Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[inca]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

[Sitarow]

https://twitter.com/GaltsGirl/status/564137655827316737/photo/1

hi what is the name of the wallet application thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMZ5auCMvw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YMZ5auCMvw#t=1718

[Spaceman_Spiff]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things. That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC. You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

I have paid for food with bitcoin multiple times, haven't used a rusty VW Beatle yet.  
At least now you are acknowledging that BTC can be used to pay for normal stuff, despite your derision by comparing it to plastic bottles as a would-be-money.
I think I'll be leaving the discussion at that though, don't want to spam the entire thread.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

[inca]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

Last couple.

[criptix]

so everyone accepting paypal is actually not accepting $, € or any other fiat currency?

Of course.  The currency that they accept is one thing, the means through which they receive the currency is another thing.  Last time I checked, Dell USA accepted only dollars, but you could send the dollars in one of several ways: PayPal, credit card, bank wire, old-fashioned checks, -- or BitPay.  Likewise, Dell would pay refunds only in dollars, even if you paid with BitPay.

what happens when paypal will integrate btc this year? still nobody accepting bitcoin?
they do accept bitcoin as payment, the just dont hold it.

Either PayPal will do the conversion to dollars and send dollars to the merchant, like BitPay does; or most merchants that accept payment via BitPay will not accept bitcoins through Paypal.

exactly.

for example i want to buy something outside my country:

1. i load up paypal with local currency
2. buy something online in a different currency
3. paypal processes the payment

there is actually no difference at all between what paypal does and bitpay does.

what follows is that merchants are accepting bitcoin and not only $

the thing is, most people get their salary paid in fiat. the time this changes will be the turning point

[Spaceman_Spiff]

so everyone accepting paypal is actually not accepting $, € or any other fiat currency?

Of course.  The currency that they accept is one thing, the means through which they receive the currency is another thing.  Last time I checked, Dell USA accepted only dollars, but you could send the dollars in one of several ways: PayPal, credit card, bank wire, old-fashioned checks, -- or BitPay.  Likewise, Dell would pay refunds only in dollars, even if you paid with BitPay.

what happens when paypal will integrate btc this year? still nobody accepting bitcoin?
they do accept bitcoin as payment, the just dont hold it.

Either PayPal will do the conversion to dollars and send dollars to the merchant, like BitPay does; or most merchants that accept payment via BitPay will not accept bitcoins through Paypal.

exactly.

for example i want to buy something outside my country:

1. i load up paypal with local currency
2. buy something online in a different currency
3. paypal processes the payment

there is actually no difference at all between what paypal does and bitpay does.

what follows is that merchants are accepting bitcoin and not only $

I think he would argue that the merchant doesn't accept your local currency.  It's a matter of terminology really.

[Sitarow]

[NotLambchop]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Don't be so nervous, inca.  I'll give you a heads-up before you get raided.  Just don't jerk it in public libraries like this d00d.

[criptix]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

How many pages back was THAT?

Last couple.

Ok I see. Right before my heroin comment. Well you can buy anything with bitcoins now. I know a guy bought an old oil tanker with bitcoins and set it free in the Indian Ocean. No big woop. This is hardly worth trolololing about

[JorgeStolfi]

You do realize this applies to all currencies? YEN, CNY, CAD

Dell USA, AFAIK, accepts only dollars.  Dell Brazil accepts only reals.  If you want to pay them with some other currency, you must find a way to convert them to USD or BRL, respectively, and send those to the companies.

I have used my Brazilian credit card, whose bills I pay with BRL, to pay for hotels and other stuff in the US, Europe, Japan, etc; but it was always the credict card company that exchanged my BRL for USD, EUR, JPY and deposited these to the merchants' bank accounts.  Those merchants definitely did not "accept BRL", anymore than Dell "accepts bitcoin".

[fonzie]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

[NotLambchop]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things. That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC. You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

I have paid for food with bitcoin multiple times, haven't used a rusty VW Beatle yet.  
At least now you are acknowledging that BTC can be used to pay for normal stuff, despite your derision by comparing it to plastic bottles as a would-be-money...

Of course it can.  You always could.  Just like you always could use the plastic bottles you've collected from the trash.  Caveat: with plastic bottles, you can be relatively sure how many you'll need--the refund deposit is always a nickel or dime or whatever it is.
With BTC you simply don't have that luxury of knowing--you'll be told how much you'll need at the moment of sale.  And be quick about it--the given price expires in 10 mins, if I remember right

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

That's another story, I was just saying to inca why I use the reference to child porn, because the phenomenon, although small for now, is out there, that's it.



If you really wanna go there tho, the real numbers you should look at are:
-amount of fiat money used for child porn /  all fiat around the world combined

VS

-amount of bitcoin money used for child porn / bitcoin marketcap


Of course the majority of child porn is funded with fiat, bitcoin is more unknown and its marketcap is a lot smaller. Question would be, which of the two is easier and more convenient to use for child pornographers?

[NotLambchop]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

Bitcoin filth will still try deny it, you just watch!  
Nothing is too sick for those Bitcoin perverts

[criptix]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

Question would be, which of the two is easier and more convenient to use for child pornographers?

exactly, you nailed the point. did you find the answer?

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

Yep, imagine some people buying bitcoin with localbitcoins, they might buy directly from some pedos that are trying to get rid of their filthy money .-.

[camolist]

whats with the # of trades?

barely enough in 30 minutes to fill bitcoinity

[Sitarow]

You do realize this applies to all currencies? YEN, CNY, CAD

Dell USA, AFAIK, accepts only dollars.  Dell Brazil accepts only reals.  If you want to pay them with some other currency, you must find a way to convert them to USD or BRL, respectively, and send those to the companies.

I have used my Brazilian credit card, whose bills I pay with BRL, to pay for hotels and other stuff in the US, Europe, Japan, etc; but it was always the credict card company that exchanged my BRL for USD, EUR, JPY and deposited these to the merchants' bank accounts.  Those merchants definitely did not "accept BRL", anymore than Dell "accepts bitcoin".

This discussion began with a certain someone making false statement that BTC is not accepted as payment for "normal" every day items.

My point was that it was incorrect assumption because payment processors do help merchants take payment from other currencies including BTC.
The example argued that was used did not acknowledge that even if product is priced in USD does not mean that you can't pay for it with other currencies, like CAD, BRL, CNY, YEN, BTC as long as they payment processor used by the merchant takes said payment.