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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26384425 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (174 posts by 3 users with 9 merit deleted.)
ChartBuddy
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June 10, 2021, 06:01:38 PM


Explanation
JayJuanGee
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June 10, 2021, 06:03:50 PM

[edited out]
It's clear the honey-badger is still the honey-badger and now it remains to be seen how it deals with capacity issues (I am obviously not as optimistic for LN as you are).

I doubt that "capacity issues" are as BIG and detrimental as you and the various dweeb twat BIG blockers had been making them out to be.  Some of that conversation about its not going to work and have to prepare our selves in advance blah blah had been and continue to be disingenuine nonsense to suggest that there is a need for a jumbo 747 to haul two passengers because some day there are going to be more passengers.. blah blah blah.

Seems way more practical to let the organic back and forth play out, including incentives for a fee market, and surely ability for easy propagation and transmission over unreliable networks and regular normie and poor peeps to validate the whole network remain quite important, rather than getting maniacally focused on dumb-ass overly-simplified purported and disingenuine solutions as if BIG blocks were ever really going to solve all the problems or needs for tweaking the system along the way without just creating a bloated attack vector rather than bringing actual utility and power to the peeps.. which bitcoin already does and likely will continue to do because it remains a people's network... rather than buying into some kind of BIG blocker nonsense and the various baggage that goes along with that either historical disingenuineness of the subject or even current ongoing attempts to bring up such already rebutted nonsense.

Just of note, I tend to deliberately keep that argument out of here.

Yep.. pretty lame richy_t... you seem smarter than that, but whatever.. your continuing on and on with such lame talking point seems a bit ridiculous.

It's not really relevant and tends to upset the natives.

It's called trolling when you do that.

I'll usually only bring it in where I think it's directly relevant and then only in relation to BTC itself (i.e. I'll discuss capacity but not in relation to other coins which have addressed it).

Who cares about other coins?  It is largely irrelevant because none of them are even close to having the same kind of transactional traffic and ongoing usage like bitcoin... so it largely seems irrelevant to assess some other nonsense coin that claims to have resolved the scaling problem, but then it has neither traffic nor ongoing attacks or other balances of adoption that bitcoin has.. so what's the point of making false comparisons except to just go on about gobble-dee-gook talking points that you already admit to largely being irrelevant (unless of course, if you might have some way to try to tie such topics into bitcoin with some kind of meaningful or relevant discussion rather than just spouting out bullshit like you say that you like to do in order to "rile the natives.")

And Satoshi had not anticipated ASICS (who knows if that later Satoshi email is real where "he" talks about exactly that) and that changed EVERYTHING.  It made the idea of the "validation node" important.  Vitally important.  We discovered by this tech that between hashing, and consensus validation the latter *might* be more important, though they go deeply hand in hand.

Maybe you should provide a link, cAPSLOCK, if you believe that either there is something important and relevant that satoshi supposedly said.. From what I recall, Satoshi disappeared around late 2010, but a lot of the BIG blocker disingenuine nonsense started to get worked up in late 2015 so it increasingly ramped up in the next couple of years without really going away completely even though it should have been clear that not ONLY was the issue resolved in such a way to show the BIG BLOCKERs as largely disingenuine retards, but also current BTC development is ongoingly finding balance in onchain and offchain transactions including having goals of having some of the fee market to develop around this matter to help to inform if there might be needs for tweaks that go above and beyond ongoing tweaks that are happening.


Anyway, i welcome discussing this, and would take part in another thread if it should not happen here.

Seems like a topic for another thread.  We have beat that topic to death so much over the years, and I hardly see what good comes from talking about such topic that you continue to believe as relevant, including your attempt to insert it into relevancy in the taproot activation thread.

I recall that you have always a bit more of a stiffy (relatively speaking) when it comes to believing that there is some kind of need to plan ahead for increases in BTC usage and concerns that both first layer solutions are not sufficiently anticipating increases in BTC usage (including perhaps disagreeing with having onchain fees that attempt to adapt to how quickly transactions might go through) and that various second layer solutions are not going to be enough to handle anticipated increases in BTC usage.. blah blah blah.

...

JJG 579188

I recently had my first physical exam as it had been a while, and I'm getting older...  

Aren't we all getting older?

Among the many things we discussed was his preoccupation with our HUGE problem with various elites (esp. .gov) LYING about so much.  He was very disheartened, and it's not just goobermint, it's so much else.  Well, yeah, Doc.  A Culture of Lies.  Ugh.

You may have to go have a beer (or maybe a cigarrette) with your doc.

It's quite difficult to really explore topics in such a short conversation, and sometimes the blame on the government might be misplaced, even though for sure medical doctors have so many issues with standards of care compliance that even take away from their abilities to really exercise very much discretion - which likely frustrates them on a daily basis.. but then they learn to live with it... so sure, is that a blame the government issue?  Perhaps.

Our conversation crystallized something for me.  I believe even less what I am told, especially by the MSM, .gov officials, Banksters, etc.

Of course, any of us are going to gain some level of empowerment by not relying too much on experts and having some knowledge of various topics whether we are talking with our mechanic or our accountant, and many of us might either not know where to start in terms of trying to learn about so many topics, and sometimes we do not have access to good information, either, so of course, if we are able to develop good critical thinking skills, that would be very helpful, but frequently we also come across a lot of people in the real world who think that they have good critical thinking skills, but instead of following one dweeb, they follow another, and it is not easy to think for your self or to bank for yourself, and surely there may be some needs to attempt to balance and to learn along the way.. and then sometimes, you just gotta admit that you have to rely on others for some things (representations of facts, logic and sometimes conclusions, too).

But, my Dr. sure ain't perfect, even with the points we discussed.  He refused to give Rx's for Ivermectin and HCQ.  We're vaccinated, but we know MOAR pandemics are coming.  Yet he would not allow me to get them (and yes I know that they may not work, but that ought to be my decision).  Grrr...

Of course, sometimes we are overly protected, but it is not easy to figure out a kind of proper balance.  I am not sure if we would want to live in a world without doctors who are able to advise and maybe keep people away from certain drugs without a prescription, but sure there are likely some drugs that should not require a prescription.. .. and sometimes if drugs are newer, they might have more restrictions than drugs that have been around longer.. so there is likely balance there, too.. . 
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June 10, 2021, 06:04:33 PM

https://twitter.com/jeetsidhu_/status/1402820322588569601

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June 10, 2021, 06:14:11 PM

But you bring up cell phone processors.

That's because that's what RPis use. Intended to provide an operating system for small, lightweight devices. Design parameters that are totally irrelevant for being able to validate the blockchain. Also no SATA interface which makes a difference since validation is very IO bound. Better a small PC or Intel architecture based SBC. An obsolete dust-laden PC from the shelves of Goodwill would be a better device for those purposes.

And I do understand that the big-blockers see small blocks as a bank takeover.

Some do, some don't. Certainly there are some connections in there but how relevant they are is unclear. I know I'm no fan of Blockstream and I think they have their own motivations. Certainly they appear to be a company which has spent a lot of money with little income. I suspect that's behind their hashrate selling shenanigans recently.
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June 10, 2021, 06:21:19 PM

[snip]
If you made any points to address, I might have something to write here.

(The reason it started to become an issue in 2015 was that blocks were beginning to get close to being full. Which came to fruition in early 2016)
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June 10, 2021, 06:36:45 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?
OutOfMemory
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June 10, 2021, 06:41:50 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

Hey there.
Things went Up and down, as usual  Grin
More down lately, though  Roll Eyes
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June 10, 2021, 06:50:45 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

A country accepts bitcoin as legal tender yet the price barely moves. I would have thought this would be a rocket launching event.
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June 10, 2021, 06:54:00 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

A country accepts bitcoin as legal tender yet the price barely moves. I would have thought this would be a rocket launching event.

While we already know that fast moves upward don't usually sustain higher level prices.
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June 10, 2021, 06:54:15 PM
Merited by xhomerx10 (1), Paashaas (1), shahzadafzal (1)



#soon-ish
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June 10, 2021, 06:54:49 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

Hello back brother
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June 10, 2021, 06:58:06 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

A country accepts bitcoin as legal tender yet the price barely moves. I would have thought this would be a rocket launching event.

While we already know that fast moves upward don't usually sustain higher level prices.

Someone told me…. People overrating news in BTC-world, expecting to much cause of news, the Trent will go up cause of all the bullish news but not always instant on news….

Though I thought the same instant launch 😂
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June 10, 2021, 06:59:57 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

laser eyes everywhere..rings of fire...volcanoes and..  the first sovereign nation on the planet to accept bitcoin as legal tender...eh..you know...its going  
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June 10, 2021, 07:01:26 PM


Explanation
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June 10, 2021, 07:10:41 PM
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The white paper is always brought up. And Satoshi had not anticipated ASICS (who knows if that later Satoshi email is real where "he" talks about exactly that) and that changed EVERYTHING.  It made the idea of the "validation node" important.  Vitally important.  We discovered by this tech that between hashing, and consensus validation the latter *might* be more important, though they go deeply hand in hand.


Many would have been happy with cautious size increases. There's no real justification behind the 1MB (as would be expected from it being implemented as an anti-DOS measure when blocks were tiny) and the theoretical maximum while still maintaining your goals is much higher than that.

I'd advise not getting wrapped up in Raspberry Pis. They are cool devices and I own many but they are not optimal for this kind of service by any means. They are radically underpowered and even within the realms of SBCs, there are more powerful options available. It's not a binary choice between cell phone processors from the early 2010s and supercomputers in datacenters.

I also disagree with the usefulness of "validation nodes". They don't have zero value but they're not as useful as people think and they're certainly not worth crippling the network for just so people can run them on sub-par hardware. If your security is worth $40 per transaction, it's certainly worth more than a $40 computer.

I am among those who thinks reasonable blocksize increases would be a good thing.  I actually pointed out in the taproot activation thread here that the unsung best part of that being done well is it proves that Bitcoin can govern itself better than many had feared after the 2017 fight.  And I even mentioned that this (though a much more popular change) gave me hope that some day we could revisit block size increases as well.

As to nodes on RPis etc.  I agree it is a silly arbitrary measure to make that what we should be able to run a node on, although I do run a Pi 4, which it must be said is not a terribly under powered SBC, and is a requirement if you want to run a node, as anything below that cannot validate the chain fast enough to be useful.

But you bring up cell phone processors.  I think in some ways that is a more important measure.  Things like SPV, and neutrino are important ways to bring trust minimized validation to handheld computers, and i think in those regards we are going the right direction.

I think all the Luke Dashjr type "BLOCKS NEED TO BE SMALLER" arguments are misguided and do us harm.  I think Luke is a trainwreck as a person who takes a very extreme view on EVERYTHING.  The current Pope is an antichrist, the blocks are too big, we need to wear gas masks to keep from getting covid etc.  That combined with the dick measuring contest that the dark side of BTC Maxi culture brings us, and the small block ethos gets more attention than I think it needs.

I wish we had Hal with us still.  I feel like he would have some really good stuff to say about all this.  In fact I would trust him more than Satoshi himself, who I do not think quite had the long view or wisdom of the former.  Maybe it's better they are both currently silent (here's to cryogenics? Wink )

I do think validation is perhaps more important than you do.  I do not want to trust that job to a small number of servers.  But I think we could raise the bar quite a bit before we get into trouble there.  I just want to make sure we avoid a "Davos" of Bitcoin forming.  Some place where the powerful nodes all gather and decide one day that it is in the best interest of mankind to mint another 21mm, and for our trouble we will split a simple 1mm amongst ourselves to cover costs, of course.

Every human endeavor has become corrupted that way eventually.  The longer we can keep that from happening to Bitcoin the better.  And I do understand that the big-blockers see small blocks as a bank takeover.  I just don't see that.  Banks don't need small blocks to remain necessary.

Perhaps a benefit of having a programmer background rather than a trader, whenever feeling doubts about Bitcoin regarding functionality I look at the source code, specifically latest commits to get a sense of what's going on. Sure, developers can go nuts (most of us are in some way), but as taught early on based on what pioneers (miners, testers, API enthusiasts, etc.) wrote in this forum (when it was still bitcoin.org); if the core developers got a crazy idea we just refused to upgrade the Bitcoin clients, or kept personal forks with whatever selection we liked, as long as core protocol still worked, this tradition of "opposing change" eventually spawned into the BIP system and agreement process used these days. If the core developers really disagree internally, we get a fork where client version usage on the network eventually dictates the outcome (like the Bitcoin Cash fork).

Regarding ASIC mining, I have fond memories of backing Butterfly labs in 2013 even when most users in this forum had doubts, they eventually pulled through producing the first ASIC ever made after several delays, though the controversy was wild to say the least. I wasn't just a miner back then, had an online shop selling modchips for game consoles  accepting Bitcoin since 2011 (so it wasn't just alpaca socks).
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June 10, 2021, 07:19:40 PM
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What is he really talking about? And what real problems? Problems with bitcoin or problems in the real world. If he mean problems in the real world I would agree. Now for the matter of fact if not all then surely every other project starts with a problem in bitcoin and tries to solve it with their on token or coin that's a logical fallacy.

To be honest haven't seen a single project which solely aiming to solve any real world problem. I remember in 2017/2018 there was one project WPR or WePower which claimed to be green energy based solution. To be honest I thought they will be building windmills or other green energy sources for public use not to run their own so called "trading platform". I'm not even sure where they stand today.

Anyway solving a real-world problem and claiming to solve it are two different things. Until now we haven't seen any single such claim going through yet.
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June 10, 2021, 07:29:08 PM



What is he really talking about? And what real problems? Problems with bitcoin or problems in the real world. If he mean problems in the real world I would agree. Now for the matter of fact if not all then surely every other project starts with a problem in bitcoin and tries to solve it with their on token or coin that's a logical fallacy.

To be honest haven't seen a single project which solely aiming to solve any real world problem. I remember in 2017/2018 there was one project WPR or WePower which claimed to be green energy based solution. To be honest I thought they will be building windmills or other green energy sources for public use not to run their own so called "trading platform". I'm not even sure where they stand today.

Anyway solving a real-world problem and claiming to solve it are two different things. Until now we haven't seen any single such claim going through yet.

In the example, Namecoin includes a domain name system for internet besides being a "coin", although the project is pretty much sleeping these days AFAIK. I also regard Litecoin as old school serving the purpose of having useful differences such as faster transactions, using bcrypt instead of SHA256, etc., but sure, Bitcoin maxis are welcome to disagree.
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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June 10, 2021, 07:34:44 PM


-1 WO for that.

-2 WO for that one.. 


nope

it has already been established that WOsMerit's are completely fungible...there will be no demeriting

you are of course free to burn any awarded WOsMerit's thereby reducing the amounts in circulation and potentially increasing their value

wait.. theres a BURN ADDY (or forum account number perhaps) that we can send merits to and be burnt? like if i want to merit JJG but am in a bad mood i can send a merit meant for him to a NULL type account?

maybe we need a user named "merit burn" (or whatever) setup by theymos and its has but one  post labeled BURN MERITS HERE in some section. you merit that post to burn them and explain why in thje thread.

so. theres my totally stupid thought for the day. more to come of course.
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June 10, 2021, 07:41:57 PM

I'm a bit late to the party but congrats to El Salvador and all Salvadoreans. The president of that country is a brave guy with a huge pair...  Cool
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June 10, 2021, 07:49:03 PM

Hello gentlemen. How have things been going?

Nothing much just a regular bitcoin domination against central banks!!!
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