Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Richy_T]

I mean yeah I guess that sucks, but compare that to someone who ignored bitcoin and has $0 and none of their avoided investment lost and didnt pay those evil taxes (the freeloaders!)

Or compare it to the government who ignored bitcoin and has $200,000 of your wealth to spend from it because they decided that's the way it's going to be.

[lightfoot]

I'm mainly concerned about the capital gains on investments you didn't cash out. A million is more than anyone needs to live in a year.

That's a very different animal: Taxing bitcoin as property would be extremely bad, esp at a 48% rate per year. I don't think that is being proposed.

You don't pay for moving coins to a ledger anyway but not everyone will be 100% bitcoin when it goes above a million. Everyone in the US and on this forum may eventually get hit with the tax when bitcoin goes up combined with hyperinflation. Also, if the US goes to 43.8%, you can bet the EU will follow shortly. What happens when a million is equivalent to a current $100k because of inflation? Could happen in a few years at the current rate.

I think you do: If you move coins from an address to another then I thought it was a taxable event ("work" is being done, like those crazy Jewish sabbath rules). Maybe if it's not in your control, but if that's the case then the argument should be move coins around at will, tax when converted into fiat.

If you want to shift investments around, you still get hit with the tax even if you didn't take that money out to use. The effect of the tax is it forces everyone to be a holder even if they are holding a bad investment. Good for bitcoin not so good for stocks or companies. It's better for the economy if people can move their investments from shit companies to good companies as their performance fluctuates rather than be locked in due to a 43.8% hit by the government.

Agreed. This is something to work for. At that point it would be like a "tax free" 401k where you can move amounts around but are taxed on the ultimate withdrawls to fiat.

[Richy_T]

There is also a theory that a convergence of both systems (cap and comm) is actually occurring.

[Richy_T]

I'm actually semi seriously interested in tape backups. The tech for it has improved dramatically and it is still one of the highest density backup systems in the world, and the high end ones are not that slow too (but then, it's like a library with those arms and stuff).. Still, I'd like to have a single tape that backs up my stuff and stores maybe 20 TB or more by now. LTO-8 had 12 TB back in 2017.

Sony and IBM already had tape up to 185 TB in 2014.

I tried doing tape for a while. I found a 40/80 left in a PC for trash pickup at work. The problem is, I soon found my backup needs exceeding tape capacity and upgrading tape drives is *expensive*. Backing up to hard-drives is much more sustainable. I'd still do tape if money was no object or for a business but for personal use, prices would have to come down a lot.

[Richy_T]

CG is tricky. I've always found it annoying that my labor is taxed at a higher rate than luck+"incredible foresight to invest wisely" (when you come out ahead). Putting the two on a more even footing (they are all "work", some are physical, some are mental, some are a combo of both) always struck me as more fair, but your mileage may vary.

It's a trick question. Both are shitty.

[shahzadafzal]

Can we trust Fox News?



Don’t tell me they got this rumor from WO?

[Richy_T]

I think you do: If you move coins from an address to another then I thought it was a taxable event ("work" is being done, like those crazy Jewish sabbath rules). Maybe if it's not in your control, but if that's the case then the argument should be move coins around at will, tax when converted into fiat.

They could not tell anyway. The way Bitcoin transactions work, the "change" gets sent to a different address than it was sent from in a modern wallet (indeed, it's not possible to distinguish the spending part from the change part without more transactional data and advanced analytics)

[Richy_T]

Don’t tell me they got this rumor from WO?

Possibly CNN's "anonymous sources".

Rumors are not news, regardless.

[infofront]

Poll posted Apr. 16:



We'll see how that one turns out. I think it's time for a new poll though. First one to reply to this post gets to pick it 

[OutOfMemory]

Poll posted Apr. 16:



We'll see how that one turns out. I think it's time for a new poll though. First one to reply to this post gets to pick it 

tadaaa

[shahzadafzal]

Poll posted Apr. 16:



We'll see how that one turns out. I think it's time for a new poll though. First one to reply to this post gets to pick it 

Hey

[OutOfMemory]

Poll posted Apr. 16:



We'll see how that one turns out. I think it's time for a new poll though. First one to reply to this post gets to pick it  

Hey

 

@infofront: Pick it in terms of defining it, or picking one from a predefined set of (already prepared) polls?

[DaRude]

a good chunk will use single Facebook/Venmo/Paypal/CashApp/Google/Amazon/regional tech giant channel

The Bitcoin dream. 👍 Truly putting control of their money into the hands of the people.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Look around you, people are way too eager to sell their privacy for a tiny convenience, bitcoin is not capable of changing that mindset nor is it it's job. The last mile, so to speak, for majority would be mostly centralized, but not due to some restriction or government regulations, but simply due to human laziness. But that's fine, as long there's a free market and there are million of global "last mile providers" all competing unrestrictively that people can choose between, and there's always an option to be their own provider and run their own node should they choose to. That in itself would dramatically shift the banking system, PayPal node would not even consider restricting a single transaction if they knew all their users could easily switch to tencent/yandex/EU node instantaneously with just a simple click.    

[vapourminer]

You don't pay for moving coins to a ledger anyway but not everyone will be 100% bitcoin when it goes above a million. Everyone in the US and on this forum may eventually get hit with the tax when bitcoin goes up combined with hyperinflation. Also, if the US goes to 43.8%, you can bet the EU will follow shortly. What happens when a million is equivalent to a current $100k because of inflation? Could happen in a few years at the current rate.

I think you do: If you move coins from an address to another then I thought it was a taxable event ("work" is being done, like those crazy Jewish sabbath rules). Maybe if it's not in your control, but if that's the case then the argument should be move coins around at will, tax when converted into fiat.

nah moving corn between addys under your control is not taxable. its like when you top your hot wallet up or xfer to/from an exchange. the taxable event occurs when you finally convert btc to fiat or anything else (altcoin, gold, etc), not from the coin itself moving around.

[ivomm]

Can we trust Fox News?



Don’t tell me they got this rumor from WO?

It started with a tweet by Alister Milne:
RUMOUR: Facebook will annouce they hold #Bitcoin on their books when they release their quarterly results after trading closes tomorrow
— Alistair Milne (@alistairmilne) April 27, 2021

It was supposed to be a joke to see whether the market will move. It did not  Anyway, in 2.5h we will know for sure on their online presentation:
https://lumen.webcasts.com/viewer/event.jsp?ei=1448878&tp_key=6c820d0d7e

[shahzadafzal]

@infofront: Pick it in terms of defining it, or picking one from a predefined set of (already prepared) polls?

I was buying bitcoins!!

Your timestamp 1619633791
My timastmap 1619633792

Choose the poll... infofront didn’t put any conditions so it’s open for you.

[Lambie Slayer]

https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/us-home-prices-surged-12-yoy-most-7-years

I remember in 2014 when I first started trying to convert nocoiners into Bitcoin I would ask them about the ever rising prices in their daily lives and they seemed to be vaguely aware but usually minimized it by making it out to be a long term phenomenon and something that they need not worry over in the near term.

Fast forward to today and nocoiners are no longer resistant to the fact/idea that inflation is running rampant in the near term and most are upset about this and ready to embrace the teaching of the Lord and Savior King Bitcoin.

I mention rising prices now and they tell me I'm preaching to the choir and how hard it is on them.

 via Imgflip Meme Generator

The historical moment is ripe for the ascendance of the new King. Bitcoin is the metaphorical true Messiah of money sent to save the souls of nocoiners.

[OutOfMemory]

@infofront: Pick it in terms of defining it, or picking one from a predefined set of (already prepared) polls?

I was buying bitcoins!!

Your timestamp 1619633791
My timastmap 1619633792

Choose the poll... infofront didn’t put any conditions so it’s open for you.

Hmm, i'm still thinking...
No idea 

If you have a good poll on your mind, i'd let you choose.

[marcus_of_augustus]

Here we go.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-propose-1-8-trillion-plan-aimed-at-families-tax-hikes-for-wealthiest-americans-11619600400

BTW, if you spent $250 at the beginning of 2013, bought 20 btc and held 'them, you already ARE that rich bastard that "needs" to be taxed 43.4%+state tax if you sell to buy a house or a lake ( ).
It sucks to be Mr/Ms smarty pants.

Taxes are kind of a price to pay to live in a civilized society. In areas with low low tax rates and limited government they have other... issues and your protections against fraud and force are.... well less.

This is the modern socialist/statist big lie. It's a subjective statement with no hard evidence to back it up and is very convenient because you can justify almost any level of theft because who doesn't want 'a civilised society' right?

Many, many civilised nations, cities, principalities have thrived with very low taxes. If more taxes meant more 'civilisation' how is it that when socialist nations reach their end game taxes are at a maximum and the society is degenerating into a 'law of the jungle' eating the animals in the zoo state of chaos?

Worse it's used as a shabby, thinly-veiled, extortionist threat to justify more expansion of government waste. Hand over more money or we'll ruin the civilised society you built.

[Biodom]

You don't pay for moving coins to a ledger anyway but not everyone will be 100% bitcoin when it goes above a million. Everyone in the US and on this forum may eventually get hit with the tax when bitcoin goes up combined with hyperinflation. Also, if the US goes to 43.8%, you can bet the EU will follow shortly. What happens when a million is equivalent to a current $100k because of inflation? Could happen in a few years at the current rate.

I think you do: If you move coins from an address to another then I thought it was a taxable event ("work" is being done, like those crazy Jewish sabbath rules). Maybe if it's not in your control, but if that's the case then the argument should be move coins around at will, tax when converted into fiat.

nah moving corn between addys under your control is not taxable. its like when you top your hot wallet up or xfer to/from an exchange. the taxable event occurs when you finally convert btc to fiat or anything else (altcoin, gold, etc), not from the coin itself moving around.

You are right, it is not, but somehow Coinbase used to portray (in their tax docs?) the move from their account to your personal one as a sell.
Not sure if it still holds true.