Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[gentlemand]

So this is how the average chinese bitcoiner looks like:  




http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1707565/investors-fear-hk3b-losses-closure-bitcoin-trading-company

"In December, the company changed its trading rules, forbidding investors to cash in all their bitcoins unless they manage to find more clients."


@JorgeStolfi, do you know if BIT investors meanwhile are allowed to cash out, or is it still prohibited?

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/551553942745006080

it seems to be big if true. Enough to crash the prices to the 100's.

Why no moves so far?

"Investors said they were lured by promises of a HK$1 million return in four months for buying a HK$400,000 bitcoin contract which would produce 90 bitcoins on maturity. Extra profits and prizes such as a Mercedes car or cash prizes would be paid if an investor found more new clients."

Because there aren't any actual bitcoins involved? The folks who lost put their fiat in.

[fonzie]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=949455.msg10397491#msg10397491

三十亿，三千名用户？你确定？平均下来，每个用户有一百万的资产在平台？我不信。

Translation:

"Three billion , three thousand users ? You sure? On average, each user has one million of assets in the platform ? I do not believe."



Even the chinese are still in denial. There is something that unites bitcoiners worldwide...
Blinded by greed.

[aztecminer]

So this is how the average chinese bitcoiner looks like:  




http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1707565/investors-fear-hk3b-losses-closure-bitcoin-trading-company

"In December, the company changed its trading rules, forbidding investors to cash in all their bitcoins unless they manage to find more clients."


@JorgeStolfi, do you know if BIT investors meanwhile are allowed to cash out, or is it still prohibited?

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/551553942745006080

it seems to be big if true. Enough to crash the prices to the 100's.

Why no moves so far?

"Investors said they were lured by promises of a HK$1 million return in four months for buying a HK$400,000 bitcoin contract which would produce 90 bitcoins on maturity. Extra profits and prizes such as a Mercedes car or cash prizes would be paid if an investor found more new clients."

Because there aren't any actual bitcoins involved? The folks who lost put their fiat in.

ok everyone get ready for the big 'chinese mining contract scheme gone viral goxed exchange panic' flash bombs .

[pippo]

What say Adam Guerb.... about this  

[JorgeStolfi]

So this is how the average chinese bitcoiner looks like:  

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1707565/investors-fear-hk3b-losses-closure-bitcoin-trading-company

Yes, you have seen this article by now, I suppose:
Why the Chinese can't get enough of Bitcoin - despite bank ban
Peter Ford, Christian Science Monitor, 2013-12-06
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2013/1206/Why-the-Chinese-can-t-get-enough-of-Bitcoin-despite-bank-ban

"In December, the company changed its trading rules, forbidding investors to cash in all their bitcoins unless they manage to find more clients."
@JorgeStolfi, do you know if BIT investors meanwhile are allowed to cash out, or is it still prohibited?
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/551553942745006080

No news on the SMBIT thread, and Google does not seem to find anything either.  I suppose that it is still at Stage 4 in the Karpelès Scale.

According to Barry's tweet, they have suspended redemption (withdrawal, liquidation) since 2014-10, while they are waiting for SMBIT shares to be listed at OTCQX -- an exchange for non-standard assets ("pink sheets" some sources have called them).  SMBIT had promised investors that such a market would be available by April 2014, IIRC.

I don't understand why they have to suspend redemption for that reason.  Perhaps they intend to suspend redemption indefinitely, so that the only way for clients to get their money back will be to find even greater fools more optimistic investors?

Anyway, I suppose that their clients were duly warned that such a situation could arise, and SMBIT has told them the reasons for the suspension  Unfortunately, it seems that clients have to sign an NDA of some sort, and cannot reveal the content of the mail they get from the fund.

[Eamorr]

It's 06:15 in Beijing.



Once they get through the traffic, these guys will be at their desks.

[tarmi]

[ElectricMucus]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=949455.msg10397491#msg10397491

三十亿，三千名用户？你确定？平均下来，每个用户有一百万的资产在平台？我不信。

Translation:

"Three billion , three thousand users ? You sure? On average, each user has one million of assets in the platform ? I do not believe."



Even the chinese are still in denial. There is something that unites bitcoiners worldwide...
Blinded by greed.

It's more like one million of empty promises per sucker, most of the "funds" there probably were imaginary.

[billyjoeallen]

Most stolen coins have already been sold. Why do you think the price has gone down for over a year?

[grahvity]

Go out from Bitcoin and all in at Darkcoin ;-)

[fonzie]

Most stolen coins have already been sold. Why do you think the price has gone down for over a year?

OK, thanks for the update(inside informations), i´m buyin in now. I always thought it was due to the lack of fresh money/buyers. But i guess those 3 million USd left on Bitstamps orderbook will take us to 800$ soon.


Edit: Sometimes i also get told that Goxs missing 800k bitcoin were already sold during the crash from 32 to 2$?

[JorgeStolfi]

It's more like one million of empty promises per sucker, most of the "funds" there probably were imaginary.

Well, if each contract was 400'000 HKD minimum ( = 52'000 USD = 230 BTC), and there were 3000 clients, then the scammers stole at least 150 million USD of real money from their victims.  At current prices that would be 680 kBTC.

It may be bigger than MtGOX, because we do not know how much MtGOX clients actually lost.  The 660 k BTC / 500 M USD figure is what they thought they had in their accounts, which (as in Madoff's case) may be a lot more than what they actually put in.

[fonzie]

So this is how the average chinese bitcoiner looks like:  

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1707565/investors-fear-hk3b-losses-closure-bitcoin-trading-company

Yes, you have seen this article by now, I suppose:
Why the Chinese can't get enough of Bitcoin - despite bank ban
Peter Ford, Christian Science Monitor, 2013-12-06
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2013/1206/Why-the-Chinese-can-t-get-enough-of-Bitcoin-despite-bank-ban

"In December, the company changed its trading rules, forbidding investors to cash in all their bitcoins unless they manage to find more clients."
@JorgeStolfi, do you know if BIT investors meanwhile are allowed to cash out, or is it still prohibited?
https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/551553942745006080

No news on the SMBIT thread, and Google does not seem to find anything either.  I suppose that it is still at Stage 4 in the Karpelès Scale.

According to Barry's tweet, they have suspended redemption (withdrawal, liquidation) since 2014-10, while they are waiting for SMBIT shares to be listed at OTCQX -- an exchange for non-standard assets ("pink sheets" some sources have called them).  SMBIT had promised investors that such a market would be available by April 2014, IIRC.

I don't understand why they have to suspend redemption for that reason.  Perhaps they intend to suspend redemption indefinitely, so that the only way for clients to get their money back will be to find even greater fools more optimistic investors?

Anyway, I suppose that their clients were duly warned that such a situation could arise, and SMBIT has told them the reasons for the suspension  Unfortunately, it seems that clients have to sign an NDA of some sort, and cannot reveal the content of the mail they get from the fund.

Thanks. I can´t wait to see how this BIT thing plays out in the end.... If we ever should get any informations.

[tarmi]

Most stolen coins have already been sold. Why do you think the price has gone down for over a year?

money is missing, not coins.

[fonzie]

Will bullscam newssites like coindesk.com even report about the ponzi incident? Nothing so far...

[hknews]

Today a fake news about "A Hong Kong based exchanger mycoin.hk run off with 3 billion HKD (around 380 million US dollar)" came out in public, however the number of money lost in this news are FAKE!

Remember the $10 dollar fake bitcoins sold at Mtgox's last life cycle, If you took the risk to buy 1000 of them, can you say you lost 1000 * $220 current market price = 220,000 dollars? Well Hong Kong media definitely do so, same thing is happening again with mycoin.hk.
Most bitcoins lost at there were bought at less than $20 US dollars each!




news link:
http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1707565/investors-fear-hk3b-losses-closure-bitcoin-trading-company
http://money.udn.com/storypage.php?sub_id=5603&art_id=696371
http://cablenews.i-cable.com/webapps/news_video/index.php?news_id=451648
....

These news are ALL USING THE FAKE NUMBER


Most Hong Kong local news reporters don't understand the whole thing or just make up this huge number to create the "big lost" story in the name of bitcoin(new tech + big lost always take eye-balls),

I will show you how this "3 billion Hong Kong dollars" was made out:

Mycoin.hk is the runoff exchanger here (NOT mycoin.com, some media reporters mistaken reporting the exchanger's website domain), This exchanger has a really small market share, even smaller than kraken.com, it used to have around 500 btcs trades per day but about a half year ago it started to delay and stop processing client's withdrawals, since it's too small not many people even know about it, only some of their clients talked about it at months ago.

Mycoin.hk also set the daily bitcoin withdraw limit to 0.5 btc per day(since 3-5 months ago), then 0.1 per day(since about 2-3 months ago), then 0.01 per day(since 1-2 months ago), during this crazy time, bitcoin price traded on their exchange market dropped from market price to $500HKD $200HKD $100HKD $50HKD $20HKD $10HKD.. There are two reasons of this drop: First, the exchanger was trying to attract fiat deposits and stop clients from asking withdrawals like the Mtgox did, almost every Chinese including Hong Kong citizens kept warning/laughing at this old trick, however there are always some people would take the risk and made deposits to buy their "super cheap coins" and hoping may be they can withdraw again someday, Second, the exchanger was trying to pretend everything is fine and their trading activity is still high.

Most people in Mainland China and Hong Kong SAR know about this situation at long long time ago (people talked about this at many Chinese bitcoin forum since the end of 2014), Now today the exchanger finally gone down as everyone's expected.

The interesting thing is now the media journalists sum all the bitcoins in mycoin.hk's clients accounts and get the 3 billions HKD number from:
Amount of fake and super cheap bitcoin * current market price = 3 billions HKD <-- well, this is fake because most of bitcoins there never existed and were "bought" by risk takers and existing desperate clients at a price from $500hkd(60 USD) to $100hkd(16 USD) to $10hkd(1.2 USD) in recent months.

In conclusion, A really small exchanger gone down, less than may be let's say half million HKD(including real bitcoins deposited at there) is lost (because mycoin.hk stop processing withdrawals at long time ago, some real clients must have lost something), "100000000+" or whatever fake bicoins bought at there at a super discount price (99.9% off) are also gone, a so call "3 billions HKD (300 millions USD) lost" was added up by media reporters with a formula "never existed & super cheap fake coins" * current market price = "fake 3 billions HKD"

If you are waiting for those "never existed & super cheap fake coins" dump into the market, not gonna happen,
If you are waiting for Chinese market to panic, give it up, most Chinese know the mycoin.hk exchanger would runoff at a half year ago

That's it, thank you for reading, and please, if someone know or connected to the Hong Kong news  media please ask them to correct this outrageous howler.

[readysalted89]

Most stolen coins have already been sold. Why do you think the price has gone down for over a year?

money is missing, not coins.

It sounds like coins might be missing in addition to money. There is a mycoin thread in the Chinese section here that says they were limiting what people could withdraw in December last year. The Google translated version is at this link. The translation is terrible, but it sounds like people could only withdraw a small amount of their total bitcoins on the site.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=https://bitcointalk.org/index.php%3Ftopic%3D887200.0&prev=search

[DaRude]

...long logical explanation of how a small exchange that was dying for over half a year finally closed down...

Well that'd explain why it made no effect on a market

[ElectricMucus]

It's more like one million of empty promises per sucker, most of the "funds" there probably were imaginary.

Well, if each contract was 400'000 HKD minimum ( = 52'000 USD = 230 BTC), and there were 3000 clients, then the scammers stole at least 150 million USD of real money from their victims.  At current prices that would be 680 kBTC.

It may be bigger than MtGOX, because we do not know how much MtGOX clients actually lost.  The 660 k BTC / 500 M USD figure is what they thought they had in their accounts, which (as in Madoff's case) may be a lot more than what they actually put in.

Makes sense.

[fonzie]

None of the newssites clams that they calculated the missing money with BTC/CNY prices. They don´t a say a word about the number of missing bitcoins. They say that people paid on average 400k$ KH for some contracts.
"Investors said they were lured by promises of a HK$1 million return in four months for buying a HK$400,000 bitcoin contract "
Most of this story has nothing to with real Bitcoins. It´s just a typical ponzi that has chosen to use Bitcoin for it´s marketing. But still, bad news is bad news(for Bitcoin) and missing FIAT money is still missing.

Stop bullscamming, no one will buy your overpriced coins. No sane chinese will ever put fresh money into anything that is related to Bitcoin afther this hits the news!