Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[TERA2]

Having an order at a low price doesn't mean I'm a bear - it has to do with individual exchanges screwing up and liquidating the entire book - I've seen it before.

[ayesha201009]

so far there is a clear trend between btctalk users , it seems pretty clear by now price is up trending and a new record is also probable.
in the last hour price is again around 11k dollars, Are these good moment to buy before another rise? wait for december 18th!

[JayJuanGee]

So has anyone here actually treated themselves to anything after passing an arbitrary milestone?

Not yet. OTOH, my daughter asked me to walk her through my 'laddered day trading' strategy for monetizing the volatility. She's been sitting on her BTC for just shy of four years now. I guess she's ready.

Well, you going to share some kind of outline of that overall strategy with us (in it's current iteration and how it might vary for your daughter, who likely has a smaller BTC/fiat stash), or is your overall strategy a secret to pass only on to family members?

Oh hell, JJG. It's not secret. In fact, I've divulged it here before*. And indeed, to the extent that you have revealed yours, I think it is largely the same strategy.

You are the one who brought it up, and I am kind of getting another lovey dovey tinglie feeling to be anticipate that I could be having a bit of trade strategy bonding (sharing of commonality) with a picnic food eating bear.

*I've couched it in terms of 'taking value in fiat', in a means that plays off the volatility, that sometimes nets you even more BTC than before starting to pull out fiat value. Either way, maximizes your possible net. Maybe a month or two ago. Let me know if you need me to drag it out again. Though I distinctly remember you commenting upon at at the time.

I have read a few posts of yours on the topic, and surely you have informed me in various ways.. but I thought that you could share the overall essence, rather than just saying that your daughter is interested... I mean give us a bit more than merely that.

The important point is daughter is now interested enough to try to absorb it. I find this an excellent development, as dinner table discussion between the Mrs. and me has transitioned from 'what do you want to do now that we have all this money'? to 'what is the most responsible way to handle dynastic wealth'?

Actually that is a very important point.  It takes a long time to put theory into practice and to hone strategies that are comfortable on a personal level and that are personally tailored.. and mistakes are likely to be made, too, in order to learn.. or at least mistakes will likely be made if someone is really engaging with the matter in a meaningful way to attempt to use BTC to reach personalized goals.

Really the only variable for a smaller owner is using smaller amounts. Everything scales to holdings.

Actually, I agree with you, but the owner of a smaller level of assets frequently wants to catch up and gets anxious and then starts to make BIG ASS mistakes.. that has been my experience trying to teach people, many times, they have difficulties keeping down their amounts and exercising restraint because otherwise they either run out of BTC on major price rises or they run out of fiat on major crashes.  I have seen that a lot with people I interact, and even with myself it has taken a lot of time, and I am thinking that I am not completely immuned from such overrunning.

I'll simplify to BTC only, and only on GDAX (where makers pay 0%). At least at first. The strategy -- such as it is -- is applicable to other scenarios, perhaps with additional complications.

Actually, I think that it is good to be able to have the zero fee option, and surely if you try to trade in other place, you gotta cushion a bit more to account for those trading fees.

We're divided by a 45 minute drive and infrequent emails & phone. She really needs a full intro. I figure it'll be a written manual, plus live demo when we can get together.

I am kind of in the opinion to give guidance and then let the person practice and the person should practice with smaller amounts and then can get into more of an interaction about what s/he did and learning from mistakes and smart moves, too... so maybe writing less and just going over scenarios and letting the person develop a strategy that fits within some semblance of acceptable parameters.

First installment written and sent, but that is really an overview of available data that a trader might need. I'll post it if you want, but it is likely remedial for Bitcoin wall watchers, and only covers background info. Next installment will be an exchange overview, then third likely the method itself.

hopefully you do not bore her to death with your bear talk?   hahahahhahaha..

I am just kidding.    Hopefully, she will continue to pay attention through all three treatises... Maybe that is why I have such a love hate relationship with such a picnic bear... reminds me of myself, somewhat.   

[AlcoHoDL]

This could well have been written about me.

I'm not saying that it is always absolutely wrong to have 90% of your assets in BTC or whatever, but it should be because you are intentionally choosing to do so, not because the price got away from you and you never really considered that you now have 90% of your wealth riding on one thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gi55s/dont_invest_recklessly/

I'm spooked again.

So, theymos is now advising those of us who went 50% in on Bitcoin, and are now nearly 90% in due to a rising Bitcoin, to sell 45% of our BTC stash, in order to return to the initial BTC/total investment of 50%.

I respect him, but can't help but wonder if that is a good piece of advice... I feel I should have invested more in BTC when I could. But I guess that's the greedy side of me talking. Will see how things play out...

I also don't really know what he is saying, except perhaps that we need to be  making conscious assessments about what are doing and how we are allocating our assets and whether we may be in a decent position to be considering reallocation.

Surely, I doubt that you need to have anything near an allocation of 50% initially in order to be approaching 90% currently and based on the exorbitant extent of our recent price appreciation(s).

I can look at my own initial goal of allocating around 10% that ended up being closer to 15%, and even though I lost a decent amount of coin through a hacker(s), I still am running numbers very close to 90%, depending on how I frame my investment.  

On a personal level, I feel fairly cognizant about the personal appropriateness of the approach that I am taking, and surely I appreciate the concept of diversification and reallocation too.  i also appreciate the concept of selling on the way up and buying on the way down, which I continue to believe to be a really decent vehicle that could sufficiently address allocation and diversification concerns and allow what might appear to be more risky/lopsided BTC allocation levels.

I know that each of us develop some strategies here, too, and I am thinking about Bob, too... .. I mean sometimes guys give us ideas about the quantity of their holdings, and sure, he is saying that he is diversifying by cashing out some of his Bcash, and stuff like that, and is that level of cashing out enough?  Should not each of us be cashing out a little bit along the way.. just in case (without making any BIG ASS cashing outs?)  Another thing that Bob said, is where is he going to put his money that is better than BTC.. and in that regard, just having it in cash is not better, but it does help to prepare for BTC dips, even knowing that long term cash is not going to hold its value, but for a year or less, it is not a major price to pay to hold some cash, just in case for buying BTC dips, no?

Thanks for replying JJG. I read the entire reddit post by theymos, but just can't follow his advice. I'm not a trader like you, and have been studying the posts here, in order to slowly pick up on trading methods. I have nowhere near the amount of BTC that veterans here like you, Jimbo or BLB have, so for me it's an "all or nothing" game. If I sell almost half of my stash, I'm effectively reducing the chances of financial independence. I will ride the wave and let it take me where it may.

[HairyMaclairy]

photoupload

[windjc]

I wouldn't be surprised if Theymos sold a bunch of his btc stash before the 2x threat.  I know at least one other prominent early adopter who completely cashed out.

Theymos might be hoping the price comes back down so he gives advice as such to make himself feel better. I don't know why he otherwise would feel compelled to advise people. Why does he care? This is free market. Let people live and learn.

[jbreher]

Actually, I agree with you, but the owner of a smaller level of assets frequently wants to catch up and gets anxious and then starts to make BIG ASS mistakes..

Probably the most important point in your response. Perhaps the most important part of having a strategy, is that you have a mechanism for dealing with both market boredom (price in a tiny range for days on end) and market terror (to the point where your brain has a hard time catching up with the level of change).

The strategy is methodical. It will never yield results as good as the uber-trader who somehow 'knows' what point the lows are, and 'knows' what point the highs are. But it will always be positive. ( I really fee that uber-trader is just lucky, and everyone's luck runs out some time).

I'll dig through my post history, and find the clearest to day exposition of the process. Just for you. Well, you and everyone else reading.

[jbreher]

I'll dig through my post history, and find the clearest to day exposition of the process. Just for you. Well, you and everyone else reading.

OK, I found the post. It is a skeleton which assumes some previous knowledge, but provides the basics for those interested.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg22405941#msg22405941

Interestingly, I needed to link to a post directly before my post of interest. I still see the post, but am unable to link to it. More overzealous moderation? Someone erasing my previous history? I dunno.

In case I am shadowbanned - JJG - here is your response that quotes the most salient portion:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg22411843#msg22411843

[Karartma1]

Bitcoin price hovering around the most recent ATH: another (extra)ordinary day in the making.
About theymos advice: I still don't get it. Why does he care? and what does he know about the fact that

For example, there is no mathematical proof that the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are actually secure -- they are merely believed to be secure because nobody has been able to break them after many years of intense scrutiny. (

Food for thought I guess

[explorer]

Bitcoin price hovering around the most recent ATH: another (extra)ordinary day in the making.
About theymos advice: I still don't get it. Why does he care? and what does he know about the fact that

For example, there is no mathematical proof that the cryptographic algorithms used in Bitcoin are actually secure -- they are merely believed to be secure because nobody has been able to break them after many years of intense scrutiny. (

Food for thought I guess

I don't know that gravity works; I believe it does, since I haven't floated away...  Yet.

Anything can happen.  Reasonable doubt is reasonable.  Risks are what make up life, decision by decision.

[bitserve]

I personally think John Macafee's dick is safe.

I'm not certain he will even make it to the deadline. He's 72 years old and all those drugs must have been taking a toll on his body. Perhaps he has an iron constitution.

Better living through chemistry?

Maybe, look at those Rolling Stones guys.

[Globb0]

I always wondered if I went back in time and bought 1,000,000 coins, what would happen and how it would change. Maybe btc would just fail altogether.

Do not f*ck with the past, it's working out perfectly ... well for the majority of us at least. Just continue doing whatever it is that you do.

What if someone is already living it over and over again perfecting the rise of bitcoin.

Hmmm this time lets try a fork called BCH, oo and make RV turn evil. Good *rubs hands*

I personally think John Macafee's dick is safe.

I'm not certain he will even make it to the deadline. He's 72 years old and all those drugs must have been taking a toll on his body. Perhaps he has an iron constitution.

Better living through chemistry?

Maybe, look at those Rolling Stones guys.

Yeah but they are only 35 years old     

[Searing]

I always wondered if I went back in time and bought 1,000,000 coins, what would happen and how it would change. Maybe btc would just fail altogether.

Do not f*ck with the past, it's working out perfectly ... well for the majority of us at least. Just continue doing whatever it is that you do.

What if someone is already living it over and over again perfecting the rise of bitcoin.

Hmmm this time lets try a fork called BCH, oo and make RV turn evil. Good *rubs hands*

I believe Jihan Wu of Bitmain has such a machine......it all fits the facts of bitmain's rise to power and BCH games. (shudder)

[Spaceman_Spiff_Original]

This could well have been written about me.

I'm not saying that it is always absolutely wrong to have 90% of your assets in BTC or whatever, but it should be because you are intentionally choosing to do so, not because the price got away from you and you never really considered that you now have 90% of your wealth riding on one thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gi55s/dont_invest_recklessly/

I'm spooked again.

So, theymos is now advising those of us who went 50% in on Bitcoin, and are now nearly 90% in due to a rising Bitcoin, to sell 45% of our BTC stash, in order to return to the initial BTC/total investment of 50%.

I respect him, but can't help but wonder if that is a good piece of advice... I feel I should have invested more in BTC when I could. But I guess that's the greedy side of me talking. Will see how things play out...

He isn't saying that at all. Read bold part.

[bitserve]

-CME cancels the future due to SEC
-Japan pulls a China
-Segwit/Lightning/etc are teh fail
-Bitfinex is goxxed
-Satoshi becomes a bear and dumps all in one market order on Bitstamp filling my order for a million coins at $0.11

You have over $100K spare sitting on Bitstamp just waiting for a potential BTC dump to $0.11?

[JayJuanGee]

This could well have been written about me.

I'm not saying that it is always absolutely wrong to have 90% of your assets in BTC or whatever, but it should be because you are intentionally choosing to do so, not because the price got away from you and you never really considered that you now have 90% of your wealth riding on one thing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7gi55s/dont_invest_recklessly/

I'm spooked again.

So, theymos is now advising those of us who went 50% in on Bitcoin, and are now nearly 90% in due to a rising Bitcoin, to sell 45% of our BTC stash, in order to return to the initial BTC/total investment of 50%.

I respect him, but can't help but wonder if that is a good piece of advice... I feel I should have invested more in BTC when I could. But I guess that's the greedy side of me talking. Will see how things play out...

I also don't really know what he is saying, except perhaps that we need to be  making conscious assessments about what are doing and how we are allocating our assets and whether we may be in a decent position to be considering reallocation.

Surely, I doubt that you need to have anything near an allocation of 50% initially in order to be approaching 90% currently and based on the exorbitant extent of our recent price appreciation(s).

I can look at my own initial goal of allocating around 10% that ended up being closer to 15%, and even though I lost a decent amount of coin through a hacker(s), I still am running numbers very close to 90%, depending on how I frame my investment.  

On a personal level, I feel fairly cognizant about the personal appropriateness of the approach that I am taking, and surely I appreciate the concept of diversification and reallocation too.  i also appreciate the concept of selling on the way up and buying on the way down, which I continue to believe to be a really decent vehicle that could sufficiently address allocation and diversification concerns and allow what might appear to be more risky/lopsided BTC allocation levels.

I know that each of us develop some strategies here, too, and I am thinking about Bob, too... .. I mean sometimes guys give us ideas about the quantity of their holdings, and sure, he is saying that he is diversifying by cashing out some of his Bcash, and stuff like that, and is that level of cashing out enough?  Should not each of us be cashing out a little bit along the way.. just in case (without making any BIG ASS cashing outs?)  Another thing that Bob said, is where is he going to put his money that is better than BTC.. and in that regard, just having it in cash is not better, but it does help to prepare for BTC dips, even knowing that long term cash is not going to hold its value, but for a year or less, it is not a major price to pay to hold some cash, just in case for buying BTC dips, no?

Thanks for replying JJG. I read the entire reddit post by theymos, but just can't follow his advice. I'm not a trader like you, and have been studying the posts here, in order to slowly pick up on trading methods. I have nowhere near the amount of BTC that veterans here like you, Jimbo or BLB have, so for me it's an "all or nothing" game. If I sell almost half of my stash, I'm effectively reducing the chances of financial independence. I will ride the wave and let it take me where it may.

I largely agree with you.    I was going through some of the thought process myself, and I am not really sure if the amount matters, but instead the opportunity to consider these kinds of matters in order that you are making an informed and personally appropriate choice. 

Although I do think that it could matter the extent to which if your whole BTC investment went "poof" then where would you be.

However, the odds of the whole thing going "poof" don't seem too likely. 

Personally, I have been skimming my fund for a couple of years  (ever since $250) and folding the money back in.

Yet, I am not really sure what I would do if the prices dropped below $2k or $1k?  I might use some of that slush money that I accumulated to buy BTC, perhaps?  My buy back plan has gotten so fucking much stronger, especially in our last price surge after the mid-September 40% correction.  That 40% correction caused me to create a stronger plan, and coupled by the fucking crazy ass extra ordinary nearly 4x price improvement from mid-September, I have created buy orders that go further down the chain and more money in my reserves for it BTC prices overshoot further downwardly from those greater extremes that are now within my preparations.

So I feel that my BTC portfolio is in really great shape and even better prepared for either price direction, especially after the mid-September price correction.

[JayJuanGee]

I wouldn't be surprised if Theymos sold a bunch of his btc stash before the 2x threat.  I know at least one other prominent early adopter who completely cashed out.

Theymos might be hoping the price comes back down so he gives advice as such to make himself feel better. I don't know why he otherwise would feel compelled to advise people. Why does he care? This is free market. Let people live and learn.

That is possible.  I did notice a few of his seemingly bearish posts after that, and so I think that he had been expecting more bearish price movements than what actually happened.. Does that affect what he says, sure probably.

[luckygenough56]

Bitcoin trading rule 56 :

if it doesn't happen on friday, wait for Monday  

[TERA2]

The craziest things used to happen on weekends, usually due to gox. Sunday was a regular dump day.

[JayJuanGee]

Actually, I agree with you, but the owner of a smaller level of assets frequently wants to catch up and gets anxious and then starts to make BIG ASS mistakes..

Probably the most important point in your response. Perhaps the most important part of having a strategy, is that you have a mechanism for dealing with both market boredom (price in a tiny range for days on end) and market terror (to the point where your brain has a hard time catching up with the level of change).

The strategy is methodical. It will never yield results as good as the uber-trader who somehow 'knows' what point the lows are, and 'knows' what point the highs are. But it will always be positive. ( I really fee that uber-trader is just lucky, and everyone's luck runs out some time).

I'll dig through my post history, and find the clearest to day exposition of the process. Just for you. Well, you and everyone else reading.

Hahahhahahaha..   Everyone.  I am in agreement with a bear!!!!!    

I already know that bears eat people... so even though you are being nice... I am going to keep a little bit of bear spray prepared, just in case you are not nice anymore.  Otherwise, I have some honey.  Winnie the pooh likes honey, and I am of the belief that you like honey too, at least enough that I can distract you with it while I run away.  

I'll dig through my post history, and find the clearest to day exposition of the process. Just for you. Well, you and everyone else reading.

OK, I found the post. It is a skeleton which assumes some previous knowledge, but provides the basics for those interested.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg22405941#msg22405941

Interestingly, I needed to link to a post directly before my post of interest. I still see the post, but am unable to link to it. More overzealous moderation? Someone erasing my previous history? I dunno.

In case I am shadowbanned - JJG - here is your response that quotes the most salient portion:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg22411843#msg22411843

Sure it is possible that some of "The Powers That BE" (TPTB) could be "out to get you" even when you are providing what could be useful to both bears and non-bears... and even daughters and non-daughters.... Go figure.