Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Karartma1]

Thanks for posting the old Economist. That's a truly symbolic cover that reminded me the Bitcoin/Blockchain cover they posted last year. Nothing is done without purpose guys.

If you saw a full version of the Cogwheel Earth chained to Bitcoin cover, on the coin there is the infinity sign/symbol and the pyramid with the all seeking eye on it.  

*Edit: They probably own a big amount of coins! That makes them feel confident they can control things...

I was referring exactly to that. There's an hidden layer of power which we cannot see but it is overwhelming all of us.
We all recognize something is wrong but we tend not to think about it.

Let's go back to price issues: someone ate my stop loss like ice cream.

[JayJuanGee]

A few thing people here don't seem to understand:

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

China is not leading this market.

No fee Chinese exchanges are being used to "control" the market, because bots are linked and people think China is leading the market.
...
The rise to nearly 800 was one entity

...

If you figured this much out, then you probably also figured out that the one entity is not done yet either.

If one entity managed to corner BTC already, we have bigger issues

Funny how people always try to explain stuff through one hugely powerful entity, the great manipulator.  
I guess it is easier to imagine a single actor and attribute intentions to this actor than to imagine the net effects of a large number of individuals.

These kinds of theories of one or a few entities controlling BTC prices are bonkers. 

Surely, there are some bigger players that engage in manipulation of BTC prices, and surely there is some very advantageous manipulation and signaling between various big players, but narrowing down the explanations to only a few big players misses some of the reality of market dynamics in which manipulation has its limits and even the manipulators lose control over BTC price direction from time to time because of either other big players or multiple small players that push the price beyond the ability to reasonably manipulate.

[JimboToronto]

Good morning Bitcoinland. Been away from home for a couple of days but I see we're still going more or less sideways in the $620-$660 range.



Hopefully the sub-$600 days are gone for good.

[JimboToronto]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

[BitUsher]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

[bobabouey2]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the this of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

I prefer the bobchain of Inthereum.  http://intheoreum.org/#welcome

[JimboToronto]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

LOL  

You owe me 60 seconds for the time I just wasted.  
_______

@ bobabouey:

You owe me 60 seconds too. 

[gentlemand]

Yup. Bob and his pencil is going to lead us to a new dawn. I don't trust this computer shit one bit.

[savetherainforest]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

[JayJuanGee]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

[savetherainforest]

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

You maybe talking about billionaires and huge companies or corporations... But I'm talking about the common folk.

And we are not talking about the volumes. We are talking about ideologies!

I said that the people from Eastern cultures are more likely to do under the table deals than the scared, paranoid, under surveillance... Western common folk!

[DaRude]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

The logic seems reasonable, but it'd still prefer to see some facts. You would have to do it across all exchanges simultaneously. Split BTC10k only puts like BTC2k on each major exchange and then market sell? How much slippage will that get you? What will you do with all those yuans after that? What are the chances that another whale gets you and market actually moves against you? Now you sold your coins for cheap and got to buy them back at higher rate OTC? I'm sure it does happen, but would probably take more than BTC10k What's most likely is someone cornering the Chinese miners, wouldn't be surprised if one broker contracted them all, and all mined coins have been already presold with futures. Luckily that funny business would be cut in half in about 10days

[JayJuanGee]

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

You maybe talking about billionaires and huge companies or corporations... But I'm talking about the common folk.

And we are not talking about the volumes. We are talking about ideologies!

I said that the people from Eastern cultures are more likely to do under the table deals than the scared, paranoid, under surveillance... Western common folk!

I doubt that broad generalizations serve anyone.

We are going to find a variety of behaviors based on amount of capital and access, and likely a large number of regular folks that have mediocre amounts of capital (let's say purchasing less than 10 coins at a time) are going to be using regular available channels for such purchases (and other trading activities).

Surely, smaller volume traders, unless they just happen to have some kind of connection, are not going to either be able to negotiate some special arrangement outside of exchanges or even be benefitted by some special arrangement.. yeah, maybe they have a friend or an arrangement, but that is likely to be the exception rather than the rule.

Take again my example of some higher volume person purchasing 10k BTC or some variation of such, they are likely willing to pay a bit higher than the exchange price in order to acquire a large quantity of coins and not affect slippage.... and there also may be some  other shenanigans going on with those kinds of large volume folks that acquire a lot of coins and dump them on exchanges in order to push the price down off of the exchanges while acquiring for a lower price off exchanges.

We cannot form generalizations about all of this activity because there is a multitude of activities affecting prices, but there remains an incentive for such off exchange deals and purchases in which prices are pushed down on exchanges by coins that had been bought off of exchanges, whether east, west, weast or snourth.

[Karartma1]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

LOL  

You owe me 60 seconds for the time I just wasted.  
_______

@ bobabouey:

You owe me 60 seconds too. 

Likewise!

The bobchain distrupting techology will make you feel like on the top of the hill where you will slide your bob along the chain.
 

It's always good to laugh

[JayJuanGee]

Most buying is done off exchanges and OTC. By a wide margin too.

I always suspected this. I'm curious if you have any figures or links related to this fact.

P.S. Welcome back.

Jimbo... You need to take that notion with a grain of salt. Because... it might be less likely to see that happening in the West, and more likely happening in the East.

That "off exchanges" notion is mostly related to the mentality of nations and cultures. And basically in Ukrain / China / Russia / Mongolia / India .. it would be more likely to see "hand to hand" = "black market" transactions going on. All this compared to the West, where people would be more scared and paranoid of doing this sort of transactions. Also... in the East, people tend to not do business with strangers! Usually they need to be family, they need to live in the city, you need to know where they live, you need to consolidate the trust. Because I'm from the East(even if I live in Central Europe)... and I can tell you as a weird notion out there... I live in a small city of 50.000 people and I know where everyone lives, what part of the city if I don't know their exact address or who they are related with, and especially if I want to make transactions with them! And I would expect to be invited in their home or something like that if they want me to sell me something (like bitcoins), and in rest... everyone knows everyone! And you don't do business without knowing someone. No strangers allowed!

Off exchange transactions is neither an east or west phenomenon, but merely a prudent practice for someone who is able to establish such connections.

If prices can be driven down on exchanges with 10k coins, and those same 10k coins can be bought back at a lower price off the exchanges, without moving the price back up, then conducting off chain transactions makes sense for those individuals with a large number of coins whether they are in the east, west, weast or in the snourth.   

The logic seems reasonable, but it'd still prefer to see some facts. You would have to do it across all exchanges simultaneously. Split BTC10k only puts like BTC2k on each major exchange and then market sell? How much slippage will that get you? What will you do with all those yuans after that? What are the chances that another whale gets you and market actually moves against you? Now you sold your coins for cheap and got to buy them back at higher rate OTC? I'm sure it does happen, but would probably take more than BTC10k What's most likely is someone cornering the Chinese miners, wouldn't be surprised if one broker contracted them all, and all mined coins have been already presold with futures. Luckily that funny business would be cut in half in about 10days

I believe that we largely agree. 

I used 10k BTC as an example, but yeah of course depending on the level of shenanigans is going to take a larger number of coins to achieve larger levels of control, but it is not unreasonable to be happening by some of the larger players.

Furthermore, surely I also agree with your assessment of various risks that are involved in attempting to make these kinds of plays whether you are a manipulator or not.. and as the bitcoin marketcap grows, the amount of capital needed to make such plays becomes higher and higher. 

I think that part of the point with some of the larger manipulators also will be to attempt to undermine bitcoin in various ways on fundamental and perception levels, and they do not necessarily mind operating at somewhat of a loss if they are able to achieve their objectives to keep the BTC prices down and to keep the prestige of bitcoin down. 

However, there is some amount of losing battle aspect in this whole matter of pushing BTC prices down as long as bitcoin continues to be adopted on a broader and broader level by more and more folks, it becomes more and more difficult to keep the prices down through these kinds of OTC manipulation behaviors, and these powers that be in the government and financial institutions just have to allow for some upwards BTC price movements.

If these various powers that be (TPTB) in the government and the status quo financial institutions had their druthers, bitcoin would not have surpassed $500 for more than just a blip.. and now, we are kind of stuck with these higher BTC prices, and TPTB are going to be much less and less convincing in their various attempts at spreading FUCD about BTC because the actual facts of the upward moving price kind of speak in a very concrete way against their various propaganda points. 

Anyhow, BTC is in a very decent place right now, even if prices were to get pushed down into the lower $500s... and really it seems that there would be a considerable struggle to accomplish such a pushing down of BTC prices and I have my doubts about what kinds of resources would be needed to achieve such pushing down of prices to such lower $500s levels. 

Sure, on a personal level (as likely smaller players), each of us gotta prepare ourselves for BTC price movements in either direction.. but stacking our BTC holdings a bit lopsided in favor of upwards price movements seems like a reasonably likely profitable play even with such likely ongoing manipulations taking place behind the scenes.

[dumbfbrankings]

I used to be a permabull , but recently have become extremely negative and will start shorting bitcoin.... and all because of Waynechain .

http://waynechain.com/

Check out the oracles that support this new blockchain and the list of features! I can't wait to sell my large stake in btc for some tokens!

You jest, but...


https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4q3ztw/a_call_for_core_developers_to_clarify_their/d4qh3f8


250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.

[gentlemand]

Ancient history I know, but I can't find much or any mention anywhere on here of this article posted last month regarding our old friend Gox. According to this Gox was missing 80,000 BTC before Mr Karpeles even bought it.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/05/19/behind-the-biggest-bitcoin-heist-in-history-inside-the-implosion-of-mt-gox.html

[JayJuanGee]

250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.

Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings.

What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins?

1) gets eaten before the price moves down below $625 and the price goes up passed $660

2) gets removed before the price moves down below $625 and the price goes up passed $660

3) the price moves down below $625.

4) the price stays between $625 and $650 forever.

hahahahahaha...

Which one?

I am inclined towards number 1 or 2, and maybe a tad bit more inclined towards 1, but I don't claim to be any kind of short term expert.  The more important question is price direction between below $608 and above $685 - and above $685 seems more likely than below $608, but I really would not be surprised either way.

[dumbfbrankings]

250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.

Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings.
What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins?

It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again.

[JayJuanGee]

250 coin finex sell wall guarding $650 like a bozz.

Here's your opportunity dumbfbrankings.
What's your prediction regarding those 250 sell coins?

It's all just noise between the occasional whale splash. I just put that in so my reply to an off-topic post wouldn't get censored, again.

Hahahahaha..

You goofball...


You don't really want to discuss anything substantive regarding bitcoin or its prices or its walls; however, you put something substantive in your earlier nonsense post in order that your post will not be removed, a procedure that you call "censored."

Let me clarificize this "censorship" matter for you... ..  removing off topic posts is not "censorship," it should be more appropriately referred to as cleaning up trolls and shills, which you pretty much admit to being one of those