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Question: Will we close Nov. at or above Plan B's posited minimum of $98K?
Yes - 43 (37.4%)
No - 72 (62.6%)
Total Voters: 115

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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 25492479 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (158 posts by 14 users with 9 merit deleted.)
BitcoinGirl.Club
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March 16, 2019, 10:53:13 AM

Morning WO Brothers. Going to buy again today, not sure if I should do it in the next hour or wait until later. We seem to be walking the $4,000 tightrope. I know it won’t matter in the long term but it pisses me off when I buy & the price goes down in the short term, hmmmmm.
Never regret with your bitcoins brother. Good morning too.
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March 16, 2019, 10:54:48 AM

What did I just say about comment sections?

What are you talking about? They do have a comment section.
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March 16, 2019, 10:56:06 AM

What did I just say about comment sections?

What are you talking about? They do have a comment section.
Ah. It was hidden, fair enough. Yet with zero comments. Why do you suppose that is?
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March 16, 2019, 10:57:35 AM

wow, this thread really went somehow out of shape...is there even anything price related at all?
in a more direct way then memes, half naked girls, praising breakfast and ranting about jews  Grin
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March 16, 2019, 11:02:41 AM

wow, this thread really went somehow out of shape...is there even anything price related at all?
in a more direct way then memes, half naked girls, praising breakfast and ranting about jews  Grin

WO has everything if you are not informed 🙂
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March 16, 2019, 11:13:10 AM



WHEN MOON?
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March 16, 2019, 11:15:39 AM

So you admit you are religious obviously, otherwise, by your own logic, you would not use the term Hell or Devil.

I simply stated using the phrase "religion is the root of all evil" is an oxymoron since you can't define "evil" without a religious context.  As for what I believe personally, I state what the evidence of the observable universe shows here:

https://steemit.com/science/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-25-computer-science-proves-the-existence-of-a-variable-known-as-god-but-not-what-god-actually-is
I'd define the prime mover as empty consciousness. Or more precisely nothing.

That which is no thing (mind the space) is consciousness and the prime mover of everything.

Without consciousness even a particle would have no awareness of gravity, and gravity would have no awareness of what it acts upon.

It is also why consciousness is the hard question of science and philosophy, because it is the only thing that can not make reference to itself.

In the Bible it's the logos. In science it's the state at t = 0 of the big bang. In a human life it's the time of birth. We are nothing, we come from nowhere, we fill ourselves with experience, and then we return to nothing. That which moves us is the prime mover.

If you think about it, an omniscient omnipresent and omnipotent God would be aware of every moment that is to come at the same time. This implies that God experiences no change, otherwise he would not be omniscient. In order for God to experience anything he must discard knowledge in order to create time by recollecting the information (what we call remembering). This also provides a strong case for the seemingly fractal nature of the universe.

One implication is that we are all one and the same, but looking at "things" from different perspectives in space and time. Which again, shines a different light on "love thy neighbour as thyself" (for he is you and you are him).
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March 16, 2019, 11:22:27 AM

I’m not going to reveal what I voted because it would possibly reveal how many coins I have.

 Full Disclosure: I voted 1000+ BTC in the poll.

 Right now, I'd consider 1000 BTC @ $4k not being a "fuckyoucoiner"

 2022 time-frame, however, well, let us discuss the issues further, on our WO Private Islands.

 It would be neat for all of us to just buy out an entire archipelago, and turn it into some sort of fruity libertarian utopia.

 Every Thursday, we could scoot around on our jet-skis-made-up-as-mock-pirate-ships, and Nerf-Rocket the shit out of JJG's island.

 Saturday nights would be designated weekly party night DJ'd by yours truly, and hosted by Big Dicked Ginger Rick on our island.

 LFC_Bitcoin would be in charge of pharmaceuticals.

 Mic and CryptoQueen could rock the bar.

 I mean, I can dare to dream, right ?
If we can make this work in a way that guarantees safety I would be more than interested in this. Although I would suggest that we'd set up some learning outlets as well as think up random new shit to try out. A regular schedule of learning instruments for example. Also gaming nights?

Basically just keep things varied enough to not get bored while not just outright turning into a retired super rich consumer drone. Not sure what a good balance of laziness and challenge would be though, but at such a time we could probably get someone to plan shit from us and have them adjust it based on everybody's input.


Also, a fucking Takeshi's Castle type parkour course? A racing track?
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March 16, 2019, 11:24:57 AM

I've seen this shit 1000 times before.  The second any of this stuff starts coming out of someone's mouth, the market immediately implodes afterwards.  There's contrarian investing for you.
It's more about the mass of people doing this. I've been thinking about the future in similar ways all the way down. Right now most people are still scared, otherwise the market would've heated up significantly.
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March 16, 2019, 11:27:31 AM

+ 3 Merit’s for putting a smile on my face. It ain't no dream Bob, it’s a premonition - 2022 or early 2023.
2025~2030ish.

Need two waves to get x10k without extremely lucky shitcoin picking. And I doubt that we'd have 500~1000m combined to go x50~ and thus be able to just get that plan going as if it were buying candy.
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March 16, 2019, 11:29:32 AM

Ill bring a few boxes of cool records if that technology is supported

 Cool
Hell yeah, vinyl ftw.
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March 16, 2019, 11:30:43 AM

I’m still working on a basis for numbers being a finite field.  Which makes sense if you think space time is bounded.  Less so if not.  
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March 16, 2019, 11:34:47 AM

Ok work with me here.  How do we achieve the assumption that numbers are a finite field?

Feel free to refer me to beginner level reading to save you typing it all out.
As for a "beginner level" introduction, I'm not really aware of any that isn't gritty rigorous Math. And in that case any would be as good as any other I suppose, since the definitions are always the same (except for perhaps the symbols used). If you feel like digging deeper I'm sure you'll find any number of resources on Google. All my notes and books for these topics are in non-English though, so I can't recommend you any reference here. But alas.


Assumptions are created out of more or less thin air. Generally based on past experiences (I'm not sure if we can arrive at any assumption without making references to previous ones, which is a problem in and of itself). It's also not exactly that numbers "are" a finite field, they can be depending on how many you have to play with. The numbers we usually use are not a finite field, you always have a unique "+1". However.


In the case of finite fields, if you want to go from the "human experience" side you could think of it like this.

If you think that infinity exists, then there's not much reason to argue here since you can just keep adding numbers and always get a unique new one, so 1+1 will always be 2 in that world.

If you however believe that infinity can't exist in reality, then the only conclusion is that any field of numbers must be finite, because you'll eventually run out. And in that world you eventually come full circle, otherwise you can't have a number field that functions in the way we understand numbers. It is the only way to formalize our natural understanding of numbers (that I am currently aware of).


As for what fields are, here's a very brief overview that leaves out a fair deal of the gritty parts that are necessary to formalize this. But this should hopefully give somewhat of a more formal intuition that you could compare against our natural intuition.

A field can be any set of numbers that satisfies a few properties. The most important ones for the topic we're having are the existence of a set of elements (or numbers), the existence of two operations (e.g. addition and multiplication), the existence of a neutral element for each operation, and the existence of an inverse element for each operation.

Let's take {0,1} as the set of numbers. And addition and multiplication as its two operations. The operation "o" (+ or *) now has to ensure that each element has a unique inverse element. So if you take any element X , there must be another element Y such that X o Y spits out the neutral element regarding "o". For addition this is 0 (you add 0, shit happens), for multiplication it's 1 (you multiply by 1, nothing happens). If you think about it, whenever you invert a number you get its neutral, 3 * 1/3 = 1, 3 + (-3) = 0.

If these properties are violated you can somehow show that the whole natural intuition of numbers just breaks down, but I can't think of a good example on the spot. Been too long since I've done anything in this area.


In the usual fields the inverse element would just be -X for addition and 1/x for multiplication. In this finite field you can't do this, because "1/1" clearly does not exist as neither does an element called "-1".

However, with the circular arrangement you can quickly see that:

0+0 = 0
1+1 = 0

0*1 = 0
1*0 = 0
1*1 = 1

Hence, each element has an inverse regarding multiplication and addition, and our intuition still works. This way to look at it satisfies the requirements of a field. It just so happens to be finite. This curiously doesn't work for any set of numbers either, the number of elements has to be infinite, a prime, or a prime power.
If you want to get technical, then "2" in the way we normally understand it won't give you "2+2 = 0", but there is an abstract field that extends {0,1} in a way such that the elements that you could "call '2'" would satisfy 2+2 = 0. You can easily get 2+3=0 for {0,1,2,3,4} with the usual addition though (check this yourself if you'd like as an exercise).


As for 'why' this works, I doubt anybody knows. Emergent properties?

Essentially, fields are merely a formalization of the way in which we naturally came to use numbers based on our experience of reality. And the formalization naturally gives rise to both finite and infinite fields. There are also weird fields that have polynomials as their "numbers" and where "1" is suddenly a polynomial (the constant polynomial 1). But you would never expect either of these by not carefully thinking about the fundamentals, what you already know, the implications of either, or what other ways you could view what you already know in.

These weird mysteries are why I'm against quickly rushing to conclusions on any subject and prefer looking for as many explanations and vantage points as I am currently capable of. The universe has a way to always screw us when we think we "know", and to reward us with new exciting experiences if we remain open.

Quoting this so I don’t lose it. Am working on this as well. 
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March 16, 2019, 11:38:08 AM

Not sure, but I need to know. For science. Roll Eyes
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March 16, 2019, 11:39:50 AM

Ok work with me here.  How do we achieve the assumption that numbers are a finite field?

Feel free to refer me to beginner level reading to save you typing it all out.
As for a "beginner level" introduction, I'm not really aware of any that isn't gritty rigorous Math. And in that case any would be as good as any other I suppose, since the definitions are always the same (except for perhaps the symbols used). If you feel like digging deeper I'm sure you'll find any number of resources on Google. All my notes and books for these topics are in non-English though, so I can't recommend you any reference here. But alas.


Assumptions are created out of more or less thin air. Generally based on past experiences (I'm not sure if we can arrive at any assumption without making references to previous ones, which is a problem in and of itself). It's also not exactly that numbers "are" a finite field, they can be depending on how many you have to play with. The numbers we usually use are not a finite field, you always have a unique "+1". However.


In the case of finite fields, if you want to go from the "human experience" side you could think of it like this.

If you think that infinity exists, then there's not much reason to argue here since you can just keep adding numbers and always get a unique new one, so 1+1 will always be 2 in that world.

If you however believe that infinity can't exist in reality, then the only conclusion is that any field of numbers must be finite, because you'll eventually run out. And in that world you eventually come full circle, otherwise you can't have a number field that functions in the way we understand numbers. It is the only way to formalize our natural understanding of numbers (that I am currently aware of).


As for what fields are, here's a very brief overview that leaves out a fair deal of the gritty parts that are necessary to formalize this. But this should hopefully give somewhat of a more formal intuition that you could compare against our natural intuition.

A field can be any set of numbers that satisfies a few properties. The most important ones for the topic we're having are the existence of a set of elements (or numbers), the existence of two operations (e.g. addition and multiplication), the existence of a neutral element for each operation, and the existence of an inverse element for each operation.

Let's take {0,1} as the set of numbers. And addition and multiplication as its two operations. The operation "o" (+ or *) now has to ensure that each element has a unique inverse element. So if you take any element X , there must be another element Y such that X o Y spits out the neutral element regarding "o". For addition this is 0 (you add 0, shit happens), for multiplication it's 1 (you multiply by 1, nothing happens). If you think about it, whenever you invert a number you get its neutral, 3 * 1/3 = 1, 3 + (-3) = 0.

If these properties are violated you can somehow show that the whole natural intuition of numbers just breaks down, but I can't think of a good example on the spot. Been too long since I've done anything in this area.


In the usual fields the inverse element would just be -X for addition and 1/x for multiplication. In this finite field you can't do this, because "1/1" clearly does not exist as neither does an element called "-1".

However, with the circular arrangement you can quickly see that:

0+0 = 0
1+1 = 0

0*1 = 0
1*0 = 0
1*1 = 1

Hence, each element has an inverse regarding multiplication and addition, and our intuition still works. This way to look at it satisfies the requirements of a field. It just so happens to be finite. This curiously doesn't work for any set of numbers either, the number of elements has to be infinite, a prime, or a prime power.
If you want to get technical, then "2" in the way we normally understand it won't give you "2+2 = 0", but there is an abstract field that extends {0,1} in a way such that the elements that you could "call '2'" would satisfy 2+2 = 0. You can easily get 2+3=0 for {0,1,2,3,4} with the usual addition though (check this yourself if you'd like as an exercise).


As for 'why' this works, I doubt anybody knows. Emergent properties?

Essentially, fields are merely a formalization of the way in which we naturally came to use numbers based on our experience of reality. And the formalization naturally gives rise to both finite and infinite fields. There are also weird fields that have polynomials as their "numbers" and where "1" is suddenly a polynomial (the constant polynomial 1). But you would never expect either of these by not carefully thinking about the fundamentals, what you already know, the implications of either, or what other ways you could view what you already know in.

These weird mysteries are why I'm against quickly rushing to conclusions on any subject and prefer looking for as many explanations and vantage points as I am currently capable of. The universe has a way to always screw us when we think we "know", and to reward us with new exciting experiences if we remain open.

Quoting this so I don’t lose it. Am working on this as well.  

double quote for safety reasons.

can you guys f***ing tell me what about you're talking??  Shocked Huh

EDIT: some CS stuff from your days in university? Formal Language Theory?
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March 16, 2019, 11:39:59 AM

Every Thursday, we could scoot around on our jet-skis-made-up-as-mock-pirate-ships, and Nerf-Rocket the shit out of JJG's island.
............ I mean, I can dare to dream, right ?
Remember what happened to Snowball in Animal Farm?  or Piggy in Lord of the Flies?
Not looking good for JJG in this "dream".
I studied Lord Of The Flies at school for English GCSE, got a B grade lol.
As soon as dat conch got smashed shit started going down Cheesy
Ahhhh memories of being at school - What a waste of time that was.

OK. See... I have wordy-man on ignore, so I would not normally see his post, but he has a terribly bad attitude about this possible utopia.

He's not thinking of "fun-factor" for defensive purposes on his end.

Can you imagine ? Coconut trebuchets, slings, and cannons, for example, aimed with some level of skill at us scooting Nerf-Gun-Pirates ?

At worst, some dude gets knocked the fuck off his scooter, life-jacket comes into play, and "pirate-squad" immediately tends to any fallen team-mates.

At best, coconuts float on water, so we'll have a bountiful harvest upon retreat.

Perhaps we up our game, and develop jet-skis with some sort of hydrostatic-pressure based mobile cannons, capable of returning the coconuts, softly, back to JJG's island.

Do I have to plan EVERYTHING ?!??

Please continue.
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March 16, 2019, 11:50:58 AM

can you guys f***ing tell me what about you're talking??  Shocked Huh

Someone (I forgot who) made some post about there being no absolute truths or somesusch.  I object to this as I think it a cover for all sorts of bad behaviours like “alternative facts” so challenged on the basis that 2+2 always = 4. 

Of course I don’t know any higher order mathematics so was quickly proved wrong.  Now I am trying to understand why I was wrong. 
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March 16, 2019, 11:51:56 AM

No christian women. Which is what matters.

What kind of retarded answer is that?

Any way. I am tired of you. Back to the ignore list.
Nope. Justify your position. Why are muslims better than christians according to you?

No one is better i’m raised a christian.... though later seen my mother supposed to be far far far jewish (also raised christian as her mom, but its a mother to daughter and so on going thing.....) but as a baptist christian and been raised one (not hard never really went to Church)
Only on the childshool ..... cause both my parents weren’t busy with anything of religion
But i have friends from al kinds of religion and i never think i’m better as any of them
I sometimes just think its pity those living the extreme religion lives cause they really mis so much in live
Land that Goes for all the religion peeps i can understand one believing in something, but don’t live the extreme lives cause nobody Ask to do that .....

the best religion is science, it explains everything with real evidence, it explains the differences with a logic that convinces people. religions speak of the relationship between human beings and god. science speaks of the relationships between human beings and their environment including nature.
Tautology.

But yes.
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March 16, 2019, 11:54:35 AM
Last edit: March 16, 2019, 12:20:02 PM by Last of the V8s

http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1913 “Finite Field Arithmetic.” Chapter 1: Genesis.
-for those who are a little further ahead.
-can talk to the author here http://logs.bvulpes.com/asciilifeform?d=2019-3-1 well on freenode irc #asciilifeform
-towards a sane RSA yay
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March 16, 2019, 11:56:21 AM

is Bitcoin done or are our expectations too high? do we need more patience?

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