Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bad trader]

We appear to be staying in the downward channel or whatever it is.



edit: Or maybe below it, at this rate.

[ivyleague1985]

LMAO @ BTCChina order book!

https://i.imgur.com/6UjcnUF.png

I usually wouldn't say this, but so no one makes a financial decision based on that -- BTC-China orderbook is fake. These fake buy/ask walls appear every time price drops or exceeds 2k. If 2k is approached, all those asks are gone, and 10k of bids appear.

On the other hand, China has a new short time low of 1800CNY. US still hasnt pushed for new lows below $275.

True, but that has been established in the trading community for some time now. Then again, most of the numbers presented from China are fake, I mean, we are dealing with China ffs..I lived there for a few years and have some knowledge of their culture. It's all about hustling, gambling and making a quick buck. Bitcoin is perfect for that type of scheme.

it's actually hilarious to watch the buying and selling at BTCCHINA, the order book bears no resemblance to the activity at all. Bobby Lee is not even trying to hide it, lol. Good for him.

Last time we had BTC China doing that we had nice rally from 330 to 390. 2k ask wall pushed the price 20$ below just before rally started.

Nice finding. So this drop may also be an artificial dump to accumulate cheap coins and then BTC China will start the real pump soon again.

[Meuh6879]

No, not really. It's basically a feedback loop. unprofitable miners will turn off slowly and gradually the hashrate will follow the price, though there can be considerable lag.

  hum hum ... ?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty +15% since friday ... POWAAAAA

[samsonn25]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

There is overhead such as rent labour cost of miners and upkeep.

The reality is that btc mining is not profitable if the network difficulty and price stay at its present rates.

I have updated the Hardware return vs buying bitcoin spreadsheet.  The link is in my posted history if you want a copy.

I have a feeling that one reason for the low volume volitility may be  due to coin-swap and associated fallout.

I'll know when mining is no longer profitable when I get notice from knc that they are going to ship me the bonus miner I was promised (as long as I pay the shipping)

 

LOL

[LOBSTER]

No, not really. It's basically a feedback loop. unprofitable miners will turn off slowly and gradually the hashrate will follow the price, though there can be considerable lag.

  hum hum ... ?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty +15% since friday ... POWAAAAA

Difficulty up, price down. GG!

[ivyleague1985]

No, not really. It's basically a feedback loop. unprofitable miners will turn off slowly and gradually the hashrate will follow the price, though there can be considerable lag.

  hum hum ... ?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty +15% since friday ... POWAAAAA

Difficulty up, price down. GG!

GG = Good Game? Or what?

[LOBSTER]

No, not really. It's basically a feedback loop. unprofitable miners will turn off slowly and gradually the hashrate will follow the price, though there can be considerable lag.

  hum hum ... ?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty +15% since friday ... POWAAAAA

Difficulty up, price down. GG!

GG =Good Game? Or what?

Yes. Good game. Game is over. I still support the Bitcoin but it's the end of that astronomic prices.

[samsonn25]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

There is overhead such as rent labour cost of miners and upkeep.

The reality is that btc mining is not profitable if the network difficulty and price stay at its present rates.

I have updated the Hardware return vs buying bitcoin spreadsheet.  The link is in my posted history if you want a copy.

I have a feeling that one reason for the low volume volitility may be  due to coin-swap and associated fallout.

If it is not profitable, why don't miners unite each other and ration the supply? Miners behave like faithless dumpers that adds fuel to the fire. Unbelievable.

Probably because the mining equipment and electricity is not free and they need to make some money back from the capital investment??  I would guess this is part of it.

And even if equipment and electricity was FREE some miners would still be gambling that seeing the price drop they would want to sell some before it goes lower and their stash of btc becomes lower in value.

[LOBSTER]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

There is overhead such as rent labour cost of miners and upkeep.

The reality is that btc mining is not profitable if the network difficulty and price stay at its present rates.

I have updated the Hardware return vs buying bitcoin spreadsheet.  The link is in my posted history if you want a copy.

I have a feeling that one reason for the low volume volitility may be  due to coin-swap and associated fallout.

If it is not profitable, why don't miners unite each other and ration the supply? Miners behave like faithless dumpers that adds fuel to the fire. Unbelievable.

Probably because the mining equipment and electricity is not free and they need to make some money back from the capital investment??  I would guess this is part of it.

And even if equipment and electricity was FREE some miners would still be gambling that seeing the price drop they would want to sell some before it goes lower and their stash of btc becomes lower in value.

I see a huge wave of miner sales @ eBay coming. Crazy...the price makes me feeling sick

[samsonn25]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

This is true.  Assuming no capital equipment cost.

Unfortunately 99.999% of miners dont have free electricity.

[LOBSTER]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

This is true.  Assuming no capital equipment cost.

Unfortunately 99.999% of miners dont have free electricity.

Besides the evil ones who are leeching free electricity from their parents

[ivyleague1985]

Can somebody share with all of us, at what price level does BTC becomes unprofitable for the miners and they start shutting off they rigs and BTC collapses completely? Is this even possible?

At current difficulty, on 20 nm process and 10 cents per kWh, I'd guess around 200, maybe a little less...

with free electricity around 0.1 dollars i guess

There is overhead such as rent labour cost of miners and upkeep.

The reality is that btc mining is not profitable if the network difficulty and price stay at its present rates.

I have updated the Hardware return vs buying bitcoin spreadsheet.  The link is in my posted history if you want a copy.

I have a feeling that one reason for the low volume volitility may be  due to coin-swap and associated fallout.

If it is not profitable, why don't miners unite each other and ration the supply? Miners behave like faithless dumpers that adds fuel to the fire. Unbelievable.

Probably because the mining equipment and electricity is not free and they need to make some money back from the capital investment??  I would guess this is part of it.

And even if equipment and electricity was FREE some miners would still be gambling that seeing the price drop they would want to sell some before it goes lower and their stash of btc becomes lower in value.

I see a huge wave of miner sales @ eBay coming. Crazy...the price makes me feeling sick

If the price drops like this, mining equipment will be worthless on eBay as well. And don't forget eBay charges a 10% final value fee that further rips miners off.

[samsonn25]

Keep in mind this price drop is when the Chinese are still sleeping. Just wait till the commies wake up in a few hours. I think today is the day we test $250

The Chinese pushed it from 50 to 1100, they can bring it back down just as fast

[only]

[shmadz]

No, not really. It's basically a feedback loop. unprofitable miners will turn off slowly and gradually the hashrate will follow the price, though there can be considerable lag.

  hum hum ... ?

https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty +15% since friday ... POWAAAAA

Yeah, I'd suspect there are a lot of newly ordered, high efficiency miners coming on line and because of sunk cost many miners will continue to mine at a loss, for a while, until lower efficiency miners will be forced to shut down.

Here's a thought experiment:

What happens if some crypto with superior features (say Monero just for the purposes of this experiment) starts to gain market share to the point where it becomes more profitable to mine (probably already happening) - but here's the interesting part...

What if that coin decides to allow for some kind of dual-mining algorithm,  say perhaps a hard fork to allow the current mining scheme to continue, but also add sha-256 to be mined on the same node, almost like merge mining, to allow for some bonus distribution of coins?

Just a hypothetical situation, but something like this is just one more way to attack the security of the Blockchain...

(Ok, maybe cheap coins are making me a little hysterical, but still, the hash rate protects the network, but in effect the price protects or ensures the hash rate. Just something to think about)

[LOBSTER]

Keep in mind this price drop is when the Chinese are still sleeping. Just wait till the commies wake up in a few hours. I think today is the day we test $250

The Chinese pushed it from 50 to 1100, they can bring it back down just as fast

I don't think that the Chinese are dropping the price so intensive. The problem are the greedy traders + the panic sells now.

[samsonn25]

Keep in mind this price drop is when the Chinese are still sleeping. Just wait till the commies wake up in a few hours. I think today is the day we test $250

The Chinese pushed it from 50 to 1100, they can bring it back down just as fast

I don't think that the Chinese are dropping the price so intensive. The problem are the greedy traders + the panic sells now.

Could be.  And who profits the most the exchanges mostly.

Is a likely scenario, the operators of the casino only want to make juice they dont really care about how high or how low the price lands.  As long as there are enough gamblers playing.   Uhhh what a society

[esse83]

BTC360 to 1650 at BTCCHINA, still it has almost BTC130k volume today Bobby, bobby! You silly man. I love you.

[LOBSTER]

BTC360 to 1650 at BTCCHINA, still it has almost BTC130k volume today Bobby, bobby! You silly man. I love you.

That volume is crazy. Some days before we had such a small volume and now that.

[Wandererfromthenorth]

China new low.