Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Elwar]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Then it has to be bch, thats the aim of it.as Satoshis knew it would be..no 3rd party,no 2nd layer, lower fees, higher txps and more.

No my chain is better...no mine is...no mine!

Whatevs.


Most of my bitcoin spending is done via third parties already. I am ok with that.

I spend bitcoins on Amazon through Purse, I pay my rent through a Korean wire transfer service. I have bought gift cards to pay for meals in the US and buy food in Germany. It all gets recorded on the blockchain at some point. And it allows me to hold bitcoins as my main currency.

[Ibian]

Do we not know, for a fact, what the mechanical differences between the coins are? Could someone lay it out in a nice easily readable format?

[Mrpumperitis]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Then it has to be bch, thats the aim of it.as Satoshis knew it would be..no 3rd party,no 2nd layer, lower fees, higher txps and more.

No my chain is better...no mine is...no mine!

Whatevs.

 

[chesthing]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Then it has to be bch, thats the aim of it.as Satoshis knew it would be..no 3rd party,no 2nd layer, lower fees, higher txps and more.

No my chain is better...no mine is...no mine!

Whatevs.


Most of my bitcoin spending is done via third parties already. I am ok with that.

I spend bitcoins on Amazon through Purse, I pay my rent through a Korean wire transfer service. I have bought gift cards to pay for meals in the US and buy food in Germany. It all gets recorded on the blockchain at some point. And it allows me to hold bitcoins as my main currency.

Why do you pay rent instead of own being in this game so long? why do you do all of this dorky payments instead of using a debit or credit card? why would you prefer your payments get recorded on a public blockchain vs a private bank or credit card leger that only you can see? Why would you care if you hold bitcoins as your main currency?
curious questions for mr elwar

[sirazimuth]

Do we not know, for a fact, what the mechanical differences between the coins are? Could someone lay it out in a nice easily readable format?

why certainly!

btc around $4200

bth around $680

but that will change in about 30 seconds...

oh wait.... yu said mechanical? wtf does that mean?  (don't bother explaining, my brain cell wouldn't understand anyway)

[notme]

Do we not know, for a fact, what the mechanical differences between the coins are? Could someone lay it out in a nice easily readable format?

BTC: segwit is locked in, blocks will stay at 1mb for the foreseeable future
2X: potential fork with segwit and 2mb blocks
BCH: segwit rejected, blocks are currently capped at 8mb and will likely rise as demand and technology allows.  The transaction signing format was altered to provide a clean break since it makes each chain's transactions invalid on the other chain.  It also has an extra difficulty adjustment mechanism so that if there are less than 6 blocks in a 12 hour period then difficulty drop 20% to ensure that the chain doesn't stall out.

[DaRude]

If bitcoin and bcash reach parity I will sell both and wait.

Doesn't holding what BCH you have just make things worse? Pumpers depend on people not dumping on their heads.

ahhh, but if we all dump into their deep pockets they control the entire float

Let them  they can have their China tokens 

[AlexGR]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

[Ibian]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

That "just" is pretty important.

[bones261]

Blockchain Overview https://cash.coin.dance/blocks
There have been 1081 blocks mined since the hard fork.
(1547 blocks behind the original chain)

The Bitcoin Cash blockchain is currently operating at 13% of the original chain's difficulty.

The original chain has grown 2.25GB more than the Bitcoin Cash blockchain.

It is currently 26% more profitable to mine on the Bitcoin Cash blockchain

Segwitcoin miners are currently losing $10billion per day by not switching (#is from my head but prob not far off lol)

See my response to this exact same message here.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2040221.msg21002609#msg21002609
If you are going to be a shill, at least make your figures believable. Otherwise, you just hurt bitcoin cash by being a complete idiot.
P.S. the math I used is usually mastered by the 5th grade in the US...

[AlexGR]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

That "just" is pretty important.

Bitcoin is going to ~4mb per block (indirect max capacity since the data are stored in a 1+3 manner) once Segwit activates, plus LN on top of that. It's not like 8 vs 1. It's 8 vs 4(+LN).

Ethereum was made after BTC. It has fast blocks (issued in seconds). Their devs know about scaling issues, etc etc, yet their network is literally stuck when an ICO happens. Exchanges are shutting down ETH transactions (!) due to load. What's their proposed solution? Bigger blocks? No, they have accumulated too much bloat and it didn't even solve anything, so LN-type extensions it is ("Plasma") to help with computational and storage scaling.

...
Incredibly high amount of transactions can be committed on this Plasma chain with
minimal data hitting the root blockchain. Any participant can transfer funds to anyone,
including transfers to participants not in the existing set of participants. These transfers
can pay into and withdraw (with some time delay and proofs) funds in the root blockchain’s
native coin(s)/token(s).
...

http://plasma.io/plasma.pdf

[Elwar]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Then it has to be bch, thats the aim of it.as Satoshis knew it would be..no 3rd party,no 2nd layer, lower fees, higher txps and more.

No my chain is better...no mine is...no mine!

Whatevs.


Most of my bitcoin spending is done via third parties already. I am ok with that.

I spend bitcoins on Amazon through Purse, I pay my rent through a Korean wire transfer service. I have bought gift cards to pay for meals in the US and buy food in Germany. It all gets recorded on the blockchain at some point. And it allows me to hold bitcoins as my main currency.

Why do you pay rent instead of own being in this game so long? why do you do all of this dorky payments instead of using a debit or credit card? why would you prefer your payments get recorded on a public blockchain vs a private bank or credit card leger that only you can see? Why would you care if you hold bitcoins as your main currency?
curious questions for mr elwar

I rent because 4 years ago I set a goal to make enough money to retire in 5 years. That meant that every decision in my life revolved around making the most money I possibly could in that short amount of time. In order to help in doing this I made it a point to make my living arrangement as flexible as possible, I sold everything I own other than what can fit in a carry on and backpack. This allows me to take a higher paying job at the drop of a hat. I have even told my employers that if I have to go live in some hot, dark jungle with bombs falling all around me I would take the job as long as the pay was higher. In my line of business being mobile is a huge plus. I literally left Germany for a job in Afghanistan with 5 days to prepare.
I got rid of my credit cards years ago. Even if you plan on paying them off every month, life bites you in the ass sometimes and you use them as a crutch if you don't think you have enough money for the bill that month. Which usually ends in the card owning you. No debit card has made things difficult at times because things would be easier to just go to an ATM but I would be charged ATM fees plus currency conversion fees. I have been able to use bitcoins for such things in all but one instance on the Cambodian border.

I don't really care about my transactions being recorded publicly. I mainly pay rent and shop on Amazon if you want to see .14 bitcoins being sent from my address or .04 bitcoins being sent. In my line of work I can never do anything illegal and I never do (that I know of...everyone breaks some law). If I wanted to hide my purchase (buying a sex doll or whichever) I would just send money directly from an exchange or whichever. I do think privacy is important and believe it can be done if you want to, and LN will make that even more possible. With my line of work, the government knows everything there is to know about me.

I hold bitcoins as my main currency because it is the most convenient currency for me to hold and the value of my currency does not have the built in feature of losing value over time. I am not sure which currency I would hold if it wasn't bitcoin. Dollars? Euro? Won? I buy Won sometimes for spending money, I meet some guy in Seoul and he gives me a great rate, better than I could get from converting dollars to Won. I don't have a bank here in Korea. Bitcoin is much easier than trying to deal with all of that. I remember calculating the daily increase of value my bitcoins had in 2013, it was 1% per day. I converted each paycheck to bitcoins at a cost of 1%. That meant that if I got paid, then waited one week before purchasing something with that money, I made 6% return. Why would I only want to get 6% return on a small part of my pay when I could get that return on all of my pay? By looking at it as bitcoin being my main currency I don't play the game of keeping some dollars for spending then keep a certain percentage of bitcoins and go back and forth or whichever. Just do full on bitcoin and don't worry about playing that game. You can live on bitcoins, there's no reason not to.

[Elwar]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

Would make sense as Wu would not want to expose his AsicBoost usage once SegWit gets activated. Much easier to just create a whole separate chain where he can continue to use it to mine blocks at an advantage.

[AlexGR]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

It doesn't include it at all. He forked-off prior to Segwit activation so there are no Segwit transactions in BCH.

[bitserve]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

Would make sense as Wu would not want to expose his AsicBoost usage once SegWit gets activated. Much easier to just create a whole separate chain where he can continue to use it to mine blocks at an advantage.

I think it forked BEFORE lock-in. Anyway, until there are actual Segwit tx's after ACTIVATION the blockchain was compatible. They just took a snapshot of Bitcoin blockchain at 1 Aug and started building blocks on it with their custom rules.

Bitcoin didn't fork. THEY created a completely separate fork, which is not the same.

Bitcoin Cash it is in fact compatible with AsicBoost.

[notme]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

Would make sense as Wu would not want to expose his AsicBoost usage once SegWit gets activated. Much easier to just create a whole separate chain where he can continue to use it to mine blocks at an advantage.

BCH hard fork happened after bip 91 locked in, but before segwit lock in.  Bip 91 forced segwit lock-in because enforcing nodes started rejecting blocks that did not signal segwit.  Bip 91 locking in and the desire to avoid segwit provided much if the impetus for going ahead with the hard fork rather than continuing to fight for consensus.  Segwit was only signaling at 40% until bip 91 locked in.  Bip 91 gained support following the segwit2x agreement.  However, unsurprisingly there is now contention about the 2x part.

[DaRude]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

It doesn't include it at all. He forked-off prior to Segwit activation so there are no Segwit transactions in BCH.

Why on earth BCC_hina support Segwit or god forbid LN? Think people are missing the whole point of this fork. Miners don't make money on LN transaction = miners don't support LN 

[Dakustaking76]

Do you guys have problems with kraken?

[notme]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

Would make sense as Wu would not want to expose his AsicBoost usage once SegWit gets activated. Much easier to just create a whole separate chain where he can continue to use it to mine blocks at an advantage.

I think it forked BEFORE lock-in. Anyway, until there are actual Segwit tx's after ACTIVATION the blockchain was compatible. They just took a snapshot of Bitcoin blockchain at 1 Aug and started building blocks on it with their custom rules.

Bitcoin didn't fork. THEY created a completely separate fork, which is not the same.

Bitcoin Cash it is in fact compatible with AsicBoost.

Their custom rules are mostly just larger blocks and mechanisms to ensure transactions for each chain are only valid on one chain to avoid replay attacks.  The full details are here:
https://github.com/Bitcoin-UAHF/spec/blob/master/uahf-technical-spec.md

[bitserve]

I just want to use Bitcoin as a currency. I honestly do not care too much about the small differences between the two chains. They both have SegWit which will allow the Lightning Network which will allow for fast, cheap microtransactions.

Not really. BCH doesn't have Segwit, doesn't fix tx malleability and obviously LN can't play with tx malleability without other workarounds (?). It's just "bigger blocks".

Didn't BCH fork off after the Segwit lock in? Or did they fork with a version that did not include it?

It doesn't include it at all. He forked-off prior to Segwit activation so there are no Segwit transactions in BCH.

Why on earth BCC_hina support Segwit or god forbid LN? Think people are missing the whole point of this fork. Miners don't make money on LN transaction = miners don't support LN 

Miners don't make money either if fees are very low... Oh, now that I think about it.... Are those calculations about profitability of BCH vs BTC include tx's fees per block? Don't think so....