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Question: What year will we achieve a new ATH?
2019 - 46 (29.7%)
2020 - 61 (39.4%)
2021 - 34 (21.9%)
2022 - 8 (5.2%)
2023 - 1 (0.6%)
Never - 5 (3.2%)
Total Voters: 155

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 21182130 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (24 posts by 13 users deleted.)
kingcolex
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March 24, 2019, 09:09:40 PM

In other news, what is WO take on giving btc to your own children? Worth it or idiotic since they don't know how to hold it safely?

I've been giving each of my progeny -- chillens and grandchillens -- one BTC (and one BCH ((and one BSV)) ) each year since years.

I look at the addresses each year to see how they're doing with them. All hodled tightly except for minimal percentages of daughter and one son, in whom I have instructed on the incremental laddered standing order plan.

Your practice alone is going to cause a BTC supply shortage.  Just think about the many poor folks around the world who are not even going to be able to own .1 BTC and many of your progeny will have several BTC each.  Wink

By the way, the bcash variants are not likely to have and impact on the world in any kind of meaningful way, and if they hold them more than a few years, they are likely to increasingly decrease in value - perhaps even faster than the dollar, so likely they should spend those bcash variants first.   or better yet, convert them into BTC. #gresham's law Tongue
Building a family dynasty? I like it, until the grand kids trades it all for Facebook coin.

I had already expressed a couple of years ago that I don't think it is a good idea (especially giving a whole coin each year... that is ridiculous)... but whatever.. it is a child rearing choice that is totally within his discretion.
I think it's more than great if he has the funds to do so and the patience to not be upset if they do something silly with it. (As he does occasionally check their addresses it seems) The second part would probably be the hardest.
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HI-TEC99
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March 24, 2019, 09:19:12 PM

Dirty little bug
skittering along the floor.
Look up to the moon.

Where's Last of the V8s? What have you done with him?
realr0ach
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March 24, 2019, 09:26:30 PM

Where's Last of the V8s? What have you done with him?

He's upset Basel III regulations cemented physical metals as the base of Exter's pyramid and not a word was spoken about imaginary, valueless, digital shitcoins that day.
Last of the V8s
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March 24, 2019, 09:28:22 PM

Dirty little bug
skittering along the floor.
Look up to the moon.

Where's Last of the V8s? What have you done with him?

HI-TEC99
didn't like V8s' haiku.
Talents are wasted.
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March 24, 2019, 09:28:58 PM

^
Bearmarket

which phase?
realr0ach
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March 24, 2019, 09:42:07 PM

If you ever plan to cash out some hundreds of thousands dollars or even just a few tens of thousands you better be able to prove the legal origin of it (if/when required to do so). Bonus if you can prove and track the entire history of it.

It's basically the same with EVERY asset. Ie: Suppose your father has some expensive Van Gogh. He, instead of donating you some (huge) money decides to just give it to you so that you can sell it for a huge amount of banking fiat in a Sotheby's auction and set you for life. But neither of you two declare the donation not pay the taxes (obviously). -> REKT!

Well, the same happens with Bitcoin. You need to prove how you obtained them, and when. You need to prove you didn't sold them previously and not pay due taxes. You need to pay your taxes.

And it is the same with cash.... it is just that in small quantities you can just USE it for daily expenses, etc... But you can't go use it to buy a home, a car, or anything "expensive" without having to prove the full trace of it.

For small quantities there's not much need to care though.

This is why Ibian lives on a shrimp boat and Elwar on a floating piece of styrofoam.
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March 24, 2019, 10:17:06 PM

via Imgflip Meme Generator

They Reading the WO lately??

A Bitcoin Baby Bull Market Haiku

BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY
BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY
BUY BUY BUY BUY BUY




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March 24, 2019, 10:31:48 PM

Can't wait for them to try and shift blame from decades of Jewish fraud to Brexit for economic collapse and then their faces when nobody buys their explanation.  Also, wasn't Last of the V8's a Brexit remainer? (lol)
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March 24, 2019, 10:46:25 PM

I find the articles regarding capital leaving the UK over Brexit quite entertaining.

After all, the UK would be able to make up its own policies to specifically draw that and even further capital in once the EU can no longer meddle.


Not pretending that I know shit about Brexit or its implications. But the arguments I've seen so far for it being bad were pretty weak (mostly focusing on short-term implications while completely ignoring the long-term).
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March 24, 2019, 10:51:24 PM

In the word "marriage",
you won't find the letter "I",
but you will find "us".

Trollgoossen's life in 2 years:

bitserve
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March 24, 2019, 10:53:25 PM

I find the articles regarding capital leaving the UK over Brexit quite entertaining.

After all, the UK would be able to make up its own policies to specifically draw that and even further capital in once the EU can no longer meddle.


Not pretending that I know shit about Brexit or its implications. But the arguments I've seen so far for it being bad were pretty weak (mostly focusing on short-term implications while completely ignoring the long-term).

I don't know much either... but I have the feeling that nowadays isolated countries do much worse than unions. Just a feeling.
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March 24, 2019, 10:55:35 PM

I don't know much either... but I have the feeling that nowadays isolated countries do much worse than unions. Just a feeling.

Then why are all the richest countries in the world all small with a few million people and not in the EU?  'Democracy' doesn't scale.  Only waste, inefficiency, fraud, and Ponzi scams do.
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March 24, 2019, 11:06:30 PM

Woo-hoo got my shi-shi cap!

Thanks, @xhomerx10

Just in time for BTC to break $4K and shoot the Moon!

#bullish #HODL
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March 24, 2019, 11:20:39 PM
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[...]
Not pretending that I know shit about Brexit or its implications. But the arguments I've seen so far for it being bad were pretty weak
So far I have only seen UK companies (including banks) opening a letterbox inside the EU, UK companies stocking supplies in the UK and stocking produced products outside the UK, and EU companies doing the reverse, to handle extended custom checks for a few weeks. No major moves of headquarters or factories, even with EU countries offering huge tax breaks to lure companies in.
I'm sure the UK will face some problems, short term those could even be more expensive to handle than the savings in contributions to the EU.
But everyone is completely ignoring the problems in the EU itself, especially there financial problems, and those will definitely affect the UK if they stay in the EU.
It is impossible to predict which problems will be worse and even impossible to know after the fact, since we cant do a double-blind test, but I don't think it is necessary bad for the UK even if the have some brexit problems. Even a hard no-deal brexit, followed by trade negotiation starting from a level playing field, could actually be better than the current deal options.
So far, the EU has not lifted even a finger to try and solve these (financial) problems to make the UK change there mind, so I'm not hopeful about that side of the equation. Instead of adjusting there budgets to a large (and large contributing) leaving member, the EU inflated there budgets even more and will have to sharply raise the contributions from the remaining members.
HairyMaclairy
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March 24, 2019, 11:33:11 PM
Last edit: March 24, 2019, 11:43:28 PM by HairyMaclairy

A lot of the Brexit issues relate to the privileged position the UK has as a member of the EU. For example financial passporting which allows UK financial institutions to sell financial services into the EU. With Brexit, this door slams shut.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/brexit-passporting-rights-eea-explained-what-does-it-mean-for-banks-economy-pound-euro-a8065131.html

These are the sorts of issues that are causing operations to move from Manchester and Leeds to Frankfurt, Dublin and Luxembourg. Ironically it is the lower paid white collar workers performing back office functions in the Brexit belt that will be hit hardest, along with pink collar functions like HR and PR.
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March 24, 2019, 11:36:00 PM

Would you be so kind as to enlighten me on slippage? In what way would it screw with trading?

I would assume the implication was that: if real volume be truly that large, then slippage should be much less than that experienced.
I understand the correlation between volume and slippage, but I'm not sure how exactly those contracts work as I've never used or read into them.

The particular trade that I found galling had me enter a stop loss at $xx93 (which was below a major support point).  The price fell through the support and the sell order executed at $xx20, which is $73 in slippage.

The most slippage I have previously experienced on breaking major support was $13 on Bitstamp at a much higher price (therefor far lower slippage in percentage terms).

This leads me to believe that either: (a) Bitmex has exceptionally poor liquidity or (b) their proprietary trading desk is front running trades or (c) they are deliberately discriminating against fish in the order book.

The net result is the same.

While there are some complexities around whether one uses the last, mark or index price as trigger, it really all comes out in the same place.  None of this should be impacted by the particular rules of the instrument, and this was not a liquidation (I have never been liquidated and don’t intend to start).

I have had a number of other trades on Bitmex where my slippage has been about 10x what I would expect.   Given that Bitmex supposedly has 10x the volume of Bitstamp and 10x liquidity, something is rotten in the State of Seychelles.  I would go so far as to say either they are front running their own customers or their organic volume is about 1% of what they claim.  

Makes sense. OR... maybe traders at Bitmex are *WAY* more prone to using leverage and stop loses which causes *HUGE* slippage due to "cascading" than Bitstamp traders. Think about it... it also makes some sense.

Something like this is what I was thinking too.  It may NOT cause as BIG of an effect to completely discount Hairy's criticism, but there could be some magnifying effect that happens with the use of leverage and margin trading that disproportionately causes the prices swings to be much greater.. and perhaps that would be because some BIGGER players (and it does not even have to be Bitmex, though logically they would seem to be the most likely suspect, because if some other BIGG players were doing it, then Bitmex would be able to verify what happened and develop ways to put a stop to it or at least ameliorate some of the effects) .... so yeah, the more that I write, through this thought process, the more I am coming over to Hairy's suspicions about the real cause, which is ultimately, way less liquidity than they claim to have...

I suppose that it would make a difference if it rises to 90% less liquidity or merely 50% less or some more innocent misrepresentation.   
bitserve
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March 24, 2019, 11:43:25 PM

Would you be so kind as to enlighten me on slippage? In what way would it screw with trading?

I would assume the implication was that: if real volume be truly that large, then slippage should be much less than that experienced.
I understand the correlation between volume and slippage, but I'm not sure how exactly those contracts work as I've never used or read into them.

The particular trade that I found galling had me enter a stop loss at $xx93 (which was below a major support point).  The price fell through the support and the sell order executed at $xx20, which is $73 in slippage.

The most slippage I have previously experienced on breaking major support was $13 on Bitstamp at a much higher price (therefor far lower slippage in percentage terms).

This leads me to believe that either: (a) Bitmex has exceptionally poor liquidity or (b) their proprietary trading desk is front running trades or (c) they are deliberately discriminating against fish in the order book.

The net result is the same.

While there are some complexities around whether one uses the last, mark or index price as trigger, it really all comes out in the same place.  None of this should be impacted by the particular rules of the instrument, and this was not a liquidation (I have never been liquidated and don’t intend to start).

I have had a number of other trades on Bitmex where my slippage has been about 10x what I would expect.   Given that Bitmex supposedly has 10x the volume of Bitstamp and 10x liquidity, something is rotten in the State of Seychelles.  I would go so far as to say either they are front running their own customers or their organic volume is about 1% of what they claim.  

Makes sense. OR... maybe traders at Bitmex are *WAY* more prone to using leverage and stop loses which causes *HUGE* slippage due to "cascading" than Bitstamp traders. Think about it... it also makes some sense.

Something like this is what I was thinking too.  It may NOT cause as BIG of an effect to completely discount Hairy's criticism, but there could be some magnifying effect that happens with the use of leverage and margin trading that disproportionately causes the prices swings to be much greater.. and perhaps that would be because some BIGGER players (and it does not even have to be Bitmex, though logically they would seem to be the most likely suspect, because if some other BIGG players were doing it, then Bitmex would be able to verify what happened and develop ways to put a stop to it or at least ameliorate some of the effects) .... so yeah, the more that I write, through this thought process, the more I am coming over to Hairy's suspicions about the real cause, which is ultimately, way less liquidity than they claim to have...

I suppose that it would make a difference if it rises to 90% less liquidity or merely 50% less or some more innocent misrepresentation.  

Thr thing is we don't have enough information to reach a clear conclusion. Without it, there are several alternative plausible explanations. Who knows.....
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March 24, 2019, 11:49:19 PM

In other news, what is WO take on giving btc to your own children? Worth it or idiotic since they don't know how to hold it safely?

I've been giving each of my progeny -- chillens and grandchillens -- one BTC (and one BCH ((and one BSV)) ) each year since years.

I look at the addresses each year to see how they're doing with them. All hodled tightly except for minimal percentages of daughter and one son, in whom I have instructed on the incremental laddered standing order plan.

Your practice alone is going to cause a BTC supply shortage.  Just think about the many poor folks around the world who are not even going to be able to own .1 BTC and many of your progeny will have several BTC each.  Wink

By the way, the bcash variants are not likely to have and impact on the world in any kind of meaningful way, and if they hold them more than a few years, they are likely to increasingly decrease in value - perhaps even faster than the dollar, so likely they should spend those bcash variants first.   or better yet, convert them into BTC. #gresham's law Tongue
Building a family dynasty? I like it, until the grand kids trades it all for Facebook coin.

I had already expressed a couple of years ago that I don't think it is a good idea (especially giving a whole coin each year... that is ridiculous)... but whatever.. it is a child rearing choice that is totally within his discretion.
I think it's more than great if he has the funds to do so and the patience to not be upset if they do something silly with it. (As he does occasionally check their addresses it seems) The second part would probably be the hardest.

In my thinking it's not about generosity exactly, but instead trying to figure out ways that kids are going to develop their own self initiatives.

Let's say jbreher got into bitcoin around the same time that he began his forum account in 2011, and therefore started giving 1BTC per christmas per kid/grandkid then living.  The value of that gift changed stupendously, and the kid/grandkids who are at least 8 years old received 8BTC each, so far.

Perhaps, I don't know enough about the situation, but it seems both sloppy and reckless, from my perspective  - and jbreher's earlier explanation did not make too much sense to me, just like the quasi-unrelated concept of his ongoing support of bcash (including faketoshi) don't make much sense to me.  And, all of those are within his discretion... and the only way that we (am I using the royal we, here?) know about all of those ideations and practices of his and can talk about them, is because, at various times, he told us about them.
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March 24, 2019, 11:53:27 PM

and perhaps that would be because some BIGGER players

Word on the street is that JayJuanGee alias "mouthpanties" is one of the biggest players of all:

bitserve
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March 24, 2019, 11:56:48 PM

In other news, what is WO take on giving btc to your own children? Worth it or idiotic since they don't know how to hold it safely?

I've been giving each of my progeny -- chillens and grandchillens -- one BTC (and one BCH ((and one BSV)) ) each year since years.

I look at the addresses each year to see how they're doing with them. All hodled tightly except for minimal percentages of daughter and one son, in whom I have instructed on the incremental laddered standing order plan.

Your practice alone is going to cause a BTC supply shortage.  Just think about the many poor folks around the world who are not even going to be able to own .1 BTC and many of your progeny will have several BTC each.  Wink

By the way, the bcash variants are not likely to have and impact on the world in any kind of meaningful way, and if they hold them more than a few years, they are likely to increasingly decrease in value - perhaps even faster than the dollar, so likely they should spend those bcash variants first.   or better yet, convert them into BTC. #gresham's law Tongue
Building a family dynasty? I like it, until the grand kids trades it all for Facebook coin.

I had already expressed a couple of years ago that I don't think it is a good idea (especially giving a whole coin each year... that is ridiculous)... but whatever.. it is a child rearing choice that is totally within his discretion.
I think it's more than great if he has the funds to do so and the patience to not be upset if they do something silly with it. (As he does occasionally check their addresses it seems) The second part would probably be the hardest.

In my thinking it's not about generosity exactly, but instead trying to figure out ways that kids are going to develop their own self initiatives.

Let's say jbreher got into bitcoin around the same time that he began his forum account in 2011, and therefore started giving 1BTC per christmas per kid/grandkid then living.  The value of that gift changed stupendously, and the kid/grandkids who are at least 8 years old received 8BTC each, so far.

Perhaps, I don't know enough about the situation, but it seems both sloppy and reckless, from my perspective  - and jbreher's earlier explanation did not make too much sense to me, just like the quasi-unrelated concept of his ongoing support of bcash (including faketoshi) don't make much sense to me.  And, all of those are within his discretion... and the only way that we (am I using the royal we, here?) know about all of those ideations and practices of his and can talk about them, is because, at various times, he told us about them.

Jbreher is right in what he is doing (in regards to his family gifts). You are wrong. We already discussed this in the past Wink

Of course most of the part of it is not just giving (that's the easy part in this case) but also educating about it. I am assuming jbreher also has that part well covered.
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