Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Fatman3001]

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff   those cute fuzzy trolls  

When I see these numbnuts....

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[Globb0]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

[Fatman3001]

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff   those cute fuzzy trolls  

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.


saying that i am very much so long on bitcoin

[elasticband]

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

Actually, the above is false. I have met people who bought bitcoin to buy drugs and tobacco, they probably would have just paid with their bank accounts if the option was available though

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[DaRude]

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff  those cute fuzzy trolls 

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

[Fatman3001]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

[fonsie]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Why would I pay 25EUR a year just to have a creditcard, when I can also use bitcoin, wich is free?

When buying from respected places that "protection" isn't needed, besides where is the merchant his protection with shady customers?

[elasticband]

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

i spend BTC all the time, but i don't buy BTC to spend it...... selling pressure.

I don't like tipping or the silly gambling sites, satoshidice just bloats the bloackchain with silly micro transactions based on greed.

the unbanked and worldwide transfer of value are the things that probably brought me into bitcoin. paying for day to day things with bitcoin works but probably is not where the real value of the protocol lays. Being able to distance your bank and your merchants with a decentralized transfer system has its advantages in this day and age, people are becoming more aware of the intrusive nature of some of these big companies and banks.


I Am a big bitcoin advocate, anyone who knows me IRL knows this, i don't get hyped by new merchant adoption though. I get hyped when bitcoin becomes more accessible and usable by the random joeblogs who does not even know what a bitcoin is.

[DaRude]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

[Fatman3001]

My favorite one is the argument against adaption as a lot of people accepting bitcoins will bring more sell pressure on the currency as people will use their BTC to actually buy stuff  those cute fuzzy trolls 

Unless there is reason for normal none BTC holding joe blogs to go out and buy bitcoin to then buy his online product, then yes more BTC business accepting adoption just equates to more ways for BTC hodlers to cash out and a downward sell pressure. without creating a demand for really using BTC in the real world, we are just creating more sell pressure.

Compared to last year, i can dump bitcoins so many different places now.

i've still yet to met a person who has wanted something online, then used their bank account to buy BTC, then his btc to buy the product, when they could have just used his bank account and skipped a step. people want seamless easy transactions, BTC - BTC provides that, fiat - BTC - fiat does not.

All in due time. Blue chips giving their stamp of approval and deciding that bitcoin protocol is stable and safe enough for them to adopt is a major reinforcement. The more bitcoin gets accepted the more people start looking at it the more use cases it will find. Buying stuff you don't want traced back to you, gambling (where illegal), tipping, paying in different currency, unbanked, transferring wealth outside of currency controlled states, and vendors offering discounts are all good enough of incentives for me to go fiat -> btc ->transaction.

I'm just looking forward to when you can convert and withdraw Bitcoins directly from your net bank account. If bitcoins starts getting traction with the youtube generation, banks will be falling over themselves to offer such solutions.

[Fatman3001]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

Hopefully liquidity is such, by that time, that we won't even notce.

[DaRude]

I think it's mostly accepted that cryptocurrency is here to stay. It's really hard to argue against a system that charges pennies for transaction. Think the only argument that i can sort of understand against bitcoin protocol are the alts. You know yes cryptocurrency is the future but is bitcoin myspace and facebook is about to come up. That one is a bit harder to argue against, but i think people would value maturity of a protocol when trusting it with their savings vs. the latest marginal improvement. So betting on maturity to be a determining factor against alts

[DaRude]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

Hopefully liquidity is such, by that time, that we won't even notce.

Well, i don't have the stats but i imagine that by far the majority of coins is not traded. And i doubt those early adopters been increasing their stashes by 10% yearly. Now 10% is a lot in itself. But when you consider that only 50% are traded, now 20% of asks would come from new coins, if you think only 30% are traded whopping 33% of sell pressure would be new minted coins. BTC liquidity is proportional to price too, when it was $1 it was normal to see BTC25k BTC walls when it was $500 or so people still draw pictures of a BTC30k bearwhale. The higher price implies higher demand, thus the higher the price the more effect THE HALVING of supply will have.

[octaft]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Why would I pay 25EUR a year just to have a creditcard, when I can also use bitcoin, wich is free?

When buying from respected places that "protection" isn't needed, besides where is the merchant his protection with shady customers?

Who pays to have a credit card? You might pay interest if you keep a balance (which is fair since you're borrowing money). but I've never paid one red cent simply for the right to have any credit card.

As for merchant protection, here's the thing: the customer spends the money, and the customer does not give a shit about merchant protection. The merchant can't stop selling his goods/services because he isn't as well protected, but the customer sure can stop spending his money with that merchant if they don't allow the customer to use payment methods that feel safest to the customer.

[molecular]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

Hopefully liquidity is such, by that time, that we won't even notce.

I'm very sure it will be noticed. Liquidity doesn't matter, either: if you cut supply in half and keep demand constant, you'll have an effect on price, no matter how high the liquidity.

The only question is: what's the timeline for pricing it in? Don't expect a rocket on exactly the halfing day. Rate will likely start going on a hike northwards quite a while before, maybe as early as Christmas '15. On the other hand it's also possible the effect will be underestimated (like last time). People would be saying: "it's already priced in" and many might sell ("buy the rumor, sell the news"). Then they won't know what hit them some time later

[Fatman3001]

I think it's mostly accepted that cryptocurrency is here to stay. It's really hard to argue against a system that charges pennies for transaction. Think the only argument that i can sort of understand against bitcoin protocol are the alts. You know yes cryptocurrency is the future but is bitcoin myspace and facebook is about to come up. That one is a bit harder to argue against, but i think people would value maturity of a protocol when trusting it with their savings vs. the latest marginal improvement. So betting on maturity to be a determining factor against alts

MySpace wasn't an economical instrument. Building a stable unregulated currency takes time. A lot of geeks and programmers are looking for technical solutions, but they won't find it. Economics is at some very basic level a social science, and it won't be confined by maths and programming alone since social sciences can't be confined in paradigms

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Fatman3001]

What are the specific benefits to a customer of using bitcoin?

Say Amazon take bitcoin tomorrow, it would still be an extra step and an extra conversion charge for the general public to use bitcoins. Unless they got paid in bitcoin and they would be pretty sick now if their salary was set at the value of 1200$/b.

Buying things from overseas? it simplifies I guess. But you lose any protection.

Sending money to someone far away. Not an everyday thing for general p.

Imagine if you have fairly grown up kids, but not grown up enough that you want to let them loose on the net with a credit card, but old enough that the amount of internet purchases they make far exceeds what you want to have to deal with. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you're a respectable mum or dad in a conservative neighborhood, but you just happen to love spending Sundays in your basement busting your whatever to german scheisse movies. Bitcoin.

Imagine that you found this marvelous doohickey that costs next to nothing on a site you don't trust. Bitcoin.

Imagine if you have a cousin somewhere in Africa or Asia who needs to get out of the country ASAP because shit's going down, or simply suddenly ran into some economic dire straits. Bitcoin.

Imagine.... use your imagination!

For crying out loud...

Now imagine that worldwide.
And after all that explain why it's market cap should be less than say western union alone?

I think the problem in valuation is the initial distribution (aka the inflation of 3600 new mined BTC daily). That's a lot of coins looking for a holder even on a slow day. So BTC will be a wild ride, but it's a necessary evil and only temporary can't wait for (76 weeks, 5 days, 22 hours, 20 minutes) http://bitcoinclock.com expecting it to have a huge effect on valuation once we'll start getting closer to that

Hopefully liquidity is such, by that time, that we won't even notce.

Well, i don't have the stats but i imagine that by far the majority of coins is not traded. And i doubt those early adopters been increasing their stashes by 10% yearly. Now 10% is a lot in itself. But when you consider that only 50% are traded, now 20% of asks would come from new coins, if you think only 30% are traded whopping 33% of sell pressure would be new minted coins. BTC liquidity is proportional to price too, when it was $1 it was normal to see BTC25k BTC walls when it was $500 or so people still draw pictures of a BTC30k bearwhale. The higher price implies higher demand, thus the higher the price the more effect THE HALVING of supply will have.

All I meant was that if BTC takes off in a Really Big Way with buying and selling vs hoarding and speculating, liquidity would be at a level where the market would absorb those coins without it having such a distorting impact. We are quite far away from there, but I can't help dreaming.

[WeltMaster]

Interested to see if any people still think this is a repeat of November?