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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26403147 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
figmentofmyass
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June 20, 2015, 09:51:15 PM

seems the poll is heavily leaning bullish..... makes me think the opposite will happen.
rjclarke2000
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June 20, 2015, 09:53:38 PM

I am thinking some rollercoaster exciting and emotional .......sideways action
ChartBuddy
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June 20, 2015, 09:57:16 PM

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tarmi
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June 20, 2015, 09:58:53 PM
Last edit: June 20, 2015, 10:13:24 PM by tarmi

about bfx and growing usd swaps...this is interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/315ks5/daily_discussion_thursday_april_02_2015/cpywuly


"In current system, USD swaps are only taken out if you open a position more than you actually have in underlying. Say you have $100 in underlying, you can open up to $100 in a long position without borrowing USD. You also don't show up in USD swaps stats yet, because you haven't borrowed anything. If someone is trying to figure out how many people are in long positions in Margin Trading, they can't tell that you've added $100 long.

OK, so moving on past your underlying. At $101, you take $1 of USD swap. What happens if a thousand traders do the same thing at $101, with same $100 underlying each? There'd only be $1K in USD swaps total, but there's $100K in long positions not visible. OK so basically there's no upper bound in how many not-visible long positions there could be. Only thing you can do is guess out of your ass at average leverage ratio.

However, we can know the lower bound of how many not-visible long positions there are. BFX max leverage is 1:3.33, or 30% initial margin requirement. Meaning, if you have $100 in underlying, max you can open in long positions is $333.33. Out of the $333.33 total, 30% ($100) is your underlying, 70% ($233.33) is how much you've borrowed in USD swaps. That ratio of 30%/70% = 42% btw.

So if we have $25M in borrowed USD swaps, the case where there is the least number of not-visible positions that are funded by sufficient underlying, is if every position was leveraged to max. Then there are an additional 42% of not-visible (sufficiently funded by underlying) longs on top of $25M. That's another $10.5M. So $25 + $10.5 = $35.5M total long positions in this minimum case.

So, you can start guessing average margin ratio that's more realistic than everybody being max-leveraged. Say that the average of leverage positions is at 1:2. This would be like if you have $100, borrow another $100 for total $200 in long position. Half and half. Applying this to $25M USD swaps would be another $25M in underlying-funded long positions. $50M in total long positions.

Compare this the old system. The stat of $31M in old system meant exactly $31M in long positions were being taken in BFX margin trading. Back then, didn't matter if you had underlying or not, if you had $100 and opened $100 in longs, you'd still show up on USD swaps +$100.

As such, I say that it's a certainty that we're above old ATH of long positions. Probably by quite a bit.
"

...



So those USD swap numbers are positions that must be closed at some point. we are talking about 30 mil atm.

That supernova I was talking about earlier will be epic !
fishy91
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June 20, 2015, 09:59:36 PM

seems the poll is heavily leaning bullish..... makes me think the opposite will happen.

Historically speaking the highest poll vote is more often wrong than right. If the top vote is for going up >300 then it will probably either go up less than that, sideways, or down.
marky89
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June 20, 2015, 10:04:06 PM

just follow LTC. this thing is gonna moon.
entomology
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June 20, 2015, 10:15:37 PM

just follow LTC. this thing is gonna moon.

will become incredible, imaging this coin falling from 3x.xx dollar to 1.xx, so it can also from 1.xx up to 3x.xx. gonna be crazy.
trashman43
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June 20, 2015, 10:18:55 PM

seems the poll is heavily leaning bullish..... makes me think the opposite will happen.

Historically speaking the highest poll vote is more often wrong than right. If the top vote is for going up >300 then it will probably either go up less than that, sideways, or down.

yeah, usually most people are wrong. it's the same often when you look at forex commitment of traders -- kind of like a bfx swaps for forex. most retail traders are always on the wrong side of the trade.
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June 20, 2015, 10:31:15 PM

seems the poll is heavily leaning bullish..... makes me think the opposite will happen.

Historically speaking the highest poll vote is more often wrong than right. If the top vote is for going up >300 then it will probably either go up less than that, sideways, or down.

yeah, usually most people are wrong. it's the same often when you look at forex commitment of traders -- kind of like a bfx swaps for forex. most retail traders are always on the wrong side of the trade.

30 million dollars of retail? Like the 10,000 coins on the bidside is retail? Smiley
ssmc2
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June 20, 2015, 10:31:45 PM

Hmm starting to look like we might dip back into the 23x's before the next step up...
entomology
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June 20, 2015, 10:40:05 PM

Hmm starting to look like we might dip back into the 23x's before the next step up...

pump started
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June 20, 2015, 10:45:31 PM

Regarding the bullish poll:
Yeah but the poll was set when the price was flying upwards. That's over now and people might have changed their opinions. I did anyway, I no longer believe we will be above $300 within two weeks.
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June 20, 2015, 10:57:11 PM

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Malin Keshar
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June 20, 2015, 11:00:18 PM

just follow LTC. this thing is gonna moon.

it is just a pump because of the incoming halving. wait some weeks and see it struggling to be above $1.

LTC won't cause BTC to go up
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June 20, 2015, 11:48:50 PM

just follow LTC. this thing is gonna moon.

it is just a pump because of the incoming halving. wait some weeks and see it struggling to be above $1.

LTC won't cause BTC to go up

Sideways all summer, see you in September.
Fatman3001
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June 20, 2015, 11:51:06 PM

about bfx and growing usd swaps...this is interesting.

https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/315ks5/daily_discussion_thursday_april_02_2015/cpywuly


"In current system, USD swaps are only taken out if you open a position more than you actually have in underlying. Say you have $100 in underlying, you can open up to $100 in a long position without borrowing USD. You also don't show up in USD swaps stats yet, because you haven't borrowed anything. If someone is trying to figure out how many people are in long positions in Margin Trading, they can't tell that you've added $100 long.

OK, so moving on past your underlying. At $101, you take $1 of USD swap. What happens if a thousand traders do the same thing at $101, with same $100 underlying each? There'd only be $1K in USD swaps total, but there's $100K in long positions not visible. OK so basically there's no upper bound in how many not-visible long positions there could be. Only thing you can do is guess out of your ass at average leverage ratio.

However, we can know the lower bound of how many not-visible long positions there are. BFX max leverage is 1:3.33, or 30% initial margin requirement. Meaning, if you have $100 in underlying, max you can open in long positions is $333.33. Out of the $333.33 total, 30% ($100) is your underlying, 70% ($233.33) is how much you've borrowed in USD swaps. That ratio of 30%/70% = 42% btw.

So if we have $25M in borrowed USD swaps, the case where there is the least number of not-visible positions that are funded by sufficient underlying, is if every position was leveraged to max. Then there are an additional 42% of not-visible (sufficiently funded by underlying) longs on top of $25M. That's another $10.5M. So $25 + $10.5 = $35.5M total long positions in this minimum case.

So, you can start guessing average margin ratio that's more realistic than everybody being max-leveraged. Say that the average of leverage positions is at 1:2. This would be like if you have $100, borrow another $100 for total $200 in long position. Half and half. Applying this to $25M USD swaps would be another $25M in underlying-funded long positions. $50M in total long positions.

Compare this the old system. The stat of $31M in old system meant exactly $31M in long positions were being taken in BFX margin trading. Back then, didn't matter if you had underlying or not, if you had $100 and opened $100 in longs, you'd still show up on USD swaps +$100.

As such, I say that it's a certainty that we're above old ATH of long positions. Probably by quite a bit.
"

...



So those USD swap numbers are positions that must be closed at some point. we are talking about 30 mil atm.

That supernova I was talking about earlier will be epic !

Bullish!
ChartBuddy
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June 20, 2015, 11:57:10 PM

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ChartBuddy
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June 21, 2015, 12:57:09 AM

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JerryCurlzzz
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June 21, 2015, 01:04:03 AM

Sideways all summer, see you in September.

What makes you think that? My thinking has been that the breakout this month of BTC and LTC are (hopefully) signalling the return of volatility to these markets.

just follow LTC. this thing is gonna moon.

it is just a pump because of the incoming halving. wait some weeks and see it struggling to be above $1.

LTC won't cause BTC to go up

All I know is that alts have been pumpy for months now. And LTC lead BTC on every leg of this recent rally. Much bigger gains than BTC too. So maybe it's just a pump and dump for the halving... but we will see.
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June 21, 2015, 01:14:10 AM

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