Biodom
Legendary
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Activity: 3822
Merit: 4099
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December 17, 2020, 10:08:12 PM |
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.. so it seems to me that shaving off some lil corns along the way or just consuming goods and services here and there does not really seem like a bad thing.. including the considerations of consuming some other kinds of investments if anything strikes the fancy of the HODLER who happens to have way more than 90%+ in bitcoin, largely due to BTC price appreciation rather than being irresponsible in any kind of way related to how such BTC HODLer had acquired such BTC in the earlier years.
Yes, but it is just strategic thinking 101. For a more advanced course consider that rich rarely sell their assets and btc is precisely that-an asset. When you sell an asset, you get hit with the cap gains tax (at least in US), I think that at least Germany and Portugal (maybe Denmark as well-not sure) don't have cap gains on btc sells. What do rich (like Musk) do? They borrow against the asset in $$. Let's say that instead of selling 20% of btc at 20K (for easier calc) you borrow 20% of the net current value at yearly 5% (realistic numbers). So, essentially, you got cash equal to 20% of your stash without selling anything. If btc goes down, you keep paying the loan from your fiat cash flow (it has to be significant and positive, of course). If btc goes up, for example 100%(to 40k, quite realistic), you sell 10% to buy back your loan (note that you only need to sell 10%, not 20). The end result-you have 90% of the original stash, was able to do something with 20% of the original value (invest, buy a house, etc), paid only less than half tax (comparing to the original tax) with less than half because you can possibly deduct something of the loan interest, not 100% sure about that. How do you propose to manage margin calls? 20% LTV means margin calls are unlikely. It has to drop more than 80% from the current price. For more-You can buy crazy puts on ledger X or Deribit-it should not be too expensive.
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El duderino_
Legendary
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Activity: 2576
Merit: 12527
BTC + Crossfit, living life.
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December 17, 2020, 10:14:20 PM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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Ok I’m calling the top for 2020 at $23,777.
Let’s see how well this comment ages. I am not trading this (hodl only) but just calling the top for fun. YMMV.
Me = JJG ..... Hairybeary.... Only shorter text
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OutOfMemory
Legendary
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Activity: 1610
Merit: 3203
Man who stares at charts
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December 17, 2020, 10:29:40 PM |
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^ LOL EDIT: Sorry, that was too short. Rules and all... We're on the way through $23k again.
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serveria.com
Legendary
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Activity: 2310
Merit: 1184
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
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December 17, 2020, 10:40:02 PM |
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kurious
Legendary
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Activity: 2590
Merit: 1643
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December 17, 2020, 10:41:56 PM |
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I'm with Bob that he started the breakthrough beyond 20K. period.
Confirmed. I think December 16th from now on should be Gay Christmas Card Day in Bob's honour.
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serveria.com
Legendary
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Activity: 2310
Merit: 1184
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
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December 17, 2020, 10:44:02 PM |
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I guess we're going down now, after traditional AYH on Dec 17.
No way! Because... reasons... and gay cards! We can go down a bit but only from $28-30k area. And only in case there will be some actual sellers.
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serveria.com
Legendary
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Activity: 2310
Merit: 1184
Privacy Servers. Since 2009.
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December 17, 2020, 10:46:57 PM |
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Unbelievable, but the card worked this time too!
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jojo69
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Activity: 3234
Merit: 4415
diamond-handed zealot
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December 17, 2020, 10:55:10 PM |
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bullrun2024bro
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Activity: 1652
Merit: 4439
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December 17, 2020, 11:03:05 PM Merited by DaRude (1), ivomm (1) |
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Grayscale just updated their info sheet. Almost 13 billion in BTC. And this is just the beginning... 12/17/20 UPDATE: Net Assets Under Management, Holdings per Share, and Market Price per Share for our Investment Products.
Total AUM: $15.3 billion Source: https://twitter.com/Grayscale/status/1339689307351756802
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explorer
Legendary
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Activity: 2016
Merit: 1259
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December 17, 2020, 11:03:55 PM |
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I voted 27000+ why not?
I would prefer a lot of sideways movement but I am think it may jump to 30k before years end.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit, now that we are back in the groove. Not that <20k is totally dead, yet...
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explorer
Legendary
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Activity: 2016
Merit: 1259
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December 17, 2020, 11:09:46 PM |
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I guess this feels similar to when we busted our 1k ATH... Feels nothing like when we hit 20k last time. ........ #HODL' good times!
.... I agree with you -- For the most part I was referring to the current sentiment. I feel like this 20k is closer to when we broke 1k ATH and we have much more room to grow. Let's say we remove the need to sell for living expenses and the original goal was to one day exchange corn to fiat. I feel that as BTC continues to grow, people's urge to swap to fiat will drop. Years ago or just asking a nocoiner what they think they need to retire, the typical answer is in fiat terms. I see this changing over time as BTC grows. Still far from that at the moment but that is the direction I see things moving. I assume it won't be in BTC terms either... maybe a basket of digital assets that return a predictable rate. tdlr; hodl. Anything quantified in dollars beyond a couple years seems foolish, to me.
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samson
Legendary
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Activity: 2098
Merit: 1070
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December 17, 2020, 11:15:52 PM |
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.. so it seems to me that shaving off some lil corns along the way or just consuming goods and services here and there does not really seem like a bad thing.. including the considerations of consuming some other kinds of investments if anything strikes the fancy of the HODLER who happens to have way more than 90%+ in bitcoin, largely due to BTC price appreciation rather than being irresponsible in any kind of way related to how such BTC HODLer had acquired such BTC in the earlier years.
Yes, but it is just strategic thinking 101. For a more advanced course consider that rich rarely sell their assets and btc is precisely that-an asset. When you sell an asset, you get hit with the cap gains tax (at least in US), I think that at least Germany and Portugal (maybe Denmark as well-not sure) don't have cap gains on btc sells. What do rich (like Musk) do? They borrow against the asset in $$. Let's say that instead of selling 20% of btc at 20K (for easier calc) you borrow 20% of the net current value at yearly 5% (realistic numbers). So, essentially, you got cash equal to 20% of your stash without selling anything. If btc goes down, you keep paying the loan from your fiat cash flow (it has to be significant and positive, of course). If btc goes up, for example 100%(to 40k, quite realistic), you sell 10% to buy back your loan (note that you only need to sell 10%, not 20). The end result-you have 90% of the original stash, was able to do something with 20% of the original value (invest, buy a house, etc), paid only less than half tax (comparing to the original tax) with less than half because you can possibly deduct something of the loan interest, not 100% sure about that. What he said ^ This is the way..........When BTC becomes collateral held in an escrow operated by a bank then there really will be no limit........
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explorer
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2016
Merit: 1259
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December 17, 2020, 11:20:42 PM |
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.. so it seems to me that shaving off some lil corns along the way or just consuming goods and services here and there does not really seem like a bad thing.. including the considerations of consuming some other kinds of investments if anything strikes the fancy of the HODLER who happens to have way more than 90%+ in bitcoin, largely due to BTC price appreciation rather than being irresponsible in any kind of way related to how such BTC HODLer had acquired such BTC in the earlier years.
Yes, but it is just strategic thinking 101. For a more advanced course consider that rich rarely sell their assets and btc is precisely that-an asset. When you sell an asset, you get hit with the cap gains tax (at least in US), I think that at least Germany and Portugal (maybe Denmark as well-not sure) don't have cap gains on btc sells. What do rich (like Musk) do? They borrow against the asset in $$. Let's say that instead of selling 20% of btc at 20K (for easier calc) you borrow 20% of the net current value at yearly 5% (realistic numbers). So, essentially, you got cash equal to 20% of your stash without selling anything. If btc goes down, you keep paying the loan from your fiat cash flow (it has to be significant and positive, of course). If btc goes up, for example 100%(to 40k, quite realistic), you sell 10% to buy back your loan (note that you only need to sell 10%, not 20). The end result-you have 90% of the original stash, was able to do something with 20% of the original value (invest, buy a house, etc), paid only less than half tax (comparing to the original tax) with less than half because you can possibly deduct something of the loan interest, not 100% sure about that. What he said ^ This is the way..........When BTC becomes collateral held in an escrow operated by a bank then there really will be no limit........ It all comes back around to Not Your Keys... But perhaps a worthwhile risk for a small serving of corn, for some people.
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bitcoinPsycho
Legendary
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Activity: 2548
Merit: 2227
$120000 in 2024 Confirmed
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December 17, 2020, 11:22:31 PM |
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Brace
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BobLawblaw
Legendary
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Activity: 1844
Merit: 5587
Neighborhood Shenanigans Dispenser
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December 17, 2020, 11:38:36 PM |
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You just had to go there. Spoil the party for everyone. Bastard. -10 WO Merits
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ivomm
Legendary
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Activity: 1870
Merit: 2932
All good things to those who wait
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December 17, 2020, 11:58:49 PM Last edit: December 18, 2020, 07:00:05 AM by ivomm Merited by 600watt (1), Phil_S (1) |
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"If there was ever a Fear of Missing Out moment it was Wednesday afternoon when Bitcoin hit $20,000 and then just kept on going...." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-17/bitcoin-price-what-investors-need-know-before-buying-the-cryptocurrencyIn the video they are talking about consolidating 2021-2022 in the 500K-1mil range. This is institutional FOMO, gentlemen! We can't even count the companies who have already invested some spare cash (you know pocket money 100 mil to 1bil and more) as a hedge against inflation. This is just the beginning of a new era of mass adoption. Nobody is talking about 100K anymore . Overtaking gold seems also a modest prediction nowadays.
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Toxic2040
Legendary
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Activity: 1792
Merit: 4141
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#stronghands
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AlcoHoDL
Legendary
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Activity: 2436
Merit: 4381
Addicted to HoDLing!
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December 18, 2020, 12:17:05 AM Merited by JayJuanGee (1) |
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Dropping to $22k is so painful. Can't even haiku. So depressed...
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True Myth
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December 18, 2020, 12:24:50 AM |
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#stronghands +1 WOmerit for 5th element reference Hopping on the +1 WOmerit for 5th Element reference train. That was super green of you.
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philipma1957
Legendary
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Activity: 4186
Merit: 8169
'The right to privacy matters'
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December 18, 2020, 12:25:09 AM |
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Unbelievable, but the card worked this time too! Damn right cause we need to get to 28-30k to get proper correction. Then Proudhon will post that he is correct due to his math and science!
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