative Bitcoins? I always thought that short means sit on fiat waiting to increase bitcoin position later as they fall in price

[niothor]

It's because of people who misuse even a great idea just for their personal wealth instead of helping it out that I slowly lose faith in human society.

I disagree with your thinking. It is not the solution to force people into altruism, nor to expect them to so behave.

The real solution is to create a system that incorporates selfish human nature and functions well with it. I think Bitcoin is very close to that kind of solution and that is why I expect it to function in spite of hoarding (and perhaps even because of it).

If Bitcoin will need some altruistic help to survive, than it is better that its idea perishes and is replaced with newer, better one. I have spoken.

Yeah I know how reality works , but I feel sory for the poor golden goose.

[phoenix1]

I covered all my shorts yesterday, but have now re-opened them plus some, so I am putting my money where my mouth is in case anyone wants to call me on that. And by short I mean negative Bitcoins, not just sitting in fiat.

What is negative Bitcoins? I always thought that short means sit on fiat waiting to increase bitcoin position later as they fall in price

I mean leveraged short CFD's ... I make fiat when the price goes down. To me holding BTC is long, holding fiat is 'flat'. 'Short' means either selling borrowed BTC or a CFD (or ETF  )

[Rampion]

Waking up to see this ...another completely failed rally attempt... I think there might be some panic today
60's on their way soon ... have to say, I didn't think it would happen so quickly
What do you think Rampion and IAS ?

Well, I had a bid at $71ish that wasn't filled for a few cents (unfortunately, the bounce from $72 was very profitable for those who caught it), and I pulled it. Didn't catch it the first time, I won't be trying to catch a falling knife for the second time in the $70s for sure.

I may play a bounce in the $60s, but with a smallish position. Its risky.

I will for sure play the bounce from the $50ish with significant money, that its going to be nice action indeed.

I still see too much denial for the very bottom to be close, but it's also true that these forums are über-bullish by nature (its bitcointalk.org), so I don't really know how good indicator they are.

[lucas.sev]

I covered all my shorts yesterday, but have now re-opened them plus some, so I am putting my money where my mouth is in case anyone wants to call me on that. And by short I mean negative Bitcoins, not just sitting in fiat.

What is negative Bitcoins? I always thought that short means sit on fiat waiting to increase bitcoin position later as they fall in price

I mean leveraged short CFD's ... I make fiat when the price goes down. To me holding BTC is long, holding fiat is 'flat'. 'Short' means selling borrowed BTC or a CFD (or ETF  )

Where do you trade these instruments?

[wopwop]

So far I've made 10k$ by shorting this baby

[Jaroslaw]

i will dump 7k btc

[niothor]

Jaroslaw posting , the price going down right?

[Jaroslaw]

Jaroslaw posting , the price going down right?

yes because i will dump 7k btc today

[wopwop]

Jaroslaw posting , the price going down right?

yes because i will dump 7k btc today

i can confirm jalosraw that he will dump

but things are looking bullish as investors are coming into the markets again so i'm putting my money where my mouth is and buy, it will go up from here

[kickinyou]

under 70s in under 30min, is this thread not a wall tracker ?

[bitcodo]

I covered all my shorts yesterday, but have now re-opened them plus some, so I am putting my money where my mouth is in case anyone wants to call me on that. And by short I mean negative Bitcoins, not just sitting in fiat.

What is negative Bitcoins? I always thought that short means sit on fiat waiting to increase bitcoin position later as they fall in price

I mean leveraged short CFD's ... I make fiat when the price goes down. To me holding BTC is long, holding fiat is 'flat'. 'Short' means selling borrowed BTC or a CFD (or ETF  )

Where do you trade these instruments?

I short on plus500; opend(sold) yesterday at 80, will close it now @72; 1:4

[Jaroslaw]

under 70s in under 30min, is this thread not a wall tracker ?

it will take me a lot longer than 30minutes to get 7k btc on gox but price will fall today

[lucas.sev]

Jaroslaw posting , the price going down right?

yes because i will dump 7k btc today

i can confirm jalosraw that he will dump

but things are looking bullish as investors are coming into the markets again so i'm putting my money where my mouth is and buy, it will go up from here

are you Lech?