Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[NotLambchop]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

Bitcoin filth will still try deny it, you just watch!  
Nothing is too sick for those Bitcoin perverts

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[criptix]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

Nobody is saying that you (or bitcoiners in general) are pedophiles, I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

quite funny when 99% of all crimes in the younger history was funded with fiat

Question would be, which of the two is easier and more convenient to use for child pornographers?

exactly, you nailed the point. did you find the answer?

[NotHatinJustTrollin]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

Yep, imagine some people buying bitcoin with localbitcoins, they might buy directly from some pedos that are trying to get rid of their filthy money .-.

[camolist]

whats with the # of trades?

barely enough in 30 minutes to fill bitcoinity

[Sitarow]

You do realize this applies to all currencies? YEN, CNY, CAD

Dell USA, AFAIK, accepts only dollars.  Dell Brazil accepts only reals.  If you want to pay them with some other currency, you must find a way to convert them to USD or BRL, respectively, and send those to the companies.

I have used my Brazilian credit card, whose bills I pay with BRL, to pay for hotels and other stuff in the US, Europe, Japan, etc; but it was always the credict card company that exchanged my BRL for USD, EUR, JPY and deposited these to the merchants' bank accounts.  Those merchants definitely did not "accept BRL", anymore than Dell "accepts bitcoin".

This discussion began with a certain someone making false statement that BTC is not accepted as payment for "normal" every day items.

My point was that it was incorrect assumption because payment processors do help merchants take payment from other currencies including BTC.
The example argued that was used did not acknowledge that even if product is priced in USD does not mean that you can't pay for it with other currencies, like CAD, BRL, CNY, YEN, BTC as long as they payment processor used by the merchant takes said payment.

[JorgeStolfi]

Additionally understand that this Analysis is of one Bitpay wallet.

Indeed, it is not known whether there are other Bitpay incoming addresses that are not included in that "wallet".

The site that tracks the "BitPay input wallet" scans the blockchain for transactions that have two or more inputs, and assumes that all the input addresses of each transaction must all belong to the same person or company.  That criterion defines clusters of addresses with same owner, that the site calls "wallets".

Periodically, Bitpay merges all the amounts that it received from customers and sends them to Bitstamp or other buyers.  The site sees those transactiions, and then identifies all the input addresses as belonging to the same owner.  Then it  is easy to tell that the owner is BitPay.  

That criterion may indeed miss some input address that is owned by Bitpay but is never combined with other known Bitpay addresses in any transaction.  However, just by looking at the addresses that were identified as Bitpays, we get 1000 to 2000 BTC per day, which matches the "1 million USD per day" that BitPay claimed to process in May 2014.   One can also find in that wallet some famous payments, such as the 0.5 M$ house bought by Josh Zerlan of BFL  and the 1 M$ downpayment by HashTrade(?) to BFL.  So, that "wallet" does seem to include most of what BitPay processes.

EDIT: The CoinJoin anonymizing service combines input addresses from different people in the same transaction, and therefore breaks that clustering criterion.  There is a huge "wallet" called "MtGOX and others"  that seems to comprise all addresses that were once used in a CoinJoin transaction.

[NotLambchop]

I wonder if the posters who keep nonchalantly referring to child pornography would kindly stop. Thanks.

I'm just saying that the thing is out there.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-10-09/bitcoin-payments-by-pedophiles-frustrate-child-porn-fight

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?
So an innocent person must always fear to be investigated by the police? Scary! Almost deterrend! I might start some information campaign to enlighten people before they get themselves into trouble
 

Also found this one:

http://www.newsmax.com/US/pedophiles-Bitcoin-payment-methods/2014/07/30/id/585723/

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/bitcoins-used-fund-online-child-porn-warns-europol-police-chief-1445608

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/bitcoin-is-implicated-in-a-clearnet-child-porn-trend

Yep, imagine some people buying bitcoin with localbitcoins, they might buy directly from some pedos that are trying to get rid of their filthy money .-.

To be fair, the child pornographers and Bitcoin child pimps--those unloading their dirty BTC--may not be pedophiles themselves.  They may not be aroused by children any more than those same children are aroused by child-raping Bitcoin perverts.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

When you said "purchase everyday things," I didn't realize you meant meth and child porn.  I stand corrected
As far as less shady stuff?  Those merchants accept dollars, not BTC.  That's why the BTC price is calculated for you at the moment of purchase from the real price.

I did mean everyday things. You said illegal items. I asked for proof. Non provided. Whatever, I'm off to do other things. Have a good day!

When was the last time you bought milk, butter or gas with bitcoin?  And I don't mean through a payment processor.

I know those coins get converted to fiat, but how is using a payment processor not 'using bitcoin to purchase things' ?  
Pretty weak comeback NLC, I expect higher quality trolling from you.

Because you're using dollar or pound  or euro  to buy things.  That's why those things are priced in dollar  or euro  or pound, and BTC price is calculated at the exact moment you initiate the transaction.
If you enjoy the game of buying BTC with your money (paying a fee for the privilege), handing that BTC to a payment processor (which also profits from the deal because not charity), which, in turn, converts BTC to real money & pays the merchant you transact with, so that you can risk your money yet again on some shady exchange while BTC price pogoes around like it does ...breathe... you be my guest, but don't expect me to take your game seriously

No, I am using bitcoin to buy stuff that has a fixed price in fiat.  Of course the exchange fees don't make this a consumer friendly option yet for most use cases.  At the moment bitcoin enthusiasts are sponsoring exchanges and payment processors in order to make orders with bitcoin.  But we are still in the bootstrapping phase, not at an end equilibrium.  If I would be able to use my bitcoins almost anywhere, it removes an argument for not holding bitcoins ("can't spend them anywhere") and use cases where it might be desirable will start popping up.  eg.  going abroad and not having to exchange your fiat currencies.  The current volatility would still stop most people from doing that, but if the fees for acquiring bitcoins are lower than fees for converting fiat money, the expected value is positive.

If I said "can't spend BTC anywhere," you would be justified in asking me to defend such a silly statement.  But since I didn't, and you tried to stuff those words into my mouth, I won't.

The problem isn't that you can't spend BTC.  You can spend anything, including rusty VW Beatles and recyclable plastic bottles.  Though recyclable plastic bottles are a far better store of value than BTC, neither one of us would suggest that they're money.  Not even if a bum agrees to take them to a redemption center and exchange them for money in exchange for a small fee or totally ripping you off.

[inca]

Don't try to justify yourself NHJT you sinister cunt, it is just pathetic. Welcome to ignore.

[Sitarow]

9:15PM EST

[fonzie]

My UK bank just froze a payment for an article I wrote on Bitcoin for the German Rosa Luxemburg Foundation, on the grounds that I was "selling Bitcoins to someone called Rosa"
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2t2px9/my_uk_bank_just_froze_a_payment_for_an_article_i/

Safello Expands To Norway And Denmark Days After UK Bank Accounts Get Closed
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2tqhr2/safello_expands_to_norway_and_denmark_days_after/

How long until Bitstamp(UK based) gets blocked completly? More or less than 2 months? Thoughts?


It´s looking pretty bad, all exchanges are about to shut down. Local Bitcoins cannot be used anymore because one could get linked to child porn. In a few months the only way to buy/sell Bitcoins will be by physically exchanging paper wallets for cash, by that time the price will probably be around 1-5$(bullish outlook).
 

They are not only blocking bank account, they are also revoking citizenships. Bitcoiners be careful!

http://uk.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-jesus-visa-application-denied-2015-1?r=US

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[JorgeStolfi]

My point was that it was incorrect assumption because payment processors do help merchants take payment from other currencies including BTC.
The example argued that was used did not acknowledge that even if product is priced in USD does not mean that you can't pay for it with other currencies, like CAD, BRL, CNY, YEN, BTC as long as they payment processor used by the merchant takes said payment.

It is not just a matter of definitions.  

Dell USA has bank accounts.  In those bank accounts there are only dollars, not JPYs or BRLs, and one can only deposit dollars in them.  dell does not have a receiving blockchain address, or a bitcoin-denominated account in some bitcoin service.  They have an account at BitPay, but they do not keep bitcoins there.  Like most merchants that "accept bitcoin", when a customer chooses to "pay with bitcoin":

* the customer is redirected to a BitPay page, and the merchant tells BitPay the price in USD;
* BitPay computes the amount of bitcoin needed and displays that to the customer;
* the customer issues a blockchain transaction request that sends the bitcoins to BitPay;
* BitPay checks whether that transaction request is valid and has propagated to enough nodes;
* Bitpay tells the merchant that the customer paid the specified USD amount;
* the merchant trusts Bitpay and tells the customer "payment received, purchase successful";
* at the end of that day, Bitpay wires the USD amount to the merchant's bank account;
* eventually the bitcoin deposit into BitPay's wallet is confirmed by the network;
* sometime later, Bitpay sells those bitcoins to replenish their USD reserves.

Note that at no time the merchant had possession of the bitcoins. 

[fonzie]

[marcus_of_augustus]

people who like to talk a lot about illegal things on the internet should be careful that it doesn't just 'appear' on their computers someday (with a knock at the door) ... things like that happen.

[Sitarow]

My point was that it was incorrect assumption because payment processors do help merchants take payment from other currencies including BTC.
The example argued that was used did not acknowledge that even if product is priced in USD does not mean that you can't pay for it with other currencies, like CAD, BRL, CNY, YEN, BTC as long as they payment processor used by the merchant takes said payment.

It is not just a matter of definitions.  

Dell USA has bank accounts.  In those bank accounts there are only dollars, not JPYs or BRLs, and one can only deposit dollars in them.  dell does not have a receiving blockchain address, or a bitcoin-denominated account in some bitcoin service.  They have an account at BitPay, but they do not keep bitcoins there.  Like most merchants that "accept bitcoin", when a customer chooses to "pay with bitcoin":

* the customer is redirected to a BitPay page, and the merchant tells BitPay the price in USD;
* BitPay computes the amount of bitcoin needed and displays that to the customer;
* the customer issues a blockchain transaction request that sends the bitcoins to BitPay;
* BitPay checks whether that transaction request is valid and has propagated to enough nodes;
* Bitpay tells the merchant that the customer paid the specified USD amount;
* the merchant trusts Bitpay and tells the customer "payment received, purchase successful";
* at the end of that day, Bitpay wires the USD amount to the merchant's bank account;
* eventually the bitcoin deposit into BitPay's wallet is confirmed by the network;
* sometime later, Bitpay sells those bitcoins to replenish their USD reserves.

Note that at no time the merchant had possession of the bitcoins.  

To be honest you are assuming that they are not keeping a % of the payment in BTC with their payment processor.

Also what is important to note is that BTC like USD,CAD,YEN,CHY,GBP and any other currency is being accepted for payment

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

people who like to talk a lot about illegal things on the internet should be careful that it doesn't just 'appear' on their computers someday (with a knock at the door) ... things like that happen.

What do you mean?

Edit: that was a weird thing to say. Why is everyone today saying such weird things?!?

[JorgeStolfi]

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?

See this post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9916541#msg9916541

SLoK is the hated admin of the BFL forum, believed to live in the Netherlands.  BFL victims identified his blockchain address and noted 11 payments from that address to the SilkRoad address.

SLoK claims that he just sold the biotcoins that he mined to a buyer that he found through LocalBitcoins.  SLoK claims that he was not aware that the address the buyer gave him was not the buyer's own, but was SilkRoads.

Whether that story is true or not, it is an example of the risks of the "anonymous" ledger.  Namely, it is "anonymous" when it shouldn't (when you need to know where you are sending the bitcoins to) and is not anonymous when it should (when others want to know what you have been buying).

[fonzie]

people who like to talk a lot about illegal things on the internet should be careful that it doesn't just 'appear' on their computers someday (with a knock at the door) ... things like that happen.

quoted

People who treaten other people in the internet should be careful too 

[fonzie]

Oh god, so this means that when people receive BTC that have been used for child porn(or terrorism) in the past, could get real problems later, due to the record keeping blockchain?

See this post

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.msg9916541#msg9916541

SLoK is the hated admin of the BFL forum, believed to live in the Netherlands.  BFL victims identified his blockchain address and noted 11 payments from that address to the SilkRoad address.

SLoK claims that he just sold the biotcoins that he mined to a buyer that he found through LocalBitcoins.  SLoK claims that he was not aware that the address the buyer gave him was not the buyer's own, but was SilkRoads.

Whether that story is true or not, it is an example of the risks of the "anonymous" ledger.  Namely, it is "anonymous" when it shouldn't (when you need to know where you are sending the bitcoins to) and is not anonymous when it should (when others want to know what you have been buying).

Interesting, thanks!