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Question: What happens first:
New ATH - 43 (69.4%)
<$60,000 - 19 (30.6%)
Total Voters: 62

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26390814 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
David M
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November 20, 2013, 10:01:54 PM
 #46681

You forget, that you are obligated to accept government currency as a payment.

No you aren't.  My business, my terms of trade.
adamstgBit
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November 20, 2013, 10:03:21 PM
 #46682

You forget, that you are obligated to accept government currency as a payment.

No you aren't.  My business, my terms of trade.


where in the world do you live?

hint: say the internet  Wink
jojo69
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November 20, 2013, 10:03:21 PM
 #46683

You forget, that you are obligated to accept government currency as a payment.

No you aren't.  My business, my terms of trade.


your plucky defiance is inspiring, however...

there are men with guns and state sanction to use them that beg to differ
Wekkel
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yes


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November 20, 2013, 10:03:28 PM
 #46684

Say bye bye to $500 for some time....

Sword Smith
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November 20, 2013, 10:04:34 PM
 #46685

Bitcoins advantages are technical and if you take that from bitcoin there is nothing left.
Not true. One of bitcoins main advantages is that inflation is predictable. Maybe you understand the technical aspects of bitcoins but you do not seem to understand the problems with the current monetary situation or the political implications of Bitcoin.
mb300sd
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November 20, 2013, 10:04:43 PM
 #46686

You forget, that you are obligated to accept government currency as a payment.

No you aren't.  My business, my terms of trade.


your plucky defiance is inspiring, however...

there are men with guns and state sanction to use them that beg to differ

Technically, you can refuse to sell something on whatever terms you want. You however, must accept USD for payment of debt.
PrymeTyme
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November 20, 2013, 10:05:26 PM
 #46687

cya laterz .. time for  some sleep ..


cheers
TheKoziTwo
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November 20, 2013, 10:05:45 PM
 #46688

But whatever. This is offtopic anyways and we will see whether bitcoin will be destroyed by the gold gold gold idiots or if it excels because of its technical advantages.
adamstgBit
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November 20, 2013, 10:06:22 PM
 #46689

But whatever. This is offtopic anyways and we will see whether bitcoin will be destroyed by the gold gold gold idiots or if it excels because of its technical advantages.


emotions are high  Grin
Sword Smith
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November 20, 2013, 10:07:05 PM
 #46690

But whatever. This is offtopic anyways and we will see whether bitcoin will be destroyed by the gold gold gold idiots or if it excels because of its technical advantages.

You are being way too friendly  Grin Grin
adamstgBit
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November 20, 2013, 10:07:44 PM
 #46691

if i was a billionaire i'd buy bitcoin to 1000 now just for kicks.
Carlor
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November 20, 2013, 10:08:44 PM
 #46692

Bitcoins advantages are technical and if you take that from bitcoin there is nothing left.
Not true. One of bitcoins main advantages is that inflation is predictable. Maybe you understand the technical aspects of bitcoins but you do not seem to understand the problems with the current monetary situation or the political implications of Bitcoin.
This is wrong. Bitcoin lives from being  a worldwide currency. As soon as you are not able to pay anything with it, it will lose its value. Just because something is "rare" doesn't mean it hast value. I can print 10.000 sheets with "this is xymoney" on it and say they have a value because I just made 10k. But the don't.
And the same goes for bitcoin. Bitcoins value only stems from it's (promises of) advantages over other payment systems. Since the beginning.
Sword Smith
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November 20, 2013, 10:08:57 PM
 #46693

if i was a billionaire i'd buy bitcoin to 1000 now just for kicks.
Maybe that's why you are not a billionare? You would spend millions just to see a number on a screen? Grin Grin
maz
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November 20, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
 #46694

That was brought up by Miss Ripple (or whatever her name was, the redhead) in the senate hearings, US citizens are obliged to accept dollars for payments but there's no restriction on other forms of payment instead of dollars.

THAT bitch!
crazy_rabbit
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November 20, 2013, 10:09:13 PM
 #46695

Say bye bye to $500 for some time....



who cares about $500 at BTC-E? I mean, to be honest about it.
David M
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November 20, 2013, 10:09:45 PM
 #46696

Technically, you can refuse to sell something on whatever terms you want. You however, must accept USD for payment of debt.

Exactly.  If I don't like the payment, I refuse and hence never raise a debt.
Sword Smith
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November 20, 2013, 10:10:08 PM
 #46697

Bitcoins advantages are technical and if you take that from bitcoin there is nothing left.
Not true. One of bitcoins main advantages is that inflation is predictable. Maybe you understand the technical aspects of bitcoins but you do not seem to understand the problems with the current monetary situation or the political implications of Bitcoin.
This is wrong. Bitcoin lives from being  a worldwide currency. As soon as you are not able to pay anything with it, it will lose its value. Just because something is "rare" doesn't mean it hast value. I can print 10.000 sheets with "this is xymoney" on it and say they have a value because I just made 10k. But the don't.
And the same goes for bitcoin. Bitcoins value only stems from it's (promises of) advantages over other payment systems. Since the beginning.
A currency must also be able to store value for the users to accept it. Ask John Law.
kurious
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November 20, 2013, 10:10:30 PM
 #46698

Bitcoin doesn't need to be a currency to be successful. It will in fact be wildly successful even if only functioning as a store of value, the tax havens amounts to trillions. The first phase is speculation and this is where we are now... people believe in bitcoins future potential and that is what drives the price up and the large market cap will make it viable for large fortunes to be stored in bitcoin, eventually it will stabilize at much higher prices. At that point it will work well as a way to settle debt even if we're not able to do as many transactions as other networks I don't think it matters. Micro-transactions can happen off-chain, big money stored safely away from government and bankers.

How can big money be stored away safely if bitcoin is still tied to fiat currency? If fiat currency collapses, bitcoin no longer has anything to compare itself to, so how would we express value then? Using valuation in bitcoin itself? How would that work since there's a limited amount...

bitcoin to hookers&blow ratio

I proposed this back in June (If I may quote a flippant post I made back then):

    
BTC Utilty "The Hooker Point"
July 06, 2013, 11:07:42 AM
   
Reply with quote Edit message Delete message  #1
I just posted this on a topic elsewhere, but I wanted to give it a thread of its own as it is about BTC price and utility which are fundamental concerns to us all:

Quote from: tokeweed on July 06, 2013, 09:26:13 AM
  i cant even get a hooker for btc.

This is one of the most insightful comments I have seen on this forum for some time.

As someone interested in economics, I think the establishment of a measure for the adoption level of a digital currency would be useful, and I think 'The Hooker Point' is perfect for it.

If we take an average city of (say) 100,000 inhabitants we can deem it to have reached this point when it is possible within the city's limits to find a locally available defined sexual service directly from a provider (without a 3rd party exchange involved) with a given currency in a (controlled) 24 hour period.

So a country can be defined by how many Hooker Point cities it has, or what proportion of its qualifying cities have reached the Hooker Point (for BTC).

Comparisons can be made over time and against other countries.

Since currencies go back to pre-literate times and prostitution is the oldest profession, it is a measure likely to remain current for the foreseeable future.


Further comment on price and utilty:
1. Market prices fall when more people want to sell than buy, and prices rise for the opposite reason.

2. People's choice as to whether they wish to be a buyer or seller is affected by their needs (entering or leaving a market due to the need to buy or sell what the market trades) or for reasons of sentiment (optimism or pessimism about the market price).

3. Although economics supposedly deals in rational situations in the market place, it is a fact that markets and sentiments are not necessarily rational.  A herd instinct, or copying instinct means that people often buy because people are buying - or sell because people are selling.

4. At present BTC has little practical utility (see 'Hooker Point' above).   Therefore, the market for it is much more heavily influenced by sentiment than other markets.  Since most people do not need to pay their rent or buy food with it, its value is almost entirely based on sentiment.

The only conclusion a rational person can reach in the light of the above is that any price predictions for BTC are very likely to be completely and utterly useless.
maz
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November 20, 2013, 10:11:39 PM
 #46699

Who's attempting to sustain this price at the moment? 500-600? is it trading bots? I tend to think human sentiment is to rally a drive up or get depressed together and go down, but who the hell trades in no mans land?
jojo69
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November 20, 2013, 10:12:53 PM
 #46700

Bitcoin doesn't need to be a currency to be successful. It will in fact be wildly successful even if only functioning as a store of value, the tax havens amounts to trillions. The first phase is speculation and this is where we are now... people believe in bitcoins future potential and that is what drives the price up and the large market cap will make it viable for large fortunes to be stored in bitcoin, eventually it will stabilize at much higher prices. At that point it will work well as a way to settle debt even if we're not able to do as many transactions as other networks I don't think it matters. Micro-transactions can happen off-chain, big money stored safely away from government and bankers.

How can big money be stored away safely if bitcoin is still tied to fiat currency? If fiat currency collapses, bitcoin no longer has anything to compare itself to, so how would we express value then? Using valuation in bitcoin itself? How would that work since there's a limited amount...

bitcoin to hookers&blow ratio

I proposed this back in June (If I may quote a flippant post I made back then):

    
BTC Utilty "The Hooker Point"
July 06, 2013, 11:07:42 AM
   
Reply with quote Edit message Delete message  #1
I just posted this on a topic elsewhere, but I wanted to give it a thread of its own as it is about BTC price and utility which are fundamental concerns to us all:

Quote from: tokeweed on July 06, 2013, 09:26:13 AM
  i cant even get a hooker for btc.

This is one of the most insightful comments I have seen on this forum for some time.

As someone interested in economics, I think the establishment of a measure for the adoption level of a digital currency would be useful, and I think 'The Hooker Point' is perfect for it.

If we take an average city of (say) 100,000 inhabitants we can deem it to have reached this point when it is possible within the city's limits to find a locally available defined sexual service directly from a provider (without a 3rd party exchange involved) with a given currency in a (controlled) 24 hour period.

So a country can be defined by how many Hooker Point cities it has, or what proportion of its qualifying cities have reached the Hooker Point (for BTC).

Comparisons can be made over time and against other countries.

Since currencies go back to pre-literate times and prostitution is the oldest profession, it is a measure likely to remain current for the foreseeable future.


Further comment on price and utilty:
1. Market prices fall when more people want to sell than buy, and prices rise for the opposite reason.

2. People's choice as to whether they wish to be a buyer or seller is affected by their needs (entering or leaving a market due to the need to buy or sell what the market trades) or for reasons of sentiment (optimism or pessimism about the market price).

3. Although economics supposedly deals in rational situations in the market place, it is a fact that markets and sentiments are not necessarily rational.  A herd instinct, or copying instinct means that people often buy because people are buying - or sell because people are selling.

4. At present BTC has little practical utility (see 'Hooker Point' above).   Therefore, the market for it is much more heavily influenced by sentiment than other markets.  Since most people do not need to pay their rent or buy food with it, its value is almost entirely based on sentiment.

The only conclusion a rational person can reach in the light of the above is that any price predictions for BTC are very likely to be completely and utterly useless.

wow, well alright then  Grin
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