Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[bitserve]

Now that it seems we are getting back to "normal" there is something I would like to discuss... While most (almost all of it) of my Bitcoin is "physical", for tax reasons I do tend to do most of my BTFD using ETP/ETN's (AFAIK there is no ETF available yet in europe, please correct me if I am wrong) using the following "funds":

TRACKERS (ETFS)

ETC Group Physical Bitcoin
XET | BTCE | DE000A27Z304 | EUR

VanEck Bitcoin ETN
XET | VBTC | DE000A28M8D0 | EUR

CoinShares Physical Bitcoin
XET | BITC | GB00BLD4ZL17 | EUR

CoinShares Physical Bitcoin
TDG | BITC | GB00BLD4ZL17 | EUR

21Shares Bitcoin ETP
XET | 21XB | CH0454664001 | EUR

21Shares Short Bitcoin ETP
XET | 21XS | CH0514065058 | EUR

WisdomTree Bitcoin ETN
XET | WBIT | GB00BJYDH287 | EUR

Fidelity Physical Bitcoin ETP
XET | FBTC | XS2434891219 | EUR


At the moment I don't really have any criteria (apart from "diversifying"... in a totally random way) about which of them to buy each time. ie: sometimes a new one comes to life so I buy some of it, other times I add more of one or several of them, etc...

That is because two reasons:

1- In comparison to my physical holdings it is not that much money I am throwing at it (single digit percent at the most).

2- ... So I haven't really devoted much time to do a through comparison between them.

So... Here I am asking for the wisdom of the WO.... Do you euro guys have any preference or criteria about any of them? Have anyone taken the time to really compare them? Do you guys follow any diversifying strategy? What are your favorite picks, if any?

Again, I am doing this for tax reasons... the alternative, for me, would be not to buy anything anymore because I live in a country where FIFO is the only available option and, at current rate, I (hope) probably will never fully "cycle" all my corn... so this is my only way to do some reasonable "trading" with less tax impact (I can trade those separately of my "real" Bitcoin).

Also I do still buy some physical sometimes... but those go to the hodl "forever" wallet. So please don't try to "enlighten" me about the differences between physical and derivatives, because I know them well and it is the difference between each of those derivatives what I am really interested to know.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Biodom]

Now that it seems we are getting back to "normal" there is something I would like to discuss... While most (almost all of it) of my Bitcoin is "physical", for tax reasons I do tend to do most of my BTFD using ETP/ETN's (AFAIK there is no ETF available yet in europe, please correct me if I am wrong) using the following "funds":

TRACKERS (ETFS)

ETC Group Physical Bitcoin
XET | BTCE | DE000A27Z304 | EUR

VanEck Bitcoin ETN
XET | VBTC | DE000A28M8D0 | EUR

CoinShares Physical Bitcoin
XET | BITC | GB00BLD4ZL17 | EUR

CoinShares Physical Bitcoin
TDG | BITC | GB00BLD4ZL17 | EUR

21Shares Bitcoin ETP
XET | 21XB | CH0454664001 | EUR

21Shares Short Bitcoin ETP
XET | 21XS | CH0514065058 | EUR

WisdomTree Bitcoin ETN
XET | WBIT | GB00BJYDH287 | EUR

Fidelity Physical Bitcoin ETP
XET | FBTC | XS2434891219 | EUR


At the moment I don't really have any criteria (apart from "diversifying"... in a totally random way) about which of them to buy each time. ie: sometimes a new one comes to life so I buy some of it, other times I add more of one or several of them, etc...

That is because two reasons:

1- In comparison to my physical holdings it is not that much money I am throwing at it (single digit percent at the most).

2- ... So I haven't really devoted much time to do a through comparison between them.

So... Here I am asking for the wisdom of the WO.... Do you euro guys have any preference or criteria about any of them? Have anyone taken the time to really compare them? Do you guys follow any diversifying strategy? What are your favorite picks, if any?

Again, I am doing this for tax reasons... the alternative, for me, would be not to buy anything anymore because I live in a country where FIFO is the only available option and, at current rate, I (hope) probably will never fully "cycle" all my corn... so this is my only way to do some reasonable "trading" with less tax impact (I can trade those separately of my "real" Bitcoin).

Also I do still buy some physical sometimes... but those go to the hodl "forever" wallet. So please don't try to "enlighten" me about the differences between physical and derivatives, because I know them well and it is the difference between each of those derivatives what I am really interested to know.

Just as a comment: IBIT and BTC are missing: IBIT is a fund from blackrock that got most of the flow and is most liquid, probably. BTC-is a new fund from Greyscale with lowest yearly fee (just 0.15%).

I am personally invested in a mix of IBIT and FBTC now (eventually, will trade some IBIT for BTC fund to make it 1:1:1).
Trading in those has nothing to do with regular bitcoin in a sense that FIFO would apply to each pile separately even though they are called "physical" bitcoin ETFs.
One great potential is that you don't need to wait 30 days after a loss trade to re-buy (which is a rule in US for taking losses) because you can always buy a similar fund.

[bitserve]

Just as a comment: IBIT and BTC are missing: IBIT is a fund from blackrock that got most of the flow and is most liquid, probably. BTC-is a new fund from Greyscale with lowest yearly fee (just 0.15%).

I am personally invested in a mix of IBIT and FBTC now (eventually, will trade some IBIT for BTC fund to make it 1:1:1).
Trading in those has nothing to do with regular bitcoin in a sense that FIFO would apply to each pile separately even though they are called "physical" bitcoin ETFs.
One great potential is that you don't need to wait 30 days after a loss trade to re-buy (which is a rule in US for taking losses) because you can always buy a similar fund.

Yeah, that is my reason for using those derivatives...

About the ones you are suggesting, I think those are not available in Europe... certainly not in DEGIRO which is the platform I am currently using... though I could use another one if those funds were available...

I have been able to easily find better comparisons about the US ETF's (which are NOT available here) than the EUR ones... Which I think are the only ones available to me, unfortunately.

[degxtra1]

Why the price is just bouncing back? If nothing has changed..... Very strange.... Super short bulltrap?

Bouncing back like nothing happened ….?? LoL

Shorts cashing out before it's too late?

asking same question. and all this cash to rebuy at one post earlier mentioned.
Life puts us sometimes in a front of serious and cruel dillemas..

[El duderino_]

Just bc it’s been a long time

[JayJuanGee]

Well, crashing to 52K wasn't on my bingo card.

But hey at least I'm a wholecoiner now.

Holy shit! What a massacre! Frankly, I don't remember anything like that happening during a bull season.

So, the paperhand japs are selling because their markets are f*cked, billionaires want a final squeeze and cheap coins?

I. Need. Hopium.  

It's all good, don't worry. This is just another Covid crash scenario, wait till you see the price in a years time, you'll be planning which island to buy.

Scenes when Bitcoin breaks 100K in November

One thing is getting to whole coiner status.  Another thing is staying there, if that might happend to be a possible goal.

I think that there are several of us longer term bitcoiners who have accumulated a certain number of coins, yet at the same time, we may well be monitoring that we keep a certain number of coins in our stash too.. so that we might have a kind of "working capital" and then a kind of stored away stash that might be less likely to be touching. .or maybe it is earmarked to be touched at certain later dates (or potentially certain later prices).

Congratulations German goverment for dumping their bag at the top.

ONLY if they buy back in.

If they do not buy back in, then it seems that their dumping point is going to still look like the bottom rather than your wishful-thinking presumption of the top.

Let's see Paashaas.  Let's see.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[philipma1957]

buddy another drop? retest that bottom?

[Ambatman]

How many times on a day as today

Do people refresh the bitcoin/crypto prices …?
Is there anymore of internet sites that are being refresht today?

On days like these, I usually don't look at the BTC price.. not even once.

I try to just have a normal day in the world of JJG.. and without any looking at any ole boring and depressing BTC prices... or any of those kinds of debbie downer things.

My own ways keep me cheery if I don't look at the price.  (I know I should have had put a "protip" in there somewhere)

Unfortunately Chartbuddy doesn't care.
It gives you what he receives without remorse.

People are stupid, takes a long time for them to wake up. We are the very early adopters.

I think most of the sales are by individuals who were trying to ride with the Halving and the ETF hype
Guess the hands can't stand still.

This reminds me of the FTX dip
How I sold and later regretted
Now I'm doing the opposite
Couldn't catch the$49K but did pick some around $51K
Spare kept Incase there's more on the way
and gonna try placing Chartbuddy on ignore for now 

[OgNasty]

Just bc it’s been a long time

I’m sure this is in bad taste (since when does that stop me) but didn’t this guy and his brother vaccinate themselves to death during covid? I thought I remembered reading that but who knows what is true nowadays. I also thought they were insanely rich right? Still crazy they did that their faces.

How many times on a day as today

Do people refresh the bitcoin/crypto prices …?
Is there anymore of internet sites that are being refresht today?

I’ve got 2 TVs in my living room. The 85” is usually playing podcasts from YouTube and the 65” is set to display bitcointicker.co as I go about my day.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[vapourminer]

Just bc it’s been a long time

I’m sure this is in bad taste (since when does that stop me) but didn’t this guy and his brother vaccinate themselves to death during covid? I thought I remembered reading that but who knows what is true nowadays. I also thought they were insanely rich right? Still crazy they did that their faces.

err these guys?

The Bogdanoff twins were both hospitalized, at the Georges Pompidou European Hospital in Paris,[57] in critical condition on 15 December 2021, after contracting COVID-19. Grichka died on 28 December,[58] and Igor died six days later, on 3 January 2022.[59] They were 72 and both were intentionally unvaccinated.[60][61][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_and_Grichka_Bogdanoff#Deaths

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com