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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26371758 times)
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June 08, 2021, 11:03:20 PM


I want money, The Flying Lizards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVuSYUNAekc
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June 08, 2021, 11:18:28 PM

Just got home from my second printing attempt, tweeked the settings and added a raft, this time it seems to have worked, cleaned it but was to tired to snip the supports and cure it, will do that tomorrow.





Good night guys and bots.
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June 08, 2021, 11:19:22 PM

How do we feel about this then?

BlockFi just gathered up $50 million to lend to bitcoin and ethereum holders who don’t want to cash out (yet)

Quote
Currently, BlockFi allows investors to take out a loan as high as $10 million using either bitcoin or ethereum as collateral.

Just like lending on Bitfinex, it's all about how much risk you want to take that the platform itself doesn't go under.

You can make somewhere around 1% or so per year on your BTC lending to shorts. But if Bitfinex goes the way of many of the exchanges, then you lose all of your money.

I was listening to an episode of "What Bitcoin Did" while out running the other day and noted that BlockFi is one of its sponsors (they offer fiat loans to borrowers with btc as collateral and also interest-bearing bitcoin accounts). I thought there had been some discussion on these hallowed pages about BlockFi in the past, or perhaps it was something similar, but a quick search came up with only the above discussion.  Which led me to have a few questions...

1. keeping in mind the obvious mantra of 'not your keys, not your coins' and considering the risk of such DeFi groups going under, I was wondering what WOers think of putting a small percentage of your coins into such an interest bearing account?

2. does Elwar think BlockFi or similar entities are now more reliable now that three years have passed?

3. wtf happened to Rosewater Foundation?

I'm far from convinced but it would be nice to get my coins working for me (in terms of increasing their number) instead of just sitting there looking good (and increasing in fiat terms but not in number). But the thought of not having my coins' keys sends me into a cold sweat....
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June 08, 2021, 11:41:38 PM

M. Saylor move...wow, but they are SENIOR notes and HIGH YIELD (aka "junk") at 6.125% interest.
6.125% interest on 500mil is 30.625 mil yearly interest. MSTR has only 81 mil EBITDA.
Basically, it is an "all in" kind of move.
Senior bondholders are in a pole position to get everything the company holds in a hypothetical case of a company going bankrupt...for example by not being able to service it's debts.

Next earnings report will be not good:
"The Tysons Corner, Virginia-based company said in a filing Monday that it’s taking a roughly $284.5 million charge during its next earnings report due to losses related to fluctuations in the price of the digital asset. That amounts to more than the company’s cumulative earnings since 2011."

Hopefully, WS would treat it as one-off.
This is potentially dangerous for the long term company survival, UNLESS he has some ace up his sleeve, and maybe he has, at least i hope so.
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June 08, 2021, 11:50:01 PM

How do we feel about this then?

BlockFi just gathered up $50 million to lend to bitcoin and ethereum holders who don’t want to cash out (yet)

Quote
Currently, BlockFi allows investors to take out a loan as high as $10 million using either bitcoin or ethereum as collateral.

Just like lending on Bitfinex, it's all about how much risk you want to take that the platform itself doesn't go under.

You can make somewhere around 1% or so per year on your BTC lending to shorts. But if Bitfinex goes the way of many of the exchanges, then you lose all of your money.

I was listening to an episode of "What Bitcoin Did" while out running the other day and noted that BlockFi is one of its sponsors (they offer fiat loans to borrowers with btc as collateral and also interest-bearing bitcoin accounts). I thought there had been some discussion on these hallowed pages about BlockFi in the past, or perhaps it was something similar, but a quick search came up with only the above discussion.  Which led me to have a few questions...

1. keeping in mind the obvious mantra of 'not your keys, not your coins' and considering the risk of such DeFi groups going under, I was wondering what WOers think of putting a small percentage of your coins into such an interest bearing account?

2. does Elwar think BlockFi or similar entities are now more reliable now that three years have passed?

3. wtf happened to Rosewater Foundation?

I'm far from convinced but it would be nice to get my coins working for me (in terms of increasing their number) instead of just sitting there looking good (and increasing in fiat terms but not in number). But the thought of not having my coins' keys sends me into a cold sweat....

There has been a more recent discussion about BlockFi.

Saylor proposes that no Bitcoin hodler will ever need to sell. They can just get a loan at 4% annual interest on their bitcoin holdings which is better than inflation while you still have your underlying bitcoins for when you pay off the fiat loan (which is likely worth a lot more).

Makes sense. Still risky though. He says to only take a loan and put it into something that will likely gain in value more than the interest rate.
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June 08, 2021, 11:59:54 PM
Last edit: June 09, 2021, 08:47:57 AM by JayJuanGee
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DO note that anyone with even a wimpier 0.1% of BTC is way better off (in that portion of his/her portfolio) than almost anyone else.  

History is surely no guarantee of future performance, even though historically speaking, holding any bitcoin for any time in its history has been profitable (except for the past 4 months). In other words, our current price of $33.6k is higher than any historical bitcoin price, except for the past 4 month.

Regular individuals have investment funds that vary between $1k and $10 million, so .1% could still add up to decent quantity of allocation for those who are in the higher endowed arenas, and maybe there becomes quite a bit more justification for smaller level investors (let's say anyone below $100k) to be more tolerant of more aggressive percentages of their investment allocations in fewer asset classes - and fewer justifications to diversify beyond perhaps 10 asset classes probably even fewer asset classes, if your whole investment portfolio is less than something like $20k.

I look at my own investment history of maybe around 35 years, and I see the first 10 or more years as having a lot of what seems to be punching into the air and some difficulties in really building a decently sized investment portfolio.. - and maybe I can blame it on NOT receiving any kind of inheritance or financial help from rich acquaintances/family (maybe most people are on their own in that regard?), but there is almost a level of patheticness in the size of my investment portfolio in those first 10 years, even though I proclaimed to have been building it and building it during that time, but I also recall having hardly any diversity in my investment portfolio for well over 10 years because so frequently I felt that there would have been quite a bit of dilution to attempt to divide up my investment portfolio, but there were no kinds of investments that I held were so easy to get into and out of as bitcoin either  (so surely if shitcoins are actually nearly as easy as bitcoin to get into and out of, I am not going to even go there in terms of addressing that issue of newbies getting purged from even being able to build a meaningful base because so many shitcoins likely tempt so many newbies, young investors and those with little capital to put too much of their principle at risk, so they might never build principle that ever graduates their investment holdings to an above mediocre status in terms of value).

I got lucky, bought from 2014 - 2020, sold a bunch in 2017 and 2021.  

Maybe that is why I like you so much, Oro.. even while disagreeing with your gold inclinations in terms of your considering yourself as lucky in so many regards, and personally I feel the same way about myself.  Many of us know that expression that luck is where preparation meets opportunity, so each of us likely had some preparations in terms of experiencing our various kinds of luck, so just being in a kind of right place at the right time meant that we had to have already been dabbling a bit in something related to bitcoin to be able to recognize a kind of opportunity that was available and also to be able to act upon it.

For me, I had been dabbling so much with various kinds of relatively inferior investments, and probably my tweaking around with those systems caused me to be in a position to find, notice and be receptive to getting involved in BTC by the time that I started buying in late 2013.

One funny angle remains that I can recall being quite enthusiastic about telling friends and acquaintances about bitcoin starting in late 2014 - but so many seemed to feel sorry for me during that time and probably even up until late 2016 for my having letting them know that my BTC holdings had been quite a bit in the red for a while during that time and even arguably into 2016, and then feeling sorry for me for having had spent so much time "playing around" with BTC including studying the matter and creating trading systems, and even when my BTC holdings began to become more profitable by the time early 2017 came, there were still some concerns expressed by others that I was not using my resources very well in terms of investing into BTC and NOT having a whole hell of a lot to show for it... so there is some luck with my continuing in a kind of BTC "stick-with-it-ness" during that period of time. .. although I will admit that I did start to get quite a bit more cocky about my BTC holdings and systems by the time mid-2016 came - even though my holdings could not really be argued to be much more than flat (at least they were not in the red anymore), and even though in BTC we had some pretty decent challenges in late 2016 starting from about August or so and lasting several months due to the 119k BTC that were supposedly hacked from Bitfinex and dropped the BTC price from the mid $700s down to $500 and then kind of got stuck in the lower $600s for a while before creeping back up in price, and I did continue to increase my bits of cockiness during that time as the BTC price was recovering from that Bitfinex purported "hackening" situation.. even though the road was not clear and deep on the inside I also considered myself as lucky to not get shaken in any kind of meaningful or material way.

1% is meaningful when that magically made it to nearly 4% (ahh, that would be the tranches that I sold near the ATHs).  

I will leave you to your own calculations regarding that assessment of what you purport to be meaningful.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy    Tongue

I have cashed out a bunch, but still HODL way more than the Average Joe.  Even if a wimpy 1% way less than the Average Joe W. Observer.

Well, regarding HODLing more than the Average Joe, that's a pretty damned low bar.  #justsaying.

Regarding the HODLings of the average WO, we should speculate that those HODLings gotta be a whole hell of a lot higher on average than regular peeps or even forum members as a whole..

Average WO members should be more bitcoin emphasizing and less inclined towards shitcoins, so just forget about the shitcoin HODLings, and if we are just pondering over BTC HODLings, there is probably a pretty decent sized spread in HODLings.. maybe between zero and thousands, but the average is going to be way closer to lower levels.. and really hard to know.

Some of us have proclaimed that we are not even going to admit if we have reached the new entry level number of 0.21BTC.. and of course, working our way up from there should not be a bad thing.  so maybe following would be trying to reach 1 BTC, then 2BTC then 10BTC, then 21 BTC and so forth and so forth.. and surely it is even getting more difficult to reach 1 BTC, even though Mindrust did say that he had reached 10 BTC (in March 2020) right before he sold all of them, supposedly and also he said that he had bought back 1BTC during the fall out from that purported sale.

Many of us have asserted that 10 BTC would be a decent quantity to have, and we would not necessarily stop trying to build our stash if we were to be able to reach such a stash size, and so a lot of what we do might have to do where we at in regards to a lot of our individual factors.

Actually the goal of getting to 0.21 BTC is becoming may more reachable at current prices of $33,500, so that would be a wee bit more than $7k to get to that 0.21BTC level at current prices.


Indeed my personal circumstances very different than almost anyone else's here.  I pretty much had to learn on my own, with nice help along the way.  

That does not really sound very unique.


With one exception, NONE of my friends or family are into BTC/crypto (though our son-in-law is into BTC and ETH, and fairly bigly).  1% seemed to be the "right" amount.  

That does not sound very unique, either.


Perhaps the best investment advice I ever got was:

"Buy only as much as you understand"

That was from obscure gold guy FOFOA.  And that advice has worked well for me for decades.  

I am not even sure if that was actually good investment advice.  I have heard variations of that rationale several times in order to justify why some peeps were failing/refusing to buy BTC - because they claim to NOT understand it.

Do any of us understand it?  Sure we try to reach some balance in terms of not overdoing it, but some people use such rationales in order to NOT invest at all or to invest too whimpily.

But plain old good luck has been a big piece of that.  Or His Will for those who so prefer.  

Can't fight you on that one.

I do not ever forget that.  I will never forget that: I never got here on my own.  

This is a nice place to share and steal ideas to incorporate as your own.. and it can take a while to learn or to be receptive to learning.

It's quite funny how much certain Warren Buffet principles have infiltrated into my own investment approach, but still I have been buying bitcoin and he never did get into bitcoin (at least so far and he is almost old enough to be dead, so I would not expect him to see much if any value in buying into BTC right now, even though he does seem to be a kind of guy that will be investing until he keels over.. while eating at McDonalds).... hahahaha..   Another thing about Warren Buffet is that he stays active in terms of investing and staying involved in the decisions of his investment group, and personally, I am thinking that I am not really interested to do anything like that, although I do have a project that I am still considering.. that would probably create more work on me... so maybe the fact that my theoretical project might cause more work no me, might cause me to NOT do it, even though there is some kind of desire for me to create something that allows me to potentially channel my coins (or put them to work) even beyond my death.... so not necessarily easy to create systems that can possibly be passed on and continue to live beyond the inspiration of the one who created it (in my case, somewhat hypothetically at this point).
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June 09, 2021, 12:05:57 AM

oh buddy here you come again.

would prefer to see you more often if we go back over 50k
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Last edit: June 09, 2021, 12:26:15 AM by vapourminer
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accounts). I thought there had been some discussion on these hallowed pages about BlockFi in the past, or perhaps it was something similar, but a quick search came up with only the above discussion.  Which led me to have a few questions...

1. keeping in mind the obvious mantra of 'not your keys, not your coins' and considering the risk of such DeFi groups going under, I was wondering what WOers think of putting a small percentage of your coins into such an interest bearing account?

gemini offers currently 7.4% on their pegged gemini dollar (GUSD) Earn thingie and 2.05% on the BTC version. a quick look mentions its DeFi based and you more or less assume the risk even though coinbase does vett the party used. so they say. you allocate some/all of your BTC/GUSD/whatever to Earn and let it do its thing. it can take a few days to pull it out however.

i tossed some into it to see what happens.
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June 09, 2021, 12:24:48 AM
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....
3. wtf happened to Rosewater Foundation?
.....

Always wondered that myself actually. I miss the mayor's colorful posts.
All my favorite wo bros seem to have gone bye bye.
Time marches on.
Damn I'm getting old.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciq0wlhwUVw
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June 09, 2021, 12:34:17 AM

the evening wall report


Bitcoin has bounced back towards $33kish after the last couple of sessions have been filled with heavy distribution. Significant volume towards the closing bell pushed the daily candle towards a red dragonfly formation with a support resistance zone establishing around $33.5k.

 
#dyor

4h



D

#stronghands
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June 09, 2021, 01:03:26 AM


I'm putting this trash on my ignore list for it is just waste of space. It is the only one on my ignore list currently!




Nice one ChartBuddy...

Had to merit you for that innovative demonstration of NON-bottedness.

 Wink Wink

(one bot to another... nanu nanu)...


I think this is all china.


... you might be onto something here. Looks like Musk might be kneeling down to suck Chinese Commie dick too
... Tesla was getting hammered in China until he started his anti-bitcoin tweeting

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/tesla-shares-jump-3-after-china-made-vehicle-sales-rise-29-may

Interesting, indeed.
China gave miners and traders two months time to tear down their crypto businesses, or it's going to jail for them, according to unofficial (chinese) source.
I wouldn't be too surprised if the dumping goes on until two months after the chinese mining ban announcement.

EDIT:
China was early in the game, so 4-figures are rumored by some. Too bad i can't read chinese and my hongkong buddie is occupied by working like a dog to keep his job at his US-based business office (building).

If only our local idiots could comprehend that the very fact that China is against bitcoin should be an indication for them to support bitcoin instead of harping some bs about it.
China is obviously trying to replace dollar with yuan. Bitcoin is in a way as a potential alternative, so they gang up on it first. US and rest of the West and east should support bitcoin and resist yuan.
Bitcoin and dollar do not really compete (not yet).

They (our local idiots) don't see the bigger picture yet. China will become quite a challenge, not only for the dollar, on the other hand there are implicit counter-dynamics developing, like the upcoming fail of the one-child strategy. It will stay interesting with China, and unlike in the past, nations dealing with China better think ahead of time to not get played out.
We're like a bag full of weaknesses for them, imho. Their global acting is mirroring that kind of sentiment.

*Edits in boldface

Who knows for sure about all these amorphous thoughts about the motives of one nation versus another, even though there should have been a decent amount of attention gotten from national security concerns for any country who becomes way too dependent upon goods and services being controlled out of one jurisdiction... and who knows what kinds of shenanigans happen sometimes when there might have been inadequate attention to various supply chain issues and then questions regarding whether the supply chains are really in such vulnerable states or are they being manipulated in ways to appear that they are more vulnerable than they really are.

[edited out]

1.6billion is surprising, and good to see, I wonder when all those Bitcoin ETF approval dates are.

Saylor is putting himself in a hell of a position here still I think. If the price does dump below 20k he will have to be in trouble.

His earlier debt instruments had 5 years (which would be about 4.5 years from now), and this one seems to have something like 7 years to pay back, so it would be one thing if the BTC price dumps below $20k in the short term, but when the notes start getting close to coming due, then at that point, there would need to some concern if the BTC price were still below the purchase price, such as below $20k, but seems to me to be a pretty damned good bet that BTC prices will be above his average BTC purchase prices plus the interest on any of the debt instruments.  So accordingly, if he were to get his latest BTC in the lower $30ks- let's say between $30k and $35k, then I think that the odds are pretty good for either timeline that the BTC price will be well above $35k in both 4.5 years from now, and also 7 years from now.. and surely there should be enough time to make some adjustments, but if shit is just spiraling downwardly (what are the odds?), then surely the company could be in trouble.  Of course, we do not know the future, but does not seem to be a bad bet for a company like MSTR in terms of its already existing assets, cashflow and its likely continued cashflow and other ameliorating steps that it can take in the next 4.5 years to 7 years in connection with its debt instruments.
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June 09, 2021, 02:50:23 AM

chart buddy is relentless.

and we look to be flat at 32k

It is getting late in NJ,USA

may crash in a bit.

downward ladder set  down to 21021

and dca set for Wednesday
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June 09, 2021, 03:04:25 AM
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Good night guys and bots.

nice move towards improvements in inclusivity, for sure.   Wink

How do we feel about this then?

BlockFi just gathered up $50 million to lend to bitcoin and ethereum holders who don’t want to cash out (yet)

Quote
Currently, BlockFi allows investors to take out a loan as high as $10 million using either bitcoin or ethereum as collateral.

Just like lending on Bitfinex, it's all about how much risk you want to take that the platform itself doesn't go under.

You can make somewhere around 1% or so per year on your BTC lending to shorts. But if Bitfinex goes the way of many of the exchanges, then you lose all of your money.

I was listening to an episode of "What Bitcoin Did" while out running the other day and noted that BlockFi is one of its sponsors (they offer fiat loans to borrowers with btc as collateral and also interest-bearing bitcoin accounts). I thought there had been some discussion on these hallowed pages about BlockFi in the past, or perhaps it was something similar, but a quick search came up with only the above discussion.  Which led me to have a few questions...

1. keeping in mind the obvious mantra of 'not your keys, not your coins' and considering the risk of such DeFi groups going under, I was wondering what WOers think of putting a small percentage of your coins into such an interest bearing account?

2. does Elwar think BlockFi or similar entities are now more reliable now that three years have passed?

3. wtf happened to Rosewater Foundation?

I'm far from convinced but it would be nice to get my coins working for me (in terms of increasing their number) instead of just sitting there looking good (and increasing in fiat terms but not in number). But the thought of not having my coins' keys sends me into a cold sweat....

Don't worry about it Strawbs.

Bitcoin is designed to pump forever, so you do not need to get lured into interest bearing nonsense.;.. and the vast majority of them both pay crap and they could well end up tricking you out of your coins because you failed to understand the terms of whatever bullshit contract to which you agreed.


Sure, if you just put a very small amount of your coins into such an instrument for funzies and to learn more, then probably no problem with that, but don't fool yourself into the desperate talking point that you need your bitcoin to earn interest because their appreciation is already built in...

Fuck they have appreciated way more than the 6% per year that I anticipated in 2013..  I should not have to go back and calculate, but I will if you believe that more discussion is needed... because it seems to me that you are actually seriously considering such nonsense and hopefully you are neither that desperate or you cannot figure out ways to engage in your own ongoing BTC accumulation if you feel you need more BTC beyond the overall ongoing BTC price appreciation that has historically occurred and likely to continue to happen to sufficient levels in order to be able to count on at least 12% per year (if not more) especially if you zoom out.. and none of those services are going to pay you 12% per year..

so they can fuck off.. except if you just are playing with them for funzies and you are o.k. with losing those coins.  Note that personally, I am surely not against participating in various aspects of the Bitcoin ecosystem which is part of my rationale for participating in several exchanges for the 7.5 years that I have in bitcoin.. and I have close to 10% of my stash on various exchanges and playing around with various third parties.. but consider the risks of losing those coins too.. and my coins in cold storage are way more than I need for my richie status anyhow  (referring to the near 0.21BTC stash that I may be getting close to having)..

....
3. wtf happened to Rosewater Foundation?
.....

Always wondered that myself actually. I miss the mayor's colorful posts.
All my favorite wo bros seem to have gone bye bye.
Time marches on.
Damn I'm getting old.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ciq0wlhwUVw

The puggie nerdy looking singer in that video kind of looks like what I would have imagined RF/Mayor to look like, for whatever that's worth?
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June 09, 2021, 03:21:10 AM


Edit:
Btw i wanted to know why left value is always lower than the right value? What exactly you mean by the "closest" bids and asks. Does closest mean last bid and ask?


The asks are what people are selling for, the bids are what people are wanting to buy for. Asks are always higher as otherwise, there would be a sale. Market buys and sells buy or sell from the closest first.
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